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File 132897470667.png - (1.07MB , 1920x1080 , xVxb2 - Imgur.png )
33758 No. 33758
http://ponykart.net

Last thread >>15892

Please read http://ponykart.net/faq before asking questions!

Sweet Apple Acres trailer: www.youtube.com/watch?v=dD2TbtxjTho
Unspoiler all text  • Expand all images  • Reveal spoilers
>> No. 33761
I was wondering how often you plan to update ponykart.net :)
I have it bookmarked and check for news there atleast once a day, just in case.
I know it's relatively early in development so I don't expect it, but it's just a thought :)
>> No. 33762
>>33761
probably only when we finished stuff we think is worth showing off or talking about. I'd suggest using an RSS reader instead
>> No. 33777
>>33762

new kart models would be nice.

>hint hint.
>> No. 33780
File 132899725732.png - (38.05KB , 165x156 , Toph_Hey_Look_Money.png )
33780
>>33762
I'm interested in the music. How far along do you think that is?
>> No. 33782
>>33758
if i knew more about modeling id be glad to help, but i did use to know a good bit about improving textures, i did a good bit of work for the empire at war modding community
>> No. 33783
File 132900083685.png - (363.81KB , 640x480 , TS_v2_render13_angle4.png )
33783
>>33777
we're making good progress on dash's, but it's not finished yet

twi's kart got a new engine

>>33780
not much further since we don't really have any music that needs to be made at the moment!

>>33782
we've got enough team members for now, sorry
>> No. 33789
File 132901598477.png - (97.55KB , 311x363 , Toph_And_I_Am_Right.png )
33789
>>33783
Oh wow! So you're "fairly" up to date in terms of music. I'm impressed. You guys are keeping busy! Also...

Is that a flux capacitor? Pretty ballin! Can't wait to get a sneak peek at Dash's
>> No. 33897
>>33783

nice reference to the upcoming episode.

Rainbow should have kart that runs on rainbow.
>> No. 33916
>>33897
It's not a reference to the new episode, the flux capacitor was there in the old build. Unless they made the reference from the future!..
>> No. 33917
>>33916
If they have a flux capacitor it is quite possible they did.
>> No. 33962
>>33783
OH GOD THE FLUX CAPACITOR
>> No. 33967
the flux capacitor was always there, guys!

also, an update video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyMSoaMMYyY
>> No. 33970
>>33967
I did try to tell them haha. People notice/don't notice the randomest stuff.

Love the vid. Concept art is great. :P
>> No. 33972
>>33967
Nice to see a fellow English brony.
I hardly know anypony from where I am (Hampshire) although I did find two more in my college last week :)
>> No. 33973
>>33967
Hah, the mountains are a pretty smart solution for your performance issues. I love those kind of "quick fixes".

Hope to see more of Whitetail Wood soon. Fall Weather Friends was my favorite episode in part because of the fall imagery.
>> No. 33976
>>33783
On the back, it looks like a flux capacitor.
>> No. 33977
>>33973
Yeah, if you look at pretty much every other kart game ever's tracks, they're all pretty much tunnels. Either they've got big cliffs on both sides, or one cliff on the side facing the rest of the track. There's always very few places where much of the rest of the track is visible
>> No. 33981
File 132918099078.png - (543.58KB , 810x810 , 91088 - celestia friendshipping hug hugging hugs Snails.png )
33981
Any plans to make secondary characters playable in the future? Like either of these two, Big Macintosh, Caramel, Cherilee, etc...
>> No. 33984
Looking forward to this, hugely.
>> No. 33985
>>33977

Game looks amazing so far, right down to the smallest details. Any chance of a playable demo before the actual release?
>> No. 33992
File 132919345635.png - (25.21KB , 129x151 , Toph_Shady_Like.png )
33992
>>33967
Amazing! The accent is rather nice I must admit. Excellent job on concept art, I'm rather impressed. This is turning into something beautiful.

>>33985
I thought the game was being released with the mane 6 and 4 tracks and then patched as time goes on. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
>> No. 34009
>>33985
you can compile the source code yourself and play it

>>33992
that's correct
>> No. 34013
File 132925706690.png - (101.51KB , 925x864 , BD-Angry.png )
34013
Whenever I click on the exe file to open the application, it says something about Ogre... Unable to create device...
I don't get it...
>> No. 34024
>>34013
install a directx 9 component
>> No. 34026
File 132927959942.png - (107.67KB , 250x265 , Toph_Shrug.png )
34026
>>34009
Booyah! and how will that happen? You'll do it through patching? Or just releasing another file?
>> No. 34050
>>34026
Something like that.
>> No. 34055
It's a long way off, I realise, but how will V/O be conducted?
Taking samples from the show is good 'an all, but surely there are some good Voice Actors in the community who can reel off fun and new dialogue.
>> No. 34096
File 132937011389.png - (28.38KB , 128x139 , Toph_Not_Impressed1.png )
34096
>>34050
>Proposes two options
>"Something like that"
Ok... So... both? Or the latter...?
>> No. 34107
File 132938504121.gif - (22.05KB , 945x945 , 1298247821782.gif )
34107
>>34096
>> No. 34137
File 132945371017.png - (154.20KB , 851x1615 , pinkie-tummyrubsplz.png )
34137
Has anypony successfully compiled the code yet?

I got Visual Studio 2010 Professional (x86) and MOGRE. Installed both of them, and no matter what I do or which folder of code I work with, when I try to debug it I get a "Mogre.dll not found" error.

Can anypony help? I'll let you rub Pinkie's tummy...
>> No. 34140
File 132945745950.png - (161.02KB , 407x341 , Toph_Rock_Angels.png )
34140
>>34107
Oh so it's one of those sensitive questions that you don't know yet :P
>> No. 34159
I'm not sure if this has been suggested already, but a Ponyville track would be a nice idea. With iconic places like Sugarcube Corner, Twilights Treehouse, Rarity's Boutique. Also could have random ponies crossing the street in some areas. Also would include a bridge that goes over a river of some sort.
>> No. 34162
>>34140
We pretty much just make it up as we go along. Fuck design documents!

>>34137
And you're sure the mogre.dll is being copied to the bin directory properly?

Is it not compiling at all or is it just not running?
>> No. 34171
File 132948936714.jpg - (11.20KB , 250x250 , aj_=D.jpg )
34171
Thought I'd say that this is one of the most promising fangames I've seen yet, and I've seen plenty. Can't tell you how excited I am for the final product, because it looks beautiful!

As for level sorting: My suggestion would be to include a "cup" system like Mario Kart has, including around four or five with the initial download and releasing more as expansion packs after the fact.
>> No. 34176
>>34162
I hear that. :)
>> No. 34184
File 132951979569.png - (149.22KB , 351x372 , Toph_Lets_Try_And_Be_Reasonable.png )
34184
>>34159
I think this is a good concept. I would like to see it implemented into the game if possible.

>>34162
That's the best type of games yo! They're completely from the imagination, fueled by creativity. Screw designs that are set in stone.
>> No. 34191
File 132952444791.jpg - (163.32KB , 640x480 , Jolly Good Show Steven Magnet Edition.jpg )
34191
>>34162
I just now got it to work, actually! Turns out the filenames can't have spaces. I should have known; that's a constant source of problems. I stuck the code folder in the root of my drive instead of on the desktop and was able to compile a debug and release exe.

Looking really great so far! Too bad my crappy, 2002 graphics card can't handle Sweet Apple Acres at more then 3 fps. :P

I would make a list of things that need to be fixed/improved, but I know it's a work in progress so I won't bother. It'll probably all be changed eventually.

I was excited for this before, but much more so now that I can see it in action. Will definitely be checking out the source every few days. :)
>> No. 34193
>>34191
if you go to %appdata%/ponykart/options.ini, you can turn down some settings to make it run better.

Try lowering the resultion, turning ShadowDetail to None, and ModelDetail to Low.
>> No. 34194
>>34191
and I think the problem with the filename was missing some quote marks in the build events - I added some, hopefully it should work with filenames with spaces now!
>> No. 34220
File 132959228865.png - (128.49KB , 1280x1024 , desktopbuildfailure.png )
34220
>>34193
>>34194

With shadows off, low model detail and 640x480 resolution, I get... 12fps! I don't think this computer is cut out for it. :P Luckily, I have one besides my main desktop that does games a lot better.

The filename problem doesn't seem to be fixed yet. Trying to build from my desktop failed with the same error messages, but it still works from the root of my drive.

If you look at the screenshot, error 4 is what tipped me off to the spaces problem. The warnings are just about some functions that weren't called.

By the way, I know you said you had things handled in the bug finding department, but I'd be glad to test the builds for you guys, if you'd like.
>> No. 34223
Hey can you guys tweak it so it will build in mono on linux I really want to try this but you have two small windows specific portions of the code >.>
>> No. 34226
File 132960198067.png - (126.84KB , 260x409 , Toph_Me.png )
34226
>>34220
This is one of my concerns... My comp is pathetic...
>> No. 34230
>>34226
What's your computer like?

Mine is REALLY pathetic, compared to anything bought in the last 4-6 years.

2.8ghz Pentium 4, 1.5gigs of RAM, and an old 256mb PCI video card.
It was all put together from other computers, and literally no two pieces (except the processor and motherboard) came from the same computer. Everything in it is so mismatched and dated, it hardly runs anything well.
>> No. 34232
File 132960579783.png - (87.28KB , 276x279 , Toph_Im_Pretty_Sure_This_Is_An_Apple.png )
34232
>>34230
2.0 ghz Pentium dual core thinger
3 Gigs of RAM

And my video card is pretty old.

I might be able to run it but you never know.
>> No. 34234
>>34220
yeah, SVN's being dildos at the moment, but if you open up the ponykart project properties thing and go to the build events section, make sure there are quote marks around all of the "$(__Dir)" things

But yeah all of the trees are the huge bottleneck on SAA. On the next map, whitetail woods, we're gonna make sure we won't have any parts where we're trying to render the whole rest of the track at once

>>34223
the graphics engine wrapper won't work on mono full stop, so removing the windows-specific stuff wouldn't make any difference.

besides
>only using linux
>expecting to play most games
>> No. 34266
Slightly off topic, but I realised just how good this graphic style would be for a 3D pokemon game.
>> No. 34280
You guys could perhaps trix around a little on SAA by making the trees more low poly the further they are away from the main track, ending with the ones on the horizon being just flat images. I assume that might perhaps help a little, not an expert though, but a lot of games seem to do that stuff sometimes to get a few more fps.
I might have to rewatch the trailer, not sure if you're already doing this sort of thing.
>> No. 34295
File 132968557577.png - (156.58KB , 333x370 , ahll do it.png )
34295
>>34266
Or a 3D Pony game, am I right? Am I right?
...Ah nevermind.
>> No. 34302
File 132969135099.png - (25.05KB , 130x146 , Toph_Lucy.png )
34302
>>34280
That could really help out. Though I think they mentioned in the update video that the tracks aren't fully rendered at all times. I might be completely wrong though so go check it for yourself.

>>34266
I agree.
>> No. 34306
>>34280
That's LoD, or level of depth stuff, and it wouldn't really work with how we currently do trees, since we basically stick all of the trees into a huge mesh and then render that. I do have all of the trees split up into regions though, and if you're on medium graphics settings the far-off trees turn into billboards.
>> No. 34317
File 132970259613.png - (387.89KB , 1280x720 , pinkie_Iusethispictoomuch.png )
34317
Another way to improve processing would be to display the high-polygon models of large objects only when the player/camera is reasonably close to them, and display a simplified version otherwise.
>> No. 34320
>>34317
the rest of the scene isn't the problem though, it's the trees.

We'll probably end up redoing SAA anyway eventually because it's so badly designed
>> No. 34323
>>34320

OK, just throwin' it out there.
>> No. 34331
File 132971134260.png - (165.07KB , 512x384 , Toph_Melon_Lord.png )
34331
>>34320
Gasp! Redoing it again? But it was pretty much the exact shape of Moo moo farm!

>Now that I think about it... It kind of is. Minus the jump.
>> No. 34523
I love what you guys have been doing with PonyKart and I was wondering if I could get some pointers for how to start up my own project, and maybe even some places to look for team members. At the moment I'm just looking for a concept artist to draw characters as well as a good 3D modeler, animator, and texturer.
I really want to get this right.
>> No. 34524
File 132996714199.png - (166.07KB , 332x384 , Toph_Momo_Interesting.png )
34524
>>34523
Just make a collab thread about it. I'm sure you can find some people willing to hop on board :D

I have no outstanding talents minus my massive bucket of ideas that I call a brain. But you probably don't even need that so I'm useless :P
>> No. 34540
>>34523
assuming you're doing programming, use placeholders until you've got enough stuff to show off, then recruit people

EqD probably won't post it until it actually looks nice, and most of my team members either came from old forums I visited ages ago, various people from dA, or just found our website and emailed us there, so I'm not sure what to tell you for that part
>> No. 34542
>>34523
You either get really lucky, or have something pretty substantial to get people interested.

Lets just say only one of those you can control. Let's be more specific and say that the luck isn't the one you can control. Let's go slightly further and say that basically without a proof of concept (as Hoppip said, something that kinda works but with placeholder graphics) you will be very lucky to find people who are free to work on your project and skilled enough to make it good.

This is only because of the huge amount of projects out there that ate up a lot of the skilled motivated people. /collab/ IS a good place to start, but your project will get buried unless you can show something nowadays!
>> No. 34545
>>34523
Get something good to show to get people interested to work with you, if you want to find people online.
Best solution is to get people you know personally.
>> No. 34548
>I was wondering if I could get some pointers for how to start up my own project

Well, I could tell you what NOT to do, as I've noticed there's a lot of things that can make people here angry and if you want to make a good impression you shouldn't go around pressing everypony's berserker buttons by accident.

First of all, remember that "Help me" means "Hey guys, how I do this."
It does NOT means "Hey guys, this is what I want, now do it... now." as too many people thinks that /collab/ is their personal army and servants cache.

Second, try to show the full extent of your skills on your first post rather than opening a thread claiming you are making a new project that only exists in your head. Remember, your first post counts as your introduction card, and if you come here emptyhanded, everypony will just shrugh you off.

Third, be humble and polite. Remember, you came here to ask a favour, so acting smug or agressive will get you nowhere and will make people ignore you fror good.

Fourth, never, EVER use the word "placeholder graphics" as I've noticed it's a huge berserker button for everypony here: I've seen too many people posting an "epic" RPG that consists of some crappy game maker or rpg maker template (with absolutely no pony graphics on sight) and expect immediate praise for something that took them five minutes to do and have hyped up to kingdom come.

Fifth, remember that "coding skills" in RPG Maker or Game Maker are worth absolutely nothing, as these programs hold your hand all the time, are full of preset limitations and are the laughing stock of any real programmer: way too many people have come here demanding praise for their epic CODE and being huge jerks in general, so people automatically tends to ignore anypony who uses the word "code" as their introduction card.

And finally, be patient. Very, very patient.
The number of talented people available here is very, very limited and lots of people tries to put them to work on their own projects, so they simply can't be everywhere at once- and they tend to be a bit wary, as the huge number of requests can be annoying for them. So if you start a project thread and nopony joins, try to wait a bit before self bumping the thread or start asking why everypony is ignoring you.

For better examples of what NOT to do, try browsing older threads and see how some people's egos made them get on everypony's nerves and earn lots of hate right off the bat.
>> No. 34550
>>34548
>Fifth, remember that "coding skills" in RPG Maker or Game Maker are worth absolutely nothing, as these programs hold your hand all the time, are full of preset limitations and are the laughing stock of any real programmer: way too many people have come here demanding praise for their epic CODE and being huge jerks in general, so people automatically tends to ignore anypony who uses the word "code" as their introduction card.
While I agree that game/RPG maker should never be used for a large serious game, they're great for people who've never done game development before and just want to make something simple to get started learning game dev basics. Sure you don't get your hands very dirty, but they're a nice little introduction to the whole process of game dev.
Plus if you finish something in it, it shows that you're more than yet another "ideas guy"!
>> No. 34562
>>34550
> they're great for people who've never done game development before and just want to make something simple

Yep.
See our Fighting is Magic game for what can be done by people who are not programmers and don't know any 'code'. Nothing wrong at all with hand-holding engines, just don't claim to be a programmer based solely on that :)
>> No. 34577
>>34545
"Get something good to show to get people interested to work with you"
Would you consider this a good starting point?
http://youtu.be/PtohYUsD7t4
The animation itself is just a placeholder. Most of my time so far has been spent trying to figure out how to get animations into Skyrim.
I suppose I should have mentioned it's going to be a Skyrim mod. (Though by no means a small one!)

>>34550
I'm pretty sure I know what kind of talent I need to get this to work.I just need help actually getting the team started.

I have experience in programming, and I'm actually majoring in game design, so I know a bit about how that works (though, admittedly, not much), but I've only had 3ds Max for about three weeks now, I have no prior experience in 3D modelling or animation, and I've been plowing through tutorials and Skyrim modding threads trying to figure out how things work.

You guys have been a real help to me. Thank you very much! I'll be sure to polish what I have so far and make a thread about it as soon as I have something a bit more presentable.
>> No. 34584
>>34577
Seems like you'll do just fine with that. Good luck on your project!

Now then... Ponies in karts? Anypony?
>> No. 34613
File 133009933696.jpg - (144.30KB , 1280x720 , Ponykart 2012-02-22 20-24-23-08.jpg )
34613
>>34584
not really much else to show!
>> No. 34617
>>34613

Reminds me of SNES Rainbow Road, that.
>> No. 34623
File 133012220384.png - (62.42KB , 227x244 , Toph_Quagsire2.png )
34623
>>34613
Fancy! Wonder if you're going to do anything with that :P
>> No. 34655
>>34617
Textures look like placeholders to me.
>> No. 34666
File 133017599499.jpg - (0.97MB , 1500x1250 , RoseScarf.jpg )
34666
>>34655

Same. It looks... kind of strange to me?
>> No. 34668
>>34613
Any real use for those numbers, Hoppip?
>> No. 34675
it's just a placeholder texture
>> No. 34676
>>34675
I thought they served for something like measuring the track or things like that, pretty cool for a placeholder, though.
>> No. 34683
File 133020887597.png - (219.82KB , 1825x809 , menu tree.png )
34683
added some more menus and stuff

now before you get all excited over OMG NETWORKING, it's just going to be a very crude and simple implementation so we can test things like kart balance and item balance.

We might eventually end up building on it for full-fledged multiplayer, but there's a lot of other stuff you'd need to add for that, like what do you do if somepony disconnects, blacklisting people, more "wait for other players" stuff, etc etc.
>> No. 34684
File 133020915549.png - (640.15KB , 529x720 , 131089831726.png )
34684
>>34683
Multiplayer is super important in a game like this, so I'm glad you took the decision to get it in. Any form of multiplayer should be fine, much better than playing a kart game on your own.
I guess that's what the two best projects on /collab/ (Fighting and PonyKart) have in common: they're based off multiplayer-oriented games.

Also WOOOW @ the pony names.
>> No. 34703
File 133022960849.png - (96.21KB , 314x326 , Toph_Has_A_Plan.png )
34703
>>34683
You guys are just SAILING through this aren't you? Making things left and right. Doing an excellent job might I say, excellent indeed.

I lol'd at the lack of an options menu :P THERE IS NO OPTION! You must play! Also the lightning lesbian XD I hope those are placeholders XD
>> No. 34712
>>34703
there will be options eventually! I'm just waiting for our GUI guy to make some graphics for stuff since skins are a bitch to set up and I don't want to have to do it twice. You can already set options by editing a text file - all this'll do is make it a bit easier
>> No. 34718
File 133029825951.png - (809.74KB , 1280x800 , Ponykart_02262012_221228720.png )
34718
>that feel when basic AI
now it's... kinda a racing game
>> No. 34720
>>34718
Why can't I hold all these twilights?

anyways nice to see how well this is developing, after mane6 live now this, keep up the good work
>> No. 34721
>>34718
That's cute, I bet they are all trying to run in the same line.
>> No. 34726
File 133030650142.png - (91.75KB , 263x316 , Toph_Nothing_To_Worry_About.png )
34726
>>34712
I know I know :P Just being silly. Take your time!

>>34718
Dat AI. Looks like the AI for the racers in any racing game after you've already finished the race :P

Will there be a rubber band effect? Like, they get insane amounts of speed just to catch up to you but JUST as they come onto screen, back to normal speed they go. So they're pretty much your wing men XD
>> No. 34730
>>34726
>rubberbanding
why do people keep asking about this
it's stupid and I don't know why people use it everywhere, it's just an excuse for having shit AI

if they get far behind then there are recovery items to help them catch up, like how mariokart had bullet bills and stuff
>> No. 34740
File 133031483480.png - (45.79KB , 187x205 , Toph_Slant_Mouth.png )
34740
>>34730
Hey man sorry :P I'll refrain from asking questions then.

And the recovery items are an obvious.
>inb4 speculation
>> No. 34747
>>34730
>it's stupid and I don't know why people use it everywhere, it's just an excuse for having shit AI

because that's not the reason for it. The whole point is to make the game fun. A race where the AI beats you all the time or gains a lead that is completely unshrinkable is not fun. A race where you consistently gain a lead that is unshrinkable is not fun. A race where the AI get's ahead of you then slows down for no reason feels like handholding and insulting.

It's not about covering for shit AI, it's usually about screwing up ai that is too good at racing and doing it so the player doesn't notice that much. It's about keeping the game interesting and intense. The items are part of that of course, but I wouldn't write off rubberbanding so early considering almost all competitive racing games in history have used them. Just use it properly.
>> No. 34748
>>34747
If anything you will probably need rubberbanding on lower difficulties (so people don't lose all the time), then try and discard it for the hardcore ones.
>> No. 34755
File 133036455777.gif - (28.61KB , 430x323 , mizu2.gif )
34755
Most people generally look down on rubberbanding because it sends the computer rocketing firmly into "cheating bastard" territory and makes things more irritating than they should be. I think what Hoppip is planning is for the best, but what do I know.
>> No. 34758
>>34755
Yeah exactly. Almost all games cheat. The point is you're not supposed to notice. Bad AI is when the game is OBVIOUSLY cheating.
>> No. 34761
File 133038009946.png - (42.18KB , 160x208 , 131276993443.png )
34761
There's a big difference between giving the AI a little speed boost when you're in first place (which is I believe what 64 and Double Dash do) and giving them several high-level items when they're in second place (which is what Super and Wii did).

Heck, Super MK gave the AI multiple items per lap, despite the fact that you could only get ONE per lap. Most obvious example is the second place AI using several stars in a row to try and catch up with you.
>> No. 34766
File 133039053008.png - (165.07KB , 512x384 , Toph_Melon_Lord.png )
34766
>>34758
But it's so funny to do that though. Like it makes you wonder wtf just happened XD

>>34761
Yeah in 64 it was HUGELY noticeable, especially when you have the gauge set to the screen perimeter. You're in first and you can see the 2nd place guy going the speed of sound, clearly moving faster than you AND everypony else, including those with stars :P
>> No. 34804
>>34748
That's a good point, it's not just the AI that would benefit from rubber banding if the player gains a speed boost the further behind they are too.

The point of it is to keep the game interesting and fun for everypony, it gives everypony a fairer chance without resorting to handing out items that screw over other racers. Getting hit by a Bullet Bill in Mario Kart can be frustrating afterall. :V
>> No. 34861
>>34234
more like using linux expecting to be able to run opensource games lol
>> No. 34866
Couldn't you run an emulator if you're a Linux user and wanted to play?
>> No. 34877
Hiya, I know you answered this in the FAQ, but would you consider adding bonus racing modes with kartless ponies? I believe the balancing could be done be either having some kind of Autumn Leaves Falls rules or by having different kind of obsticles in the sky. Diddi Kong Racing had carts planes and boats, so evy class could have it's strong and weak points. (Besides, I don't think a sonic rainboom is a match for Pinkie's running speed)
>> No. 34881
File 133061646522.png - (46.50KB , 256x212 , 1306901325143.png )
34881
>>34877
>> No. 34890
Game is called 'Ponykart'.
People suggest no karts.
Game is now called 'Pony'.
OK COOL.
>> No. 34914
File 133065664772.png - (57.76KB , 176x273 , Toph_Tea_Take_A_Seat.png )
34914
>>34877
>>34881
Thank goodness... We didn't need that kind of game lol. I don't need to be seeing plot all over the screen the whole race.
>> No. 34933
File 133068531949.png - (127.69KB , 518x408 , RaritySurprisedComp.png )
34933
>>34191
So i've managed to download the source files, put them in C:\, and was able to run the debug and the release without any errors (there were some warnings though)...but I'm not sure of the next step. How should I go about making the executable?
(btw, I had to edit "Build-Debug" and "Build-Release" so that the path was "C:\Windows\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v4.0.30319\MSBuild.exe" instead of "C:\Windows\Microsoft.NET\Framework64\v4.0.30319\MSBuild.exe")
Am I making any sense at all? :s
>> No. 34939
>>34933
Ponykart/bin/x86/Debug/
>> No. 34950
File 133071695079.jpg - (171.45KB , 1287x697 , Screenshot-2012-03-02_13_09_34.jpg )
34950
>>34939
Who distributed PonyKart again? Just synced source and got a huge watermark. Last build I gave out was the one that my friend used for his video. I see that the source site is removed from the Ponykart page... will the source still be updated?
>> No. 34952
>>34950
blame this flankhole for the watermark: http://xenovile.com/ponykart/

we'll still update source and stuff for now, but people spreading around compiled binaries is starting to become a problem, so hopefully this'll help discourage that
>> No. 34954
oh and we did another update video

http://youtu.be/hVBgmSY-dRM
>> No. 34955
Gotta say, guys

that was an intense update ahahahah
>> No. 34958
File 133071982233.png - (35.56KB , 118x167 , Toph_Not_A_Member.png )
34958
>>34952
Wow... that wasn't you guys? Talk about rippin' man... If you could go back in time, I would suggest not giving out the source information. But since it's already happened, you shouldn't update the source material for people to distribute.

>>34954
I lol'd at how you presented that XD "These guys with the watermarks and yada. We'll still update source material, blah blah. Oh yeah here's an update video"

And watching it was on an even higher level of hilarity XD Great job. She seriously needs that pose, I'm glad it happened.
>> No. 34960
>>34954
YES I AM HAPPY!
>> No. 34963
File 133073169044.png - (273.92KB , 733x481 , pleased.png )
34963
>>34954
>pic
And if Applejack's happy, I'm happy :3
>> No. 34966
>>34933
Yes, like Hoppip said, the exe is in /ponykart/bin/x86/debug.

>>34952
ಠ_ಠ
This does not make me happy.
Are you still updating the SVN?
>> No. 34967
>>34966
send him an angry email then

and yes we're still using the SVN

for now at least
>> No. 34970
>>34967
Sent. Not sure if he'll do anything, but hopefully he'll take it down.
>> No. 34975
If I may ask... what was such a bad thing about the http://xenovile.com/ponykart/ hosting a compiled version? I mean, I know I've been wanting to test this game of yours but have no knowledge of compiling and this really has me looking forward to an official release.

And please don't flame, <.< I'm only curious
>> No. 34977
>>34970
he already did, somepony told him on his google plus page, he said he didn't know he was doing anything wrong, the site is still up, but the ponykart.zip is no longer there
>> No. 34978
>>34967
Sorry about that xenovile guy. I would never do anything like that (not that i could)!
Anyway, is it possible to compile and run Ponykart on 32bit Windows XP? It just ain't workin so far. Gives me an error of event type clr20r3 when I try to run the debug. I'm pretty clueless when it comes to this kinda stuff.
>> No. 34980
>>34975
it's not that hard to compile things, just download the source I removed the links from our website but google should help, install visual studio C# express edition, then open the .sln file and hit the big play button

I don't mind people compiling it and playing it

I just don't want people putting it up for distribution like that other guy was doing

need to think of a better way to do it, but it's hard to add something like that to the source without it being really obvious

>>34978
it should be, I'm not sure why it isn't!

clr20r3 means nothing to me, could you be more specific?
>> No. 34982
>>34978
That's how I did it. You're sure you have the 32-bit compiler, right? (I'm sure you do, 64-bit shouldn't even run on 32-bit Windows)
>> No. 34983
>>34950
There is a rather easy solution to wipe the watermark. There is an undocumented and missleading ini setting to disable it.

Or you could just read the svn history and figure out where the watermark addition code hooks. It is rather transparent.
>> No. 34984
>>34958
I missed the drama, so excuse me if I get stuff wrong.

But it is an open source project distributed under a very permissive license. Sure, it is polite to listen to the devteam, but it is not a legal requirement. But hey, talking about legalities in a fanproject?

But hey, being polite keeps the devteam happy. And a happy devteam is less likely to ragequit. We wouldn't want that to happen.
>> No. 34986
File 133074397870.png - (64.87KB , 188x256 , 1300230338570.png )
34986
>>34983
>There is an undocumented and missleading ini setting to disable it.
I fixed that, now it isn't in the ini at all
>> No. 34989
>>34983
>>34984
>>34986
also, send me an email
>> No. 34990
POWERS

ALL I ASK FOR IS POWERS

Maybe something like the Item Box in Mario Kart, but upon breaking a box, the pony you control can get to use their individual power. So Twilight can use Magic, Rainbow Dash can do a Sonic Rainboom, Fluttershy can summon animals, etc etc.

Y/N? :D
>> No. 34993
>>34989
Now I wanna know what it is. D:
>> No. 34997
File 133075134047.png - (82.20KB , 323x335 , 105.png )
34997
>>34990
You mean like Mario Kart: Double Dash's Unique Items, or Sonic All Stars Racing's All Star Moves?

It could work, definitely as their last place maneuver to get back in the race.

...I still like the Sonic Rainboom as the replacement as the Bullet Bill though..
>> No. 34998
File 133075210965.jpg - (240.83KB , 1920x1080 , Ponykart error.jpg )
34998
>>34980
Okay, forget everything i've said before. I believe this is the last problem preventing me from launching ponykart. I've double checked that there are quote marks around all of the "$(__Dir)" things in the build events properties.
>> No. 34999
File 133075247153.png - (92.15KB , 214x294 , Toph_Chillin.png )
34999
>>34997
I wouldn't mind Double Dash type special items for racers :D Some would only be last ditch items but incredibly good nonetheless.
>> No. 35001
>>34998
You're sure you put it in the C:\ directory? The only way it worked for me was for there to be no spaces in any of the filenames.
>> No. 35004
>>35001
hmm, I couldn't find any files w/ spaces in them; do you have an example of one?
Also, the executable is found in C:\ponykart\Ponykart\bin\x86\Debug\, is that right?
>> No. 35009
>>34998
robocopy is reeaaaallly picky about how it handles its arguments

make sure they look like

robocopy "$(SolutionDir)Resources" "$(TargetDir)\" /E /NFL /NJS /NJH /NDL /NP

and

robocopy "$(SolutionDir)References\Release" "$(TargetDir)\" /E /NFL /NJS /NJH /NDL /NP

EXACTLY.
>> No. 35011
>>35009
well there's a
REM robocopy "$(SolutionDir)References\$(ConfigurationName)" "$(TargetDir)\" /E /NFL /NJS /NJH /NDL /NP but the other two are exactly as you typed them.
Could the source of the problem possibly be that my .NET framework is in a folder called "Framework" instead of "Framework64"? I had to edit the Build-Debug because of that.
>> No. 35013
File 133080274791.png - (79.59KB , 781x539 , Capture.png )
35013
>>35011
visual studio should handle all that for you though

your ponykart/bin/x86/debug folder should look a bit like pic related
>> No. 35014
>>35013
wow, I seem to be missing quite a bit there!
Namely, the media folder, the Ponykart.log, and some pdbs. I must've missed something big (and probably obvious too T.T)
Mind you, I only downloaded the trunk folder, if that changes anything.
>> No. 35015
>>35014
Must've missed something when you tried to build it. If you just build it in VS (not build + debug, just build), then open the output pane, are there any messages from robocopy?
>> No. 35016
File 133080642309.jpg - (304.37KB , 1920x1080 , Ponykart build output.jpg )
35016
>>35015
hmm, the output does mention robocopy...here's a screencap of it.
>> No. 35019
>>35016
...oh, I guess XP doesn't have robocopy then

copy over everything in the /resources/ folder (including the subfolders) into your bin folder

then go to /references/ and copy the DLLs there (ignoring the subfolders) into the bin folder

then go to /references/release/ and copy everything there (ignoring the subfolders) into your bin folder

then go to /references/release/media/plugins/ and copy everything there into your bin folder/media/plugins/

that should do it
>> No. 35020
>>35019
by "into your bin folder" do you mean ponykart/bin/, or ponykart/bin/x86/Debug?
>> No. 35021
>>35020
the same folder the exe is in
>> No. 35023
File 133081339150.jpg - (275.21KB , 1920x1080 , Assertion failed.jpg )
35023
>>35021
Assertion failed!
if you wanna give up, that's perfectly fine, I don't want to waste your time!
>> No. 35025
>>35023
okay well I have no idea what's up with that
>> No. 35027
>>35025
Yes! I got it to work! I deleted all Ponykart related files, downloaded and installed robocopy, redownloaded Ponykart, clicked build solution, then started debug. Thank you very much for all of your help, kind sir!
>> No. 35036
>>35027
I didn't even know robocopy was thing you could download!
>> No. 35045
Here's my thoughts on your latest trailer for Sweet Apple Acres:

Sweet Apple Acres has the potential to be a fun level, but a little scattered. For example, how about the apple carts are only on the beaten path, justifying going off-road to avoid the obstacles? The CMC clubhouse would also make a good shortcut ramp: just slap a turbo boost on it. And as for the barnhouse, unless the barn door slows you down unless you boost, players will choose the barn door all the time, rendering the other path useless.
>> No. 35052
File 133090411138.png - (248.84KB , 512x384 , Toph_Chill.png )
35052
>>35045
From watching a ton of people on youtube with footage of the compiled pre-alpha I can honestly say that people have already used the CMC clubhouse as a ramp :P And I also maybe have noticed a path off to the right of the barn that could be a shortcut for the shortcut XD Though I'm unsure of that :P
>> No. 35066
File 133092439667.png - (183.81KB , 900x1120 , 12 - 1 (2).png )
35066
>>35052

Almost everypony I know has used that as a ramp at some point.
>> No. 35067
File 133092551731.png - (73.28KB , 206x238 , Toph_How_Should_I_Know.png )
35067
>>35066
I don't think it was even intended for that :P
>> No. 35076
>>35045
the grass will eventually slow you down like in other kart games, I just haven't implemented that yet

>>35045
there's three paths, a wide safe path, a path through the barn doors, and a narrow path with a really sharp turn at the end. I might stick an item box on the wide path so there's still a reason to go through it.

>>35052
>>35066
well the physics are there, so why the fuck not?
>> No. 35088
>>35076
The problem with using it as a ramp is that it is too hard to hit.
>> No. 35092
File 133098595929.png - (37.20KB , 148x201 , Toph_Lookin_Down.png )
35092
>>35076
So there IS a path off to the right of the barn. I wasn't just hallucinating :P

And that ramp won't be as effective unless there's a boost involved, seeing as you're going to have the grass slow down the karts and it is off road.

Speaking of off road, in MK Wii they implemented an off road stat for karts and (hissssss) bikes. I was wondering if you would be putting that in for karts or will every kart be hindered equally by being off road? I would assume that it's easier to make every kart effected similarly by grass and off road materials then to make a brand new stat to incorporate and possibly encourage driving off the course XD
>> No. 35118
File 133106639707.png - (360.93KB , 757x567 , Ponykart_03062012_194702074.png )
35118
so now dash is done

AJ soon too hopefully
>> No. 35119
File 133106662334.png - (261.42KB , 652x681 , Ponykart_03062012_194631691.png )
35119
>>35118
>> No. 35120
>>35052
Or you could just take the time to make your own build.
>> No. 35123
File 133107204013.gif - (279.17KB , 300x307 , 131090469135.gif )
35123
>>35118
Rainbow... In Twilight's kart

Dash = thief confirmed.
>> No. 35139
File 133108655063.png - (120.93KB , 283x341 , Toph_Momo_Why_You_So_Adorable.png )
35139
>>35118
>>35119
Blazin through at the speed of sound, no doubt about it. Excellent work my friend. I take it you haven' made the model for her kart so you stuck her in Twilight's :P

>>35120
Well yeah but... I'm not technologically inclined at all D: I don't even know how to get the source code (And I don't want to. I just want to wait for the actual game. That way I can't POSSIBLY screw shit up) The most advanced thing I've done on a computer was edit html and css for ponychan to make a custom theme. That's it. Nothing advanced at all.
>> No. 35155
>>35139
Uhm, it is trivial to install a svn client, check out the code, install visual studio, open the premade solution and hit run.

Sure, it takes time and bandwidth, but it isn't hard.
>> No. 35156
File 133115614628.png - (445.99KB , 776x753 , Ponykart_03072012_212904951.png )
35156
and applejack is here too!
>> No. 35160
File 133116038485.png - (103.58KB , 436x344 , Toph_Tired_As_Shit.png )
35160
>>35155
The only thing I understood in that was "run" and I don't wanna. I just sat down...

>>35156
Bada bing! You don't mess with the family.
>> No. 35171
>>35156
Did I ever say that these pony models are adorable? Because they definitely are.
>> No. 35184
>>35160
0. Read the instructions.
1. Download visual studio, ensure that you get a version that supports C#.
2. Download a Subversion client.
3. Install the software.
4. Check out the ponykart source files.
5. Load up the ponykart solution.
6. Hit run.
7. Ask Hoppip for the watermark removal trick.
>> No. 35186
File 133123646474.png - (80.67KB , 285x316 , Toph_Scuse_Me.png )
35186
>>35184
Or I could be patient and wait for the game to be officially released before I play it :P

Good things come to those who wait.
>> No. 35188
>>35186
That might be a while!

>>35184
You can also download the source code from sourceforge via a generated tar.gz file (Code > Browse SVN > Download GNU Tarball > unzip it like you would a rar or something), though you'd have to redownload it whenever you wanted the most up to date version
>> No. 35189
File 133124329968.png - (123.52KB , 288x354 , Toph_Idea2.png )
35189
>>35188
Not nearly as long as Fighting is Magic though. They barely have 4 playable characters after several MONTHS of development. I'm still waiting patiently for that :P

Do not doubt my abilities of waiting!
>> No. 35190
>>35189
Yes, and we've got three characters who are all functionally exactly the same, one track that is likely to be remade, no items, no system of knowing who's in 1st, 2nd, etc, no multiplayer... If anything, they're way ahead of us
>> No. 35194
File 133124698132.png - (90.09KB , 277x335 , Toph_Demeaning.png )
35194
>>35190
But you haven't spent as much time as they have on it. They're several months ahead of you :P

Don't start having doubts about your own project. I believe in you.
>> No. 35200
>>35194
they started in spring last year I think, and we started in july
>> No. 35201
>>35200

We started in May, last year... so... =)
>> No. 35204
File 133126294753.png - (62.22KB , 219x237 , Toph_Encouragement.png )
35204
>>35200
>>35201
So more than a year ahead of you Hoppip.

Regardless of when you started, it's all about getting it done, and getting it done right. Take your time and have fun with it, both of you.

I wish I was useful at ALL because even though sitting back and noting all the progress you've made is fun, it would be even better to help out.
>> No. 35205
>>35204

>May 2011
>July 2011
>More than one year apart.
>> No. 35206
>>35205
Maybe pony years are only 2 months long.
>> No. 35207
File 133127152420.png - (222.15KB , 640x480 , Toph_Apple_Argument.png )
35207
>>35205
>>35206
Sorry for inability to read.

And pony years are 5 years long
>> No. 35234
Is there going to be controller support for this game, or will it be primarily Keyboard?
>> No. 35241
>>35234
Here's a copy paste from the last thread.

>controllers/wheels? maybe, we'll see what the input thing we use supports it
>> No. 35252
>>35234
>>35241
one of our developers was working on support for other inputs like an xbox controller, though he's kinda been busy with other stuff recently
>> No. 35263
>>35252
General joystick support would be fantastic. You can use GlovePIE to map almost anything you want to a joystick.
>> No. 35266
>>35263
that isn't a library though... is it?
>> No. 35269
>>35266
Oh, no, sorry. It's an external program. I meant that if you're able to implement general joystick support, you can then use GlovePIE to map any controller you like to be a general joystick. Instead of making support for Wii, PS3, 360, Playstation, N64 controllers etc., you can support general joysticks and GPIE can be used for specific ones.
>> No. 35273
>>35269
Screw Glovepie, just add normal directinput compatible drivers. It really is best when the OS knows of the controller and can deal with it properly.
>> No. 35280
Y know how people are talking about how flim and flam should be a boss? well maybe the goal is to collect more apples than them, and another level could be the underground mines, where the diamond dogs in a mine cart could try to collect more diamonds than you. just a thought. best of luck to all the team!
>> No. 35291
>>35280

let them focus on main tracks , carts and characters.

leave the minigames for modding guys , in like.. 6 months.
>> No. 35370
http://soundcloud.com/ponykart

just a bit of reorganization. Also added download links everywhere, since they were only on our site before
>> No. 35386
File 133158791896.png - (208.89KB , 416x532 , Toph_Pleased.png )
35386
>>35370
Yeah I've already downloaded the whole bunch :P Grazie for the organization though. That would be one thing I excel in: organization.
>> No. 35398
>>35386
Since you brought it up, the source code could use some organizing of the assets.

While it is fine to have all the audio in one folder right now, it is not going to scale well.

And I don't like the general design of categorizing by file type. Related files become distant. I dare somepony to try hunting down all the SSA related files. You can find stuff for it in nearly every subfolder.

I think that files should be grouped by what they belong to, not what kind of files they are. I don't care if it is a texture, a material, a model or some other kind of file, what I see is a kart and a pony in the kart.

A setup like this would also help out should we need to worry about a runtime budget to guarantee performance.
>> No. 35404
>>35398
>A setup like this would also help out should we need to worry about a runtime budget to guarantee performance.
Ogre already handles that through its resource groups and stuff. Plus it only loads what's actually in the scene at the moment, regardless of whether it's in a folder it "loaded"

But yeah it is a bit of a mess. Part of the reason why it's laid out as it is is because Ogre likes it when you tell it about resources in a certain order - textures, then materials, then models, and you can't guarantee that order if you rearranged everything the way you described.

It's not very hard to find all of the SAA-specific stuff at the moment anyway, as all of it is under some sort of SAA subfolder
>> No. 35415
>>35404
Sure you can, you build a list of things to load, order it as needed and then you do the load. It shouldn't even take a measurable amount of time. Besides, even if it did take time it could be automated and preprocessed.

There is really no correlation between the folder structure and how things has to be loaded. The file system is a horrible way of listing items to work with. I am not sure if we are using it that way or not. But I don't think we are.

While there are some subfolders for the level, there is still assets outside of those folders, if there even is one.

As for the budget, automation is nice, but manual skill is needed to deal with it. Loading assets during gameplay is just a horrible idea. Loading takes time, and time is something you don't have during gameplay.

There is also the issue of rendering performance. We don't do a lot there. Sure, there are a few models that are being hidden when they are in too far away areas and there is the billboarding.

But that leaves the biggest item being fully drawn all the time, the ground. We need something smarter than manually setup zones. The BSP based PVS system from the Source engine is a nice solution to the problem.

There is also another issue, there doesn't seem to be any source files for the assets in SVN. Not having those in SVN prevents editing the assets and acts as a risk in case the originals get lost.

That also goes for the music. The artists seem to be doing a great job at it, but we don't even have the rendered versions of all the tracks in SVN.

And to be frank, I prefer tracked audio. It is only by using tracked audio we can do the traditional music speedup at the last lap. You just can't do that with prerendered audio. Music should be dynamic. It is just so much better that way. Old as fuck hardware can run tracked music, so modern hardware can do it with ease.

Of course, there is also the benefits of tracked audio having much smaller file sizes. Compress the samples and have extreme reuse of them by playing them hundreds, if not thousands of times during the gameplay. Notes are cheaper than text.
>> No. 35423
>>35415
>Sure you can, you build a list of things to load, order it as needed and then you do the load. It shouldn't even take a measurable amount of time. Besides, even if it did take time it could be automated and preprocessed.

resources/media/plugins/resources.cfg

>There is really no correlation between the folder structure and how things has to be loaded. The file system is a horrible way of listing items to work with. I am not sure if we are using it that way or not. But I don't think we are.

Who's "we"?

>While there are some subfolders for the level, there is still assets outside of those folders, if there even is one.

Does it matter? I'm the only one who puts things into their folders

>As for the budget, automation is nice, but manual skill is needed to deal with it. Loading assets during gameplay is just a horrible idea. Loading takes time, and time is something you don't have during gameplay.

It hasn't been a problem so far, and if it becomes one then I can just stick a flag in the .thing file that tells it to preload it

>There is also the issue of rendering performance. We don't do a lot there. Sure, there are a few models that are being hidden when they are in too far away areas and there is the billboarding.
>But that leaves the biggest item being fully drawn all the time, the ground. We need something smarter than manually setup zones. The BSP based PVS system from the Source engine is a nice solution to the problem.

BSPs are for connected rooms and stuff, they don't really work all that well for big open areas

Yeah you can argue that stuff like TF2 are all open areas but they have loads of things acting as doorways even if they're outside

>There is also another issue, there doesn't seem to be any source files for the assets in SVN. Not having those in SVN prevents editing the assets and acts as a risk in case the originals get lost.
>That also goes for the music. The artists seem to be doing a great job at it, but we don't even have the rendered versions of all the tracks in SVN.

They're all in our dropbox

>And to be frank, I prefer tracked audio. It is only by using tracked audio we can do the traditional music speedup at the last lap. You just can't do that with prerendered audio. Music should be dynamic. It is just so much better that way. Old as fuck hardware can run tracked music, so modern hardware can do it with ease.
>Of course, there is also the benefits of tracked audio having much smaller file sizes. Compress the samples and have extreme reuse of them by playing them hundreds, if not thousands of times during the gameplay. Notes are cheaper than text.

ahahahaha are you seriously suggesting you use midis

midis sound like shit bro
>> No. 35425
>>35415
I was wondering why you were having a dev chat on ponychan but then

>Who's "we"?

It's all very strange.

Also, while midis have come a long way, I can't really see that as a better option. Also you can very plausibly (not sure if possible in the engine) have music "speed up" for the final lap by making two versions of the music and having the final lap play the fast version. You don't even have to make a seamless transition, you can do what they do in mario kart and have a little 'fanfare' noise as you start the final lap then play the new music from scratch (a fanfare is a good indicator of final lap anyway).
>> No. 35431
>>35423

Pardon me for saying this, but you seem to have an attitude that you are the only one who is going to mess around with the files in SVN. But fact is, this is not a one man project. There is also the issue that Future!Hoppip is going to be working on things. Don't end up like Future!Spike.

About preloading, I did not say that we should just solve simple problems. My worry is on a grander scale. I am saying that we need control over what assets each level uses so that we can reliably plan for utilizing the hardware resources correctly. I am saying that we need to be able to count things up in advance and know how much headroom we have and what we are spending the resources on. If we don't know what the limit is then we can't guarantee minimum hardware requirements.

I know that BSPs work best in tight coridory areas. I know full well that TF2 has it's fair share of level design tricks and smart optimization to make what feels like open areas not be as open as you think. I am saying that we need to do this as well.

In our case the level is just a circular tube with a bunch of twists. If it can be split into segments automatically and only the possibly visible segments are drawn then we have saved a lot of resources.

I don't know much about dropbox, as I have never used it, I know it is a shared folder. But I do know that fragmentation is bad. If we don't know where stuff is then we have to waste time hunting it down.

And I also know that SVN provides revision control. I don't know if dropbox provides that. And I think that it is a critical service for any serious project. Not just for code, but for assets as well. Put the full project in source control, sketches, plans, designs, code, assets, pr material, everything.

Nowhere did I mention MIDI. When I said tracked I meant not just MIDI, but all formats that are based on storing individual notes. And people are giving MIDI a bad reputation for no good reason. MIDI is fine for storing note data.

The real issue is that people doesn't bother specifying with what instruments it should be played back. That and the fact that audiophiles are not satisfied with the stock instruments that comes with the OS.

There are plenty of examples of tracked music with excellent quality. The reason is that they take the time to include the instruments as well. Have you ever played a Nintendo DS game? Nearly all of those use a system called Nitro composer. It is a sweet system and allows for very dynamic music. Nintendo has always known the strengths of tracked music.

>>35425
You clearly have a point about how the effect in question could easily be performed by storing two versions and using a sound effect to mask the switch. But that is just one possible effect that tracked music can do. Have you played any Zelda game? They do all sorts of neat things. Take for example Hyrule field in Ocarina of Time, it has several segments of music that are randomly stitched together based on what is going on.

It is very true that we are not going to need a lot of fancy tricks, it is a racing game that we are making here! But even a racing game can use fancy tricks. Levels can easily have different areas with slightly different music. We can do special tunes when doing fancy jumps. We can apply an effect to make the music reflect the horrible mood if you loose a race.
>> No. 35432
>>35431

I'm confused. Question. Are you in the Ponykart devteam?
>> No. 35434
>>35431
>Pardon me for saying this, but you seem to have an attitude that you are the only one who is going to mess around with the files in SVN. But fact is, this is not a one man project. There is also the issue that Future!Hoppip is going to be working on things. Don't end up like Future!Spike.
I don't see you contributing anything.

You're also acting as if I'm completely new to this sort of thing. Hell, before ponykart I spent about a year and a half just working on the game framework, and before that I was doing other stuff with 3D. This organization, while a bit of a mess, works fine for me. I haven't had any other complaints from anypony else on the team anyway, soooo

>About preloading, I did not say that we should just solve simple problems. My worry is on a grander scale. I am saying that we need control over what assets each level uses so that we can reliably plan for utilizing the hardware resources correctly. I am saying that we need to be able to count things up in advance and know how much headroom we have and what we are spending the resources on. If we don't know what the limit is then we can't guarantee minimum hardware requirements.

we've got like 4 gigglebytes or whatever computers these days have. We're not making this for a low-end console or anything with tight requirements

>I know that BSPs work best in tight coridory areas. I know full well that TF2 has it's fair share of level design tricks and smart optimization to make what feels like open areas not be as open as you think. I am saying that we need to do this as well.

>In our case the level is just a circular tube with a bunch of twists. If it can be split into segments automatically and only the possibly visible segments are drawn then we have saved a lot of resources.

WTW will be built with having scenery to block off parts of the track so they can be completely hidden. For example, there's a huge mountain in the middle of it which blocks off everything on the other side, as well as other tall hills and cliffs sticking out to block off things even more

>I don't know much about dropbox, as I have never used it, I know it is a shared folder. But I do know that fragmentation is bad. If we don't know where stuff is then we have to waste time hunting it down.

Like I said, nopony else on the team finds this to be a problem, as pretty much everything they're concerned with goes in the dropbox. The only people who even touch the SVN are me and the other programmers

>And I also know that SVN provides revision control. I don't know if dropbox provides that. And I think that it is a critical service for any serious project. Not just for code, but for assets as well. Put the full project in source control, sketches, plans, designs, code, assets, pr material, everything.

It doesn't have revision control per se, but you can undelete things and look at the history of files and revert to earlier versions

>Nowhere did I mention MIDI. When I said tracked I meant not just MIDI, but all formats that are based on storing individual notes. And people are giving MIDI a bad reputation for no good reason. MIDI is fine for storing note data.
>The real issue is that people doesn't bother specifying with what instruments it should be played back. That and the fact that audiophiles are not satisfied with the stock instruments that comes with the OS.
>There are plenty of examples of tracked music with excellent quality. The reason is that they take the time to include the instruments as well. Have you ever played a Nintendo DS game? Nearly all of those use a system called Nitro composer. It is a sweet system and allows for very dynamic music. Nintendo has always known the strengths of tracked music.

Yes, but we aren't developing for a DS. PCs have a hell of a lot more power than handhelds/old consoles do, so I don't see the problem.

Here's a challenge: try to recreate makkon's music using only the methods you described. Have fun!

>It is very true that we are not going to need a lot of fancy tricks, it is a racing game that we are making here! But even a racing game can use fancy tricks. Levels can easily have different areas with slightly different music. We can do special tunes when doing fancy jumps. We can apply an effect to make the music reflect the horrible mood if you loose a race.
It's not hard to sync up two musics together and crossfade them
>> No. 35435
>>35432
no he is not
>> No. 35443
>>35434
You are silly to not properly think of people with older hardware. There is the quality settings, but being able to guarantee proper behavior on less powerful hardware is very good. There is also the fact that knowing where the resources go is good even for high end machines. If you are able to catch excessive uses then you can put those resources to much better use.

You should always use your resources wisely, even if you have a lot of them. Unplanned and unmanaged resource usage makes even the fastest computer seem like crap. Horrible battery times for laptop users due to max cpu usage for nothing? Horrible framerate due to drawing the full level? It doesn't take skill to waste even the largest of resources. But using those resources to create something awesome that quite frankly shouldn't be possible? That's true skill.

There is also the issue of limiting the number of people able to play the game. If 10 % can't play it due to sloppy resource use then that is a lot of people who doesn't benefit from the project. If this was a commercial project then a 10 % sales loss would be hard to justify, especially if it is due to sloppiness.

I am not saying that you, or anypony else is sloppy. I am saying that proper structure will ensure that even the slightest bit of sloppiness is caught and an even better product can be created.

You also say that things works for you. This does not mean that it can't be improved even for just you.

If you say that you have had no complaints, does that mean that there are no problems? I trust your word that you really hasn't had any complaints. But I wonder if you have been presenting the project to the correct people?

The average guy who even hears of this project wouldn't know even 10 % of what you do. They aren't complaining because they don't see the issues. Not because the issues aren't there. You simply won't hear any complaints unless Lyra starts sitting normally again.

There is of course the fact that this project has no official testable build. People (who doesn't know how to compile code) are stuck with at best second hand experiences. Most of the team members are also few and unskilled at this.

People are just happy to have a game that looks nice. They don't know what else to ask for. Shorter load times? More drivers? A one hour job thing that takes little skill to whip up but everypony else thinks took months to create? The players don't know what they want. And they really don't have any idea about the more technical details.

You have a sampling problem. You pick input from people who are not able to give valuable input. This is not something you did on purpose. It is very hard to avoid. There is also the problem of the sample size. You will not get any meaningful results out if you just ask the limited people on the team. Of course, you have a very valid reason here: you don't want to expose the public to the flaws in the project. You think that the project isn't ready for the public. And I have to agree with you there. It isn't ready for a public release as it is right now.

But could the project be cleaned up and shown as a public alpha release? Most definitely. Fix the most obvious issues and make a release. You will get more input. Most of the input will be junk. But there will be some good input too. And it is also good for PR to have something solid to show. This isn't just another project with a lot of will and no skill, this is a project with skilled people behind it who are actually able to pull it off. Show your skill to the people!

You dare me to recreate what must have taken a great deal of time for a skilled artist to create? I can't do that. I am a programmer, not an artist. Also, you have a point, this isn't the DS. We have even more power than the DS.

So why stick to a solution that is so much more blunt and resource wasting? We are doing 3d sounds. But we can't even do what thousands of guys sitting in their bedrooms 20 years ago did? If the DS has a 16 channel hardware mixer and the PC can easily mix thousands of channels, then why use a solution that only uses a single mixer channel for the music?

I will tell you why: no one has thought of using more power here. They don't know what to do with the power.

Also, I dare to present the following idea: The very talented musicians don't know squat about dynamic music. They have never tried it. They have never heard of it. They lack training and experience. They don't have the tools and don't understand the power in the tools.

Artists of all kinds just doesn't like to learn their tools and wouldn't even dare to think of finding better tools. People sitting and drawing in MS Paint because they have never heard of vector graphics is another example. Technology should be used to help people. But people need to know of the technology and how it will help them.

You say that it is easy to sync two tracks up and cross-fade between them? You are absolutely right! But easy does not mean good. How much extra storage space do you think that Mario kart uses for the speed up version? The answer is none. They did two versions of the track for the cost of one.

You may think the cost is insignificant. I mean, what is another few megabytes? That's less than a second of download time even on my low grade connection these days. Thing is, it all adds up. Do you know how big TF2 is? Too big to fit on a DVD! We could argue if that is justified or not. But would rather argue about the effect. The effect is that it is an obstacle to people who want to try the game. You want to remove as many obstacles as possible.

Finally, sorry if I made the impression that I am part of the team. I am not and I am not looking for such a position. I am just a normal programmer who has taken up an interest in this project. The only thing that separates me from the average brony is that I have a lot of technical skill and can understand things others can't.
>> No. 35445
>>35443
>words words words
but the resources aren't even a problem at this point, ogre only loads what it needs, and whenever you change levels it unloads everything. Hell, I could stick everything in one giant folder, tell ogre to only use that, and it would still only load things that are actually in the scene at that point.

If you hide stuff, like I'll be doing more with WTW, it doesn't render them at all. It's like a crude implementation of a BSP, using invisible primitives from the physics engines that fire events when you drive through them (I call them trigger regions)

And although dynamic music is nice for things like an RPG, where there's loads of different stuff going on, I don't really see what you could use it for in a driving game - there's not many different situations. There's what, stopped, moving, hit by something... what else?

Only times I could see it being effective is crossfading to another track like some MKwii tracks did, like when you went in the underwater bit in koopa cape or whatever it was called, or like when you moved to the different merchants in the market in skyward sword
>> No. 35454
File 133172460951.jpg - (83.85KB , 385x300 , 38618 - Futurama diamond_dogs fry meme mom not_sure_if rover your.jpg )
35454
RealismFactors, you're a femoral artery. Stop expecting Unreal Engine 4 from a small independent (and free) game, and stop suggesting highly impractical bullshit that isn't worth the effort.

These people are making PonyKart in their spare time for us and if you can't be thankful then get lost and don't play if you're unimpressed.

Besides, your beloved Mario Kart crossfades digital tracks all the time.
>> No. 35455
>>35445

You still seem to be ignoring the point I am trying to make here. I am not worried about having to stall while loading resources mid gameplay. I am worried about the lack of resource accounting. Do you know which textures are the largest ones? Are their size justified?

I know full well of the trigger regions. I just don't think it is a strong enough solution for already explained reasons, it doesn't do anything for the actual track geometry.

You do have a point in that the needs for dynamic music is sparse at best. But this does not mean that it isn't effective.

>>35454
I don't get your simile. But I get that this is not a commercial grade project. Does that mean you have to be sloppy? Of course not! As for my suggestions being impractical, please explain how they are impractical.

And do I look like I am unthankful? I really do like the project. I just want it to be the best possible.

Also, I don't doubt your words about Mario Kart crossfading between sampled tracks. I am intrigued instead, tell me a little more about when. Just list a few examples and I will be quiet.
>> No. 35459
>>35455
My simile was wordfiltered. I actually called you a c-word for a woman's private parts, but alas, this is a child-friendly board it seems.

They're impractical because they're impractical. The worst of it is the tracker system because it would be hard to program, hard to make music for and almost completely pointless in the long run. Digital music doesn't even take up that much space especially if it's in Ogg Vorbis as opposed to MP3, and it lets you have unlimited possibilities with sound. Music is more than just notes, and you seem to be looking at it from a practical point of view rather than artistic point of view. I also don't appreciate you talking down at the other bronies and giving yourself a false sense of superiority over nothing.

Examples of crossfading in Mario Kart? in Mario Kart Wii: Bowser's Castle and Koopa Cape. Also Toad's Factory (actually forces looping rather than crossfading too), and in Mario Kart 7: Rainbow Road's moon section and pretty much every flying and underwater section. Additionally, many stages have extra drum beats when you're going at max speed. Additionally, both of these games often have different arrangements of the songs for the final lap, not just sped-up versions. Most notable of this is MK7 Rainbow Road's final stretch being almost a completely different version of the song.

We live in a high-tech age. Even the crappest of computers and connections are still decent (and I'm always slow to upgrade my hardware), and it's highly unlikely that this game wouldn't fit on DVD, so don't worry about stuff like that.
>> No. 35461
File 133173534782.png - (31.92KB , 120x185 , dev-mdickie.png )
35461
Just call him a M. Dickie. Because that's what he's acting like.
>> No. 35462
File 133174101465.gif - (379.89KB , 600x600 , Circular_reasoning_standard.gif )
35462
>>35459
>They're impractical because they're impractical.
See attached picture.

Also, name calling isn't proper arguing. Please stay calm.

However, you have a point in that I have been looking down on people. I do not want to do that. But the harsh reality is that I do have the skills and most people don't. They have their own skills that I don't have.

You seem to think that a DCT based audio encoding is simpler to program. Given how much of a mess a tracker could be, you are probably right there. Point is, it doesn't matter how hard it is to program, because somepony else has already done it. None of us are going to write our own audio decoder. We use libraries that smarter people than us have made. There is of course also libraries for tracked music.

However, I do not believe your claim that tracked music is harder to make. The artist is still going to use tracked tools, no matter the final output format. It will be different tools yes, but the same principles apply there as in any other music authoring software. You still have tempo and you still have notes. There may not be a ton of fancy VST plugins, but the core is still the same.

Also, you say that sampled audio has unlimited possibilities. That may be true, but it isn't dynamic. And you can get most, if not all, such possibilities with proper software instruments.

You seem to say that I do not have an artistic viewpoint. That is true, I am not an artist. But I am not having a purely practical viewpoint either. I try to have the viewpoint of an educated user/player here. I point out awesome effects and the most suitable technology for those effects.

And I never said that I was worried that the game wouldn't fit on a DVD, I used an extreme example to show that things can snowball. I don't think that would happen even if this would snowball.

You say that I shouldn't worry about old hardware. But who should?
>> No. 35463
>>35455
>I am worried about the lack of resource accounting. Do you know which textures are the largest ones? Are their size justified?
The characters and karts all have big textures because they're importand models you're going to be seeing a lot.
The terrain textures for SAA (and for other tracks) are big because they're usually stretched over a large piece of geometry.
The textures for SAA that have like 4+ different textures in them are like that to avoid having to switch textures as often, reducing the batch count.
All of the other texture "atlases" are also big.
Also the barn.

>it doesn't do anything for the actual track geometry
because it doesn't need to
>> No. 35464
> This Thread

The Modstaff should add a new rule to /collab/ stating that any person who tries to manipulate a project that he/she isn't a part of, or simply starts complaining and demanding things just for the sake of being annoying, should be will be banned for life from Ponychan, but only after receiving a fair warning and a chance to stop the annoying behavior for good.

Lately, too many annoying people have been causing problems in several fanprojects, forgetting that none of the project teams owed them anything and in fact, the annoying people were entitled to absolutely nothing in the first place.

Ponykart is a freeware game made by a small group of people during their free time. If somepony isn't satisfied with their free game, then they are free to go and program a much better game all by themselves instead of coming here to screech and bellyache because Ponykart Team isn't changing everything to suit the needs of an insignificant group of people who doesn't even make 1% of the intended target.
>> No. 35467
>>35464
>he isn't only saying good things about the project, therefore he must be banned!
haha, ponychan logic!
>> No. 35469
File 133174755342.png - (184.45KB , 512x384 , Toph_Not_A_Care.png )
35469
>>35455
I thought it was more of a metaphor...

>>35464
Nooooo that's unnecessary :P Don't need to ban somepony from having opinions and a strong will to persist in getting his thoughts across. Either strong will or stubbornness because when something like this happens and it gets to be this length, people don't like backing down. So at this point mostly everything they say is either been said already or is just complete BS just to say they have the last word.

At least that's what I'm seeing

>>35467
But it's so fun :O
>> No. 35470
>>35469
>Don't need to ban somepony from having opinions

Nooooo. People having opinions is actually cool.

People yelling that only their opinion is important and the entire universe should rearrange itself to suit said opinion, no matter if said opinion is dumb, useless or biased is not cool though. Especially when said people keeps receiving a "last" chance after "last" chance and rather than being reasonable, they only uses them to become more demanding and more annoying.

>>35467

Twisting other people's words to make them look "evil" and so, having an excuse to brush them off and never feeling unconfortable again IS Ponychan logic, actually.

I wish I were joking, but one of the main reasons for why people mocks and badtalks Ponychan is for that kind of logic used here at a regular basis, including certain members of the staff.
>> No. 35473
>>35467
Well said.

>>35463
Good to have explanations like that, even if I already had learned that trick (like last week actually).

My worry isn't knowing things by hearth now. It is about a lack of automated, infailable, tools that catches everything, no matter how trivial, and makes a nice report with headings like "Top 15 largest textures in SSA (table)", "Texture memory use in SSA (piechart)" and "Number of polygons visible during a lap of SSA from various points on the track (line chart)". Boring business stuff for sure, but having it make it so much simpler to play the blame game.

Btw, how many polygons is the SAA track anyway?

And there is a difference between "need", "should" and "benefits from". It is true that the ground does not need to be split up. But would it benefit from it? Is it worth the additional work? If/if not, why?

>>35464
There are some fine lines between "criticism", "hostile project takeover", "providing input" and "being annoying". This sure went out of proportion.

>>35469
That's why I have a rule to avoid repetition. I reply to other people when I have something new to say. Otherwise I try to just state that it has already been discussed/answered/argued and briefly provide a summary. Of course, communication failure due to me being unclear does force me to repeat myself to get myself understood.
>> No. 35474
>>35473
>Btw, how many polygons is the SAA track anyway?
you tell me! there's a triangle count thing on that little debug info box, though you might need to put ModelDetail down to Medium because the bloom shader messes it up
>> No. 35475
>>35474
Easier said than done if the game barfs up a lua error box when entering the level.

I suppose I could just pick an earlier revision, but hey, you might have added something fun in the code!

Anyway, LuaVM.Lua.DoFile is being called with the argument "media/scripts/pomf.lua" when stuff breaks.
>> No. 35476
>>35475
update your repo
>> No. 35477
File 133176061951.png - (72.63KB , 236x250 , Toph_^___^.png )
35477
>>35470
Of course. It only happens like that anyways :P there's never a common ground until somepony's just like "Whatever!" and then a half-asked agreement is taken.

But that's very rare.
>> No. 35478
>>35476
I did that, revision 646 is the latest and it still doesn't work.
>> No. 35479
>>35478
that is strange because pomf.lua doesn't even exist any more
>> No. 35481
>>35479
Yet it persisted in the debug and release folders. Well, that is easy to delete.

Anyway, the triangle count is inconclusive (and way too often zero). I strongly suspect that this is due to frustum culling. But a bit over half a million is the highest I could see in my limited run. But the scale was way off in that run. Either the level has been upsized or the racer has been downsized.
>> No. 35482
I Love Fluttershy
>> No. 35490
>>35481
yeah I'm downsizing everything to use better real-world units

the physics engine doesn't really like the units it had, and right now is a good time to do it since we're just starting WTW and we're probably gonna end up redoing SAA
>> No. 35508
Youtube embed play button
  Here is an excellent example of how MIDI can be used to control a non traditional instrument.

Remember kids, always blame the correct thing!
>> No. 35516
Ok now you're just being a Trixie.
How about you show an example of EXACTLY you were presenting earlier, instead of something fancy, but unrelated. What I'm trying to say is, how exactly does that prove anything, except maybe that you can in fact play music on FDDs?
>> No. 35523
File 133184951052.png - (177.26KB , 488x428 , Toph_Just_Sayin.png )
35523
>>35516
Tellin' ya man... That is no one true compromise.
>> No. 35526
>>35516
It illustrates my point that MIDI is not to blame for bad instruments. MIDI is just used to communicate between instruments and the note source.
>> No. 35527
>>35526
Yay the argument has come down to definition of terms. Great.
You're being really deliberately dense about this. MIDI is the word WE use to describe the type of music file. It doesn't matter if it's correct.

The devs know what the difference is.

I, at least, know that MIDI is not just a file format. The point has been stated that while it has some advantages, the fact seems to be that none of the composers are likely willing (I'm putting words into their mouths) to bother doing that when they can just compose whatever they want without restriction. In theory most of the tracks they make (unless they have live recordings) are essentially instrument-referencing tracks, using samples at different pitches, and are most likely worked on in some sort of midi-like format. I know that's the case with our game's music. Then they are flattened and made into WAVs. yes WAVS. :(

If they want sped up or alternate tracks, all are doable (at least in theory, not counting engine limitations) in the limited places where you would want it in a kart game with mp3s.

Last lap hyper: doable with mp3s
underwater/through a sunny forest mood changer: doable with mp3s
Reverb change when you are in a cave or something: doable with mp3s
>> No. 35541
>>35527
I wouldn't use a different audio track for a simple reverb effect. It is a simple enough effect to just apply at runtime. Besides, you wouldn't get the effect on the other sounds if it was baked into the music.

But you really do have a point. It is possible to switch tracks well even if they are prerendered.
>> No. 35546
>>35527
>In theory most of the tracks they make (unless they have live recordings) are essentially instrument-referencing tracks, using samples at different pitches, and are most likely worked on in some sort of midi-like format.
I'm pretty sure the stuff makkon uses has every individual note recorded from a real instrument instead of just pitch bending
>> No. 35548
>>35546
Explanation for those who want to know what the impact is:

Less pitch bending means less harmonic artifacts. It is simply a closer simulation. And no pitch bending due to all notes having their own sample is a very close simulation. But it costs storage space and setup time (those samples aren't going to record and edit themselves). Is it worth it? If you are an audiophile, sure. Otherwise? You can probably get away with a few % of pitch bending easily.

TL;DR: it is a quality/storage space trade off.
>> No. 35549
Youtube embed play button
  oh and somepony showed me this

it's one of makkon's songs put into another game

and look at all the effects it can do to it
>> No. 35550
Makkon here, lead composer. Just want to throw in my two cents.

Modern games create dynamic soundtracks by creating layers, or tracks that can be mixed. They have the same tempo and follow the same chord progression. But the final product is not a midi. It's either an ogg or a wav or even an mp3. A good example is Little Big Planet, they had songs that you could mix with the several layers of instruments that they gave you.

but this isn't midi. It's a fully rendered track. MIDI is nothing more than note information. It tells the computer what key to play, how loud, and many other variables. But the actual midi note has no sound. It's like sheet music for the computer.

Modern sample libraries don't pitch a single sampled note anymore. Each note is sampled on it's own, sometimes several iterations of the same note, and also at variable velocities. The point of this is to make it sound real. As a result, most quality sample libraries are several gigabytes in size and take quite a bit of processing power to work with. It's utterly asinine to think that the outdated midi music system that old games used could possibly work in modern games.

And then there's mixing and mastering, which is an entirely different issue all-together.

What most modern games do now is simple cross-fading or use simple transitions. The SSX games all had fully rendered tracks with several transitions to make the music situational.

But I do this for free in my spare time. Ponykart is a simple kart racing game, and doesn't have any need for a complex music system. I have a life.
>> No. 35551
>>35541
I didn't suggest they use a different file for a reverb. I kindof assumed that it was a given that those sorts of things could be done at run time.
>> No. 35571
That watermark make the game imposible.After several hours of searching in svn history and in the source code i found how to remove it (in 2 different ways).But... because i know how hard is to make a game, i am not going to tell anypony how its posible to remove it :P.
>> No. 35572
>>35571
oh well.... a tiny mistake in my sentence "That watermark makes the game imposible to play..."
>> No. 35577
File 133201106993.png - (35.73KB , 177x183 , Toph_Lighten_Up_A_Bit.png )
35577
>>35550
Mario Paint is a good example of MIDI formation right? You place little markers where the game with play a certain sound on when it reaches that point. Put a bunch of them together and you get music.
>> No. 35602
>>35550
You have a point in that there are extremely big sample databases out there. But I dare say that most people can't hear the quality difference between that and maybe five samples in total per instrument. Especially not when they are busy actually playing the game. It really is a space vs quality trade off.

You are correct in that mixing and mastering is a different issue. It really can make or break a track. But it is not very computationally difficult. From my limited reading it seems like it is mostly panning, volume control and the occasional frequency filter. The problem there is not in implementing the effect, but controlling it. With enough smarts and artist collaboration that can be done.

>>35577
If we redefine MIDI to mean any kind of tracked music, sure. But MIDI really is a strictly defined industry standard.

What I am more thinking of is mod files (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Module_file), files that include both the note data and the instrument definitions.
>> No. 35603
File 133209480897.png - (530.43KB , 1280x800 , Ponykart_03172012_031732786.png )
35603
applejack's kart is finished and in the game! At the moment it's not very different from twilight's but we're still working on that

Also I fixed the watermark thing so now you should only see it if you're running a version somepony else built. If you still get it even when you compile it yourself, gimme a poke
>> No. 35609
File 133210300761.jpg - (15.37KB , 612x339 , 131280913323.jpg )
35609
>>35603
Here's my money.
>> No. 35612
>>35603
Soo... it uses cider as fuel? :P
>> No. 35613
File 133210501564.png - (189.07KB , 512x384 , Toph_All_My_Money.png )
35613
>>35603
>> No. 35615
File 133211139876.png - (334.66KB , 900x478 , cutie_mark_crusaders_are_happy_by_theairforcebrony-d4p9e3o[1].png )
35615
>>35603
Yes! Awesome kart!

>Also I fixed the watermark thing so now you should only see it if you're running a version somepony else built.
>mon visage quand

Thank you! I'll have to try it out soon.
>> No. 35616
>>35603
Wait, so this means that if I compile it on one computer and try to play it on another, the watermark will show up, correct?
>> No. 35617
>>35616
Unless you manage to duplicate the checked hardware id or crack a cryptographical hash function.

Or you could just hunt down and remove the check code again. But that is a little tricker this round.
>> No. 35637
>>35616
correct
>> No. 35758
Love your project and that new Applejack kart looks amazing. I had no idea you would give characters their own. Are you going to be able to switch drivers with Karts to mess around with stats like in Mario Kart Wii? Or do all characters have more or less the same speed/weight/acceleration?

Either way I can't wait to see more!
>> No. 35787
I love the names you gave to the ponies (Or maybe the names of their karts?) in the source, are those gonna be in the final build, or is that just you putting in fun placeholder names?
>> No. 35789
>>35758
>Are you going to be able to switch drivers with Karts to mess around with stats like in Mario Kart Wii?
probably not

>Or do all characters have more or less the same speed/weight/acceleration?
no, those will be different

>>35787
no that would be silly
>> No. 35815
Darn it, I keep getting runtime errors during the start.

>An unhandled exception of type 'System.AccessViolationException' occurred in Mogre.dll

>Additional information: Attempted to read or write protected memory. This is often an indication that other memory is corrupt.

This coming from KernelOrgeInitializers.cs:42

It only happens sometimes. Mostly when I don't have the focus on the game when starting.
>> No. 35829
Feel free to ignore but from the forums it seems a handful of people already have a working demo. Is this open to the public or a select few? I would love to try out your game and would be more than happy to provide as much feedback as possible. My expertise falls mainly with animation but I feel through 23 years of playing video games I should be able to provide some decent feedback.
>> No. 35830
File 133246666067.png - (604.06KB , 1280x800 , Ponykart_03232012_010039778.png )
35830
so the physics engine really doesn't like having 9 karts at once so I've been working on speed improvements. I reduced the fixed timestep to 1/45 instead of 1/90 so that should be faster but now the karts are kinda jittery. Oh well, still working on stuff.

In the meantime we finished two more drivers and also did some more work on WTW trees and stuff

PUT YOUR DAMN MONEY BACK IN YOUR WALLETS

>>35815
well I dunno why it does that, though you can just comment that part out if it's an issue

>>35829
what forums?

it's open source, so you can compile it and play it yourself if you want
>> No. 35831
File 133246684924.png - (439.46KB , 1280x800 , Ponykart_03232012_004946821.png )
35831
>> No. 35833
File 133246728639.png - (434.04KB , 1280x800 , Ponykart_03232012_005003649.png )
35833
>> No. 35834
File 133246731698.png - (408.99KB , 1280x800 , Ponykart_03232012_005105733.png )
35834
>> No. 35835
File 133246737534.png - (418.79KB , 1280x800 , Ponykart_03232012_005149580.png )
35835
>> No. 35836
File 133246744112.jpg - (284.76KB , 1920x802 , treescreen01.jpg )
35836
>> No. 35837
File 133246749986.jpg - (391.59KB , 1000x800 , Tree_NewLeaves1.jpg )
35837
>> No. 35839
File 133246793603.jpg - (427.94KB , 1000x800 , Trees_NewLeaves4.jpg )
35839
okay last one
>> No. 35841
File 133246966746.jpg - (110.83KB , 500x300 , 130184202731-4109_-_Futurama_macr[1].jpg )
35841
>PUT YOUR DAMN MONEY BACK IN YOUR WALLETS

NO

Awesome models, as usual!
>> No. 35843
>>35836
>>35837
>>35839
The trees look great! Great combo of nice texture and simple sprites and simple 3d. Just the right feel. Awesomes.
>> No. 35851
>>35830

>>PUT YOUR DAMN MONEY BACK IN YOUR WALLETS

Can I put somepony else's money in -your- wallets instead? :3
>> No. 35853
File 133248870318.png - (23.14KB , 235x243 , Toph_Awesome.png )
35853
>>35830
Beautiful!
>> No. 35873
File 133254156464.png - (377.22KB , 1280x800 , Best pone.png )
35873
last onnnneeeeeee

video soon
>> No. 35891
>>34761

Uh no I have to defend Super MK as one of my favorite games ever. The item system was nothing like that. It probably did not handle items that way because of the demands of the hardware.

Enemies had no item. The opponents each had a signature ability they can do at intervals. If they used tons of super stars it means Mario or Luigi were #2. No rubberbanding that I noticed either.
>> No. 35899
Youtube embed play button
  neeewwww videoooooo
>> No. 35902
>>35891
Huh, that is pretty interesting... Still not a very good way to balance things, though.

>>35899
Good to see some of Whitetail Woods, it's looking quite nice. We've seen most of the stuff here in the thread already but it's nice to go a little more in-depth.
>> No. 35923
So about performance, do you know as an indisputable, properly measured, fact what the main cpu time consumers are right now? I can help out in case you need somepony with profiling tools. They are wonderful for hunting down bottlenecks.

For example, one a one lap run of SSA I have 45 % of the samples being in the StepSimulation method of the physics system. And about 17 % in LoadLevelNow. And a surprising 2.9 % is spent on ToUInt32, all from the IsFlagSet method.
This is all being done on a release build.
>> No. 35924
>>35923
I've got VS ultimate so I've been using its profiler

here's where I've posted graphs and stuff: http://bulletphysics.org/Bullet/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=7981

>And about 17 % in LoadLevelNow.
it shouldn't count loadlevelnow specifically, it should count all of the little bits, like the ThingParser and stuff

>And a surprising 2.9 % is spent on ToUInt32, all from the IsFlagSet method.
...what
>> No. 35932
The video looks excellent, and so do the pony models. I swear, I how do they end up looking so show accurate? And they are all really well animated, too.

My friend had an idea for a level: A post-discord ponyville track, with a lot of twisting tracks and whacked out physics (driving on ceilings, suddenly becoming humongous and driving over ponyville or teeny and going through a house) with a lot of neat scenery of crazy twisty things

I just wanted to mention that, it just seems like a really cool location for an unlockable track
>> No. 35933
Well, if you're still working on karts for ponies, I have one serious suggestion.

Fluttershy's kart needs to either be a direct rip of, or else heavily inspired by, the monster Trans Am from the Redline anime.
>> No. 35936
>>35933
Nothing says ponies like a reference to a random anime!
>> No. 35937
>>35932
This sounds fantastic. I'm thinking an A to B track would work well for this instead of being lap-based.

Unfortunately, that would be TONS of modeling. It could be done, though. I like the sound of it. They only have a few tracks planned for now, but who knows what's in the future.
>> No. 35939
File 133266395949.png - (115.17KB , 550x906 , 130876085382.png )
35939
>>35932
This level idea sounds really really awesome.

>mfw driving on that track
>> No. 35946
>>35932
when those episodes aired I was thinking the same thing - discorded ponyville would make a great track since we can do all sorts of crazy shit with gravity and things

we probably won't do it for a while though. There are plenty of more "normal" tracks to do first
>> No. 35949
File 133267550558.png - (387.66KB , 566x547 , 132778051378.png )
35949
>>35932
I think I had that on my track wishlist back in the first thread. I should remake that list... Someday (lazy)
>> No. 35951
I really love these models... and the AI is shaping up nicely , AJ kart is sweet!

I have some random thoughts that i am willing to share, the ideas for the power ups , of course devs you don't have to listen to me at all , but here's how *I* would imagine them:

Mane 6 cutie marks could be symbols of the power ups , this would go like this:

Twilight star = shield
Rainbow's rainbow = power boost
Fluttershy's butterflies = temporarily limited view.
Rarity's gem = projectile
AJ's apple = cider bomb(?)
Pinkie Pie's baloon = confetti mines

if you have anything to add , go ahead , or can modify my ideas , it's all in good fun.
>> No. 35960
>>35924
I use inclusive counts, since all those small things add up. Especially when templates causes 5 bajilion of functions to be called.

Anyway, I am satisfied just by hearing that you are profiling and seem to know how to use it.
>> No. 35962
>>35951
the thing with items is that you want to easily be able to know exactly what they do and how they're used from the icon alone - cutie marks are incredibly vague, and trying to remember what character goes with which item can get difficult when you start having lots of different items
>> No. 35965
Also suggestion, flim and flam, if they become a boss, could constantly roll barrels of ciders out the back like most ctr bosses.
>> No. 35967
>>35962

well , yeah , some CM are obvious like RD giving speed, i have no real idea for projectiles.
>> No. 35968
I think that cutiemarks should be reservated for identifying ponies. Not items.
>> No. 35975
>>35936
Well, the 'Fluttershy/Pinkie/Rainbow Dash found a Trans Am' flash, in which Shy's sending said car screaming down a mountain, did start the whole 'Ponies in cars' meme.

Which gave us Derpy riding down a hill in a cardboard box to a cover of 'Can't stop me now'.

So yes, reference the awesome.
>> No. 35980
File 133272866104.jpg - (86.59KB , 480x540 , 1305838713035.jpg )
35980
>>35975
>lol guize LE BRONY REFERENCES XDXDXD LOL!!!!!! SO FUNNY!!!!!!! XDXDXD
>> No. 35981
File 133272911152.png - (80.67KB , 285x316 , Toph_Scuse_Me.png )
35981
>>35980
That was a little dramatic don't you think?
>> No. 35983
File 133272986611.png - (82.15KB , 427x373 , 1322935412772.png )
35983
>>35981
no no no THIS is dramatic

>WHATA FUCK MAN xD i just fall of my chair kuz i couldnt and i CANT stop laugh xDXDXDXDXDDDDDXDDDDDDDXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD OMGOSH DDDDDXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD DDDDDD LOOOOOOOOOLLLLL THIS IS A SHIT XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDXDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD A BIG ONE XDDDDDDDD A GRAT ONE XXXXXXDDDD CONGRATS MAN XD
>> No. 35984
File 133273013960.png - (55.80KB , 209x205 , Toph_Gah_I_Cant_Look.png )
35984
>>35983
I better check myself into a hospital for third degree
BUUUUUUUUUURRRRRRRRRRRRRRNNN!
>> No. 35998
>>35980
♥ I now have even more faith in you than before. Your game is looking great, the kart designs are awesome.

A nod here and there? sure. (ie flux cpacitor) There is absolutely no need to resort to in-jokes and memes in your game design.

You guys got this.
>> No. 36013
There is something that has been on my mind for a while now.

Will the game have ghost races? I worry if the game is sync stable. That is, it doesn't get influenced by external factors and any randomness is fixed.
>> No. 36019
>>36013
really bad framerate does affect the physics (mostly on my end where it can get pretty laggy), so for ghosts I was thinking of doing something similar to how multiplayer karts might work, where you sorta save their state every 1/4 second or so, then use the physics engine to interpolate between them
>> No. 36025
>>36019
Why can't you record the keypresses and play them back? Or is that where they randomness would come in?
>> No. 36028
>>36025
because you wouldn't get the same result every time. It's nondeterministic.
>> No. 36033
>>36028
I guess I wanted more of a 'why' you don't get the same results every time. No worries.
>> No. 36034
Just so you know the reason I ask is that we have replays of our online matches that are only 20 kb in size but are sometimes 40 minutes or so long. And that's at 100 ticks per second over the net with many many inputs per second from each player. I was wondering where the randomness or lost data would come from (because obviously even one missed input or timing would throw out the following inputs until it was just a complete desync).
>> No. 36035
The reason you can't do that is because of the way the physics engine updates- while you would get a fairly close approximation of the track data, it wouldn't be exact, because there's not a guaranteed chance that the engine will decide the exact same thing every single time (This can be due to rounding, the speed of your computer, ect).

And while it isn't an issue now, if there are moving stage hazards, they may collide with the kart, and cause other weird desyncing issues.

Hoppip's idea- a deterministic waypoint system- would work much better in the long run, because the kart would consistently end up in the same place, and if some weird thing happened, then (I presume) the kart could teleport to where it needs to be (only if there's no way the game's engine can find where it needs to be on time)

In fact, most games tend to use a hybrid of the two systems- waypoints and inputs. Inputs are processed as they happen and, every once in a while (say every 10 seconds) an absolute location is checked against the server, and if they match, great. If they don't, that's when you get "rubber banding", which is the usual term MMOs use.
>> No. 36037
>>36033
I dunno, ask the physics engine. I'm guessing it's because my framerate fluctuates, the physics fluctuates a bit. I'm already using its thing to make render speed decoupled from physics speed but it can only do so much.

On fast computers where you get 60FPS all the time, you'll still get a few differences here and there between runs but for the most part they'd be more similar.

>that are only 20 kb in size but are sometimes 40 minutes or so long
yeah, whereas for us the races would be around 5-7 minutes, recording at fewer intervals.

>I was wondering where the randomness or lost data would come from (because obviously even one missed input or timing would throw out the following inputs until it was just a complete desync).
We could also just timestap each recording, convert each timestap to a "local" value, and save that.
>> No. 36039
>>36037
Hmm. I guess the coupling of the physics calcs to the framerate does kinda throw a spanner into the works.
>> No. 36069
I do not see why the physics would be nondeterministic. Just cut back on the rendering if you can't do both physics and rendering. Or failing that, let the game take a speed hit.

The issue with trying to fake things with periodic sampling is the loss of precision. One can get away with this in multiplayer, but for competitive purposes full determinism is required.

It is a trade off between correctness and easy implementation.

You can cheat and get a decent result that mostly works, or you can get it right and spend ten times the effort on it, but it will be rock solid.

In a game where competitive people count their leads in milliseconds one really need high accuracy.

There is also the tampering resistance in the different formats. It is easy to cheat with sampling, but recorded input is unquestionable.

There is also the implementation complexity. Swapping out the input source is easy compared to adding a full interpolation mess. The real cost is the higher demands on the rest of the system.

In fact, having a swappable input system is very handy. You can let the game fully ignore if it is a local human, a recording, a networked player or a computer player. All it knows is that it is input in a given format. It also stops computer players from cheating.

Of course, the fact that recorded input is very compression friendly is an advantage, but we already established that it is an insignificant one.
>> No. 36123
File 133298276222.jpg - (941.01KB , 1275x837 , HellYeahMotherFucker.jpg )
36123
well I dunno why but a recent update to the physics engine helped fix a problem we were having

in the meantime, we put the WTW trees into SAA to see how they would look ingame
>> No. 36132
File 133299125670.png - (74.71KB , 178x264 , Toph_Anticipation.png )
36132
>>36123
Well I can tell from that instance of time, it feels too bright, however, the game's brightness and contrast settings (Hopefully they're included :P) should fix that.
>> No. 36133
>>36123

where are dem apples?

but seriously: Autumn on Sweet Apple Acres looks glorious!
>> No. 36134
>>36123
Jeez, the red trees are blindingly bright. xD They look really good, otherwise, though!
>> No. 36154
>>36069
physics engines seem to be notoriously unreliable in terms of being predictable though. I remember watching the commentary for portal 2, for their aerial faith plates they basically had to turn off physics for them and move them manually to make sure they'd always end up in the correct position.

I mean even stuff in real life isn't reliable all the time. Do the same experiment 100 times and you'll get slightly different results each time
>> No. 36164
>>36154

Actually, Physics engines *are* deterministic. What you're seeing is a result of float point precision rounding errors.

Normally, each new frame, games record the time from last beginning-of-frame. This is called its time delta, or dt. This dt is fed into the various modules (like physics) to simulate for that amount of time. Given an initial state and some dt, any physics engine worth its salt will always produce the exact same output. This is the definition of deterministic behavior.

The reason ghosts are slowly getting out of sync is because you're simulating their behavior with *different* dts than the original recording was simulating with. Effectively:

g_Physics.Update(.5f);
g_Physics.Update(.5f);

Will *not* produce the same output as:

g_Physics.Update(1.f);

This is due to floating point precision errors. Just google that for loads and loads of information regarding it.

>We could also just timestap each recording, convert each timestap to a "local" value, and save that.

That can work. You should be wary of saving player state in the replay file, though. With position + orientation, with standing 3vectors, that's at least 24 bytes per waypoint. It's more work, but much more space efficient to just save the dts at which the original recording was simulated at. You can then interpolate through dt values so that you always stay within some unnoticeable and self-correcting epsilon. Then it won't matter if you hitch badly while watching a ghost.
>> No. 36165
>>36164
With bullet, you tell the whole engine to step with X time. You can't just apply it to one object, in this case the ghost vehicle.

At least, not that I'm aware of.
>> No. 36167
>>36165

Short answer: That sucks.

Long answer: Waypoints it is?

Crazy answer: Save the game state prior to update, update with ghost dt, save the ghost data, revert to beginning game state and update normally, superimpose ghost data.
>> No. 36178
>>36167
I have an insane setup.

It is running two instances of the physics engine. If it is as simple as constructing two instances or as complicated as running multiple processes will determinate how insane this idea is.

The real problem with ghosts is that you can't let them interact with the current gameplay. Stuff that can be hit and react in response to the hit will either have to be removed or locked into some predetermined state (possibly changing only over time).
>> No. 36204
>>36178

That shouldn't be an issue. You have to be able to define collision rules somehow--you just need a new one for ghosts.

Although, that will bring up its own problems of ghosts interacting with non-item mutable objects. You wouldn't want them pushing open the barn doors--you just want them simulating as though they have.
>> No. 36208
>>36204
I can always put them in a separate collision group so they don't interact with anything movable.
>> No. 36213
Youtube embed play button
  >>36208
And as such, the ghosts will now pass thru solid matter. And forget about trying to sync up recorded input then.

Anyway, to change the subject, there is another thing I have been worrying about. How does the game know when the player has completed a lap? Counting the number of times the starting line has been passed has been proven again and again to not be sufficient.

Perhaps this could be rolled into the AI goal system? If the player keeps following the goals then there is no chance of taking unauthorized shortcuts.
>> No. 36223
>>36213
No I mean... they can collide with the track and static things like trees and the barn, but I'll just make them pass through movable stuff like apple carts and barn doors.

>laps
I was going to tie it into the trigger region system, as well as the 1st, 2nd, etc place systems (which can just use simple trig)
>> No. 36284
Can we customize our own karts?

Like buy unique upgrades for the kart and/or driver.

It would be great if there was some metagame and theorycrafting involved where there are multiple options and choices for a kart's loadout.
>> No. 36319
>>36284
I would assume getting the 6 basic karts going first will be enough hard work for now.

From what we're hearing it sounds like every time something is fixed another problem pops up like a twisted game of 'Wack-a-mole'.
>> No. 36320
>>36284
I'm personally not a fan of customising in multiplayer. Should be skill against skill (while trying to minimise luck with your item system so people don't game it)
>> No. 36838
File 133413598343.png - (454.30KB , 640x480 , RD_render12_angle1_1.png )
36838
working on making acceleration and stuff better, tweaking the kart so it handles nicely on WTW, also working on fixing drifting

also dash's kart is finished
>> No. 36839
File 133413606999.png - (412.00KB , 640x480 , TS_render14_angle1_1.png )
36839
twilight's got an upgrade too

I'll post the rest later
>> No. 36842
>>36838


looks very "dashy" , good work , mate!
>> No. 36855
File 133416139888.png - (301.38KB , 725x524 , sorofwantWANT.png )
36855
>>36838
>>36839
>> No. 36888
File 133419148981.png - (405.60KB , 1280x800 , Ponykart_04122012_001133330.png )
36888
PEOPLE KEPT ASKING WHETHER SHE WAS GOING TO BE A DRIVER

WE DIDN’T RESPOND

BECAUSE THE ANSWER WAS ALWAYS “NO”
>> No. 36890
File 133419202664.png - (409.23KB , 1280x800 , Ponykart_04122012_001222835.png )
36890
>> No. 36891
File 133419231136.png - (436.44KB , 1280x800 , Ponykart_04122012_001300147.png )
36891
>> No. 36894
>>36888
Perfect impartial race official!
>> No. 36896
>>36890
>>36891

She saw what you did there.
... and over there too.
>> No. 36921
> Attempt by security transparent method 'Ponykart.Launch.Main()' to access security critical method 'System.AppDomain.add_UnhandledException(System.UnhandledExceptionEventHandler)' failed.
>> No. 36928
>>36921
had a friend poke around last night who thought it would be a brilliant idea to work on distribution methods when this thing is nowhere near finished
>> No. 36933
>>36921
>>36928
should be fixed now
>> No. 36965
For those who doesn't check svn regularly, work has begun on a new level. It's horribly broken and unplayable. But it is looking promising.

Oh, and crazy geometry land got more geometry a while ago. It's a fun level to mess around in.

I will leave all screenshots/videos to the professionals, since they know when stuff is worth sharing.
>> No. 36981
>>36965 They also added Wiimote support. Any details on how to get one connected and working with Ponykart? Syncing SVN on my home PC via ssh, so can't really see if there is any documentation in the files.
>> No. 36994
>>36981
put "Controller=WiiMote" in your %appdata%/ponykart/options.ini

otherwise I have no idea. I didn't do the wiimote stuff so I don't know how to get it set up
>> No. 37013
>>36994
Thanks. I noticed that there is no motion control and requires a nunchuck. Have you thought of setting up a system like gerrit where people could contribute small code updates that could be helpful?
>> No. 37021
>>37013
>I noticed that there is no motion control and requires a nunchuck.
have you TRIED using mariokart's motion controls? shit is impossible to control

>Have you thought of setting up a system like gerrit where people could contribute small code updates that could be helpful?
Never heard of garrit, but if you want to contribute then you can add stuff to it and email it to me if you want. If you want to be a regular contributor (and I see that you're somepony who knows what he's doing) then I can give you repo write permissions
>> No. 37045
>>36838
Go speed racer GO!
>> No. 37069
>>37021
I strongly disagree, the motion controls in mariokart wii are excellent.
>> No. 37073
>>33758
This seems awesome!
>> No. 37074
File 133454168142.jpg - (82.09KB , 695x715 , baw.jpg )
37074
>>36888
>NO DERPY DRIVER
>> No. 37075
File 133454171863.jpg - (82.09KB , 695x715 , baw.jpg )
37075
>>36888
>NO DERPY DRIVER
>> No. 37085
>>37069
hmm, I just found them frustrating

>>37074
we already said in the FAQ that all playable characters will be ones that have had a major role in the show. Main characters first, then secondaries (spike, CMC, etc), then side characters (cheerilee, etc) and lastly if there's any room, characters with an episode centred around them (gilda, diamond dogs, etc)

we're keeping as much fandom stuff out of this as we can
>> No. 37090
>>37085
Hahaha. That's very obivous lie.
You're just afraid of Yamino, don't you?
>> No. 37095
File 133460557021.png - (74.62KB , 318x331 , 131281577887.png )
37095
>>37069
I agree. I was surprised by how good the wiimote controls were (expecting them to be utter shit).

Although I still prefer the controller.
>> No. 37096
>>37090
no we just don't like bronies

what were you expecting? Nyx to be playable?
>> No. 37154
File 133470196642.png - (96.24KB , 197x200 , wario.png )
37154
>>37096
>no we just don't like bronies
>making a pony game
>expect the fanbase to be anything but
>> No. 37157
>>37154
I know what he means I think. I think he's saying that he doesn't count the brony fan-made characters as real characters worthy of a priority spot in the game. The term 'brony' now carries baggage with it. Like how I play a lot of games and like games but I wouldn't call myself a 'gamer'.

Nyx is obviously a complete fan-fabrication, but 'characters' like Colgate or Lyra or Doctor Whooves don't actually exist in the show. Their character description rarely goes any further than their colours and cutie mark.

So they are focusing on the characters that actually HAVE character first.
>> No. 37164
File 133470674700.png - (953.63KB , 1489x840 )
37164
>>37085
>FAQ
Heh, sorry about that. I edited some of your posts to clean up the mess, hope that's cool
>> No. 37202
>>37157
bingo

>>37164
thanks!
>> No. 37219
File 133478054080.jpg - (18.73KB , 465x446 , dafuq.jpg )
37219
>>37096
> no we just don't like bronies
wait what
i dont even

> what were you expecting? Nyx to be playable?
what
we just want derpy
derpy as a secret/hidden character won't hurt

>>37157
derpy appeared as a "character" in one episode, though her origin is thanks to bronies.
>> No. 37221
>>37219
>derpy appeared as a "character" in one episode, though her origin is thanks to bronies.

The kart game was started well before that episode aired. They have a list of characters they want in for sure, then they'll worry about all the non-main characters, or not, depending if they have time/energy.

It might be stink that your favourite bg pony doesn't get in but their reasons are totally understandable.
>> No. 37222
>>37219
some people now feel the need to painstakingly differanciate between "bronies" and "people who watch ponies". so some seem to think "bronies" are obnoxious jerks, as opposed to "pony fans". don't ask me, it's a thing which spawned on /mlp/ as far as I know.

I like jay's "gamer" analogy. if somepony plays video games he's a cool dude, if somepony's a "gamer" he'll be seen as an obnoxious egghead by some. but in all honesty, the only difference is that the "gamer" uses the term "gamer" to refer to himself.

don't make this harder than it has to be everypony. I don't call myself a "gamer" either, though I figure I'd kind of pass for one. I wouldn't object if somepony refered to me as such. I know I play video games like hell. same with "brony". in the end I don't really care for what terminology is supposed to be cool at the moment. the majority still counts "bronies" as "people who watch FiM", so please don't make a fuss about it. it's kind of fruitless, no one really even knows that he's not supposed to say "brony" anymore if he wants to be with the cool kids.

lookin atchu hoppip. "I don't like bronies but I watch FiM" sounds kind of hypocritical in that regard. like the often heard "I'm a fan but not part of the fandom" which is impossible by definition. in the end we all like ponies, some do more some do less, who cares about what you call it.

apart from that I really apreciate the decision to stay as canon as possible with this project. less alienating for people who aren't all that in touch with the fanbase, "brony" or not.
>> No. 37232
>>37222
it's a bit like how some people who like some furry art don't want to call themselves furries because then you just label yourself with a group of people you don't like

brony doesn't really mean "fan of the show" any more, at least internally. As this fandom's gotten bigger and bigger it sustains itself on fandom content more than show stuff. Hell, some people who work at EqD even admit that the fandom is their main focus and the show just takes a back seat. "Brony"'s kinda changed to become that sort of fan

I want ponykart to be as accurate to canon as it can get. No completely made up places (with the possible exception of some rainbow road clone since it's pretty much obligatory at this point to have one in a kart game), and all characters need to be important to the show, whether that's being a main character, a side character, or a one-shot character that played a significant part in an episode.

Background ponies will stay as just that, background ponies, but they'll still be helping out. An idea I had was that item boxes would be "respawned" by background ponies on the sides of the track, either dropping, throwing, or levitating them in from off the side
>> No. 37235
I am curious, can we get an ortographical top down render of ssa? It would be nice to see how the track curves and such.
>> No. 37236
You're making a fan game. You're beyond just "fan of the show" now; whatever brony means, you are one.
>> No. 37239
>>37232
>it's a bit like how some people who like some furry art don't want to call themselves furries because then you just label yourself with a group of people you don't like

not sure if you get my drift. that's just the same thing, exactly. and you don't think it's kind of hypocritcal?

I mean you're on /mlp/ every now and then. hell, you're working on a *pony fan game*. what exactly seperates you from a "brony" besides the completely understandable reason that you don't want to get those negative connotations that are affiliated with the term? you're not a brony because you don't like the term. that's the only reason. it's cool. that's why I don't consider myself a "brony" either. but you can't possibly dislike people only because they are "bronies" while you are not because... people like you dislike them.

expressing opposal is almost comical. you dislike bronies because of the negative connotations? which only exist because you actively spread them? it's like if I played video games all the time and said "gamers suck". because I don't like "gamers" because I don't like the term because people don't like "gamers". get what I'm talking about? it's a completely irrational depreciation which exists only because 4chan is terribly good at creating irrational hate out of nothing.

come ooon man. I had you figured to be cooler than that. please don't say that you dislike bronies. it just looks really off.


sorry for off topic. looking forward to the game etc etc
>> No. 37240
File 133480323254.png - (155.81KB , 1206x1452 , BoltFreaked1E.png )
37240
...I...I'm completely fine with Derpy as a race official... >__>
>> No. 37242
>>37239
I'm pretty sure he was being slightly cheeky when he said he didn't like bronies. Probably just to get a rise.

I wouldn't read too much into the "don't like bronies" throwaway comment. His later points made it clear what he meant.

I relate fully since I am totally out of the loop when it comes to things like EQD, pony music, fanart, fanfiction, music vids, mashups, and god knows what. I don't know the names of 90% of the BG ponies because they don't have any in the show. And I certainly don't know any of their fanon personalities. And I'm the guy who designed the mlp subreddit reddit pony (although I didn't name her), made the desktop pony base sprites/animations that the rest have built up from (and make up approximately 30% of all deviantart avatars it seems!), and am one of the artists/devs on Fighting is Magic. I do not self-label as a brony, but don't really mind the term that much.

All I got from Hoppip as the lead developer is that the game may make a few brony in-jokes and nods to the fanbase, but that for the most part they are keeping it really accessible to everypony.
>> No. 37243
>>37242
>everypony

I don't even write "everypony" :P
>> No. 37244
File 133480558965.png - (74.71KB , 178x264 , Toph_Anticipation.png )
37244
>>37243
You should :P
>> No. 37246
>>37242
you're probably right. sometimes I do have this tendency to get bugged by the most minor things. I guess in the end we're all on the same page anyway.

also wow you sure do lots of cool stuff. didn't even realize that.
>> No. 37256
File 133482440014.png - (689.31KB , 659x871 , SAA MapRegions.png )
37256
>>37235
there's this, though it's a bit old
>> No. 37258
File 133482468525.jpg - (149.11KB , 1238x645 , livingthedream.jpg )
37258
>>37239
it's more I dislike the "fan of the fandom" people, like the ones who don't treat the show as canon if it conflicts with their fanfictions, the ones who go around treating pony as some sort of lifestyle instead of just a show they enjoy, the ones who cried at my little dashie, etc etc. You know, those people.

>>37243
word filters
>> No. 37281
File 133484603606.gif - (1.56MB , 680x383 , If-Fluttershy-had-fingers-my-little-pony-friendship-is-magic-29684849-680-383.gif )
37281
My face when the executable detects if it's moved after compilation, forcing me to install VS2010 on my gaming rig.
>> No. 37299
>>37256
Perfect. I don't even have to slap on region splits myself.

To go back to the previous discussion about not rendering everything.

Let's say that the player is in the region called "bridge". Then the engine can completely skip rendering the following regions, "start", "ramp", "buckets", "cliff" and "river". This since the player can't possibly see into the regions.

However, the issue I worry about here is that the level geometry is not split according to these regions, it is all just a few big models (see models/SSA/track for the exact ones used). If the geometry was split into zones then only the geometry belonging to visible zones would be rendered.

And quite frankly, that is a lot less geometry. Meaning higher framerates.
>> No. 37300
>>37281
You really should learn how to program, then it would be easy to defeat the protection.
>> No. 37307
>>37300
I know how to program. I just don't have the time to dig through the source. I'm throwing a season finale party, of which a Ponykart tournament is going to be one of the attractions, hopefully, and there are still a lot of preparations to do.
>> No. 37332
File 133491588102.png - (0.98MB , 1500x997 , wtw_mountains.png )
37332
>>37299
That's the general idea of what we'll be doing for WTW. The problem with SAA is that the middle area is still pretty flat and it's really easy to see the rest of the track from any other point on the track. Even from the ramp area, you can still see the barn, and from the cliff area you can still see the treehouse.

If I completely skipped rendering them, then you'd just see a big hole in the world. This is one of the reasons why I say SAA has such bad design - pretty much every other kart track ever has some sort of barrier in the middle of the track or other points to make sure you're never in a situation where it would even be possible to see very much of the rest of the track.

WTW, for example, has a whole bunch of hills and stuff in the middle, and we'll also be putting smaller hills and large rocks in other positions so you're not rendering very much at any one time. (pic related)

With SAA, all we can really do to help the framerate is just replace some of the far-off trees with billboards, or hide some of the smaller objects such as apples, buckets, hay bales, etc, which we already do.
>> No. 37334
>>37332

It is easy to cover those spots up.Start by assuming that people won't be able to see thru a forest of trees.

And even if you don't completely succeed in covering the spots up, the cost of just rendering the few spots you missed is vastly less than rendering everything.

A perfect solution is not needed here, just a rough solution is a major improvement. So what if you miss 10 % of the stuff you'd be able to cull? You still culled 90 % of the stuff that wasn't useful!

But if you can't cull the parts of the ground/track/whatever that can't be seen since it is all unbroken objects then you are missing out on the major offenders*.

Of course, there is also all those darn trees, low poly*2 or not, that is a lot of objects.

There is also the fact that people are not going to notice a building across the map missing in the corner of their eyes when they are actually racing. It is wrong, yet no one is going to care.

*I would like to see an in game chart that plots exactly which objects the triangles are coming from. You can't optimize what you can't measure properly.

*2 Can't get much lower poly than a billboard, but still.
>> No. 37335
>>37334
...are we talking about WTW or SAA? Because SAA's eventually going to be remade anyway, since it's such a short track and isn't suited to the kart speed increase we've done. I dunno if you've noticed, but the karts on WTW are a lot faster than SAA -- about 40% faster I think. (People felt that the original speed was too slow)
>> No. 37336
File 133492443680.jpg - (11.93KB , 227x270 , red stripe.jpg )
37336
A general question here GENERAL QUESTION is this just a re-skin of Mario kart or is this a new game from the bottom up?
>> No. 37338
>>37336
the latter, though obviously it uses a lot of mariokart (and other games like diddy kong racing, etc)'s ideas
>> No. 37355
File 133497823885.png - (50.03KB , 209x217 , Toph_Heya.png )
37355
>>37332
There's nothing I like more than concept art updates. It's awesome man.
>> No. 37358
At this point, it's pretty much impossible to make a kart game that DOESN'T rip off Mario Kart. Just having "Kart" in the name makes it an auto-rip off. It just how the world of games work...
>> No. 37366
>>37335
I am talking about SSA of course. As for being remade, I don't think it is needed. It is a nice level that only needs some minor tweaks (that I have already outlined) for the performance.

I find the speed fine. But no, I don't tend to notice minor things on not even testable levels. I notice things like "the game doesn't crash on loading it" and "there is a big pile of nothing after the first curve".
>> No. 37374
>>37366
Open up media/scripts/levels/SweetAppleAcres/init.lua and comment out
kart.MaxSpeed = kart.MaxSpeed / 1.4


then try to drive around on SAA

you'll see what I mean
>> No. 37375
>>37374
(comments for lua are double hypen, by the way)
>> No. 37441
File 133513267110.png - (26.01KB , 1346x586 , Untitled-1.png )
37441
Here's a chart showing relative importance to each character.
>> No. 37447
>>37441
without context this doesn't mean much. Is this a chart for the ponykart game characters? What are M and B? Was this the list they had to choose from (ie why aren't certain ponies on there)? What does priority "49" mean?
>> No. 37448
File 133513728511.png - (106.42KB , 229x362 , Toph_But_Thats_Wrong.png )
37448
>>37447
Well if you used SOME sort of common sense you would come to a conclusion that fits rather easily. Basically goes over which characters are in each episode.

Y - Yes
N - No
B - Background
Unsure of M but it only appears once.

And the "49.0" is obviously the amount of episodes that the charcater is significant in. I can assume that the "0.5" are the result of being a background character without lines. They simply appear but have no significance.

It has nothing to do with Ponykart I can assume.
>> No. 37449
File 133513751308.png - (130.97KB , 375x398 , Toph_Smile_No_Headband.png )
37449
>>37448
Oooooh I get it.

M means "Mentioned" I can tell because of all the M's smeared across Celestia's board.
>> No. 37450
>>37441
Interesting. I personally like the charts that show screentime to rank importance because while derpy has appeared in a lot of episodes, I would put her importance to the show below Sweetie Belle and Scootaloo. Plus Zecora would be ranked a bit higher.
>> No. 37454
>>37448
Oh so that's why it's here...
Oh wait, you forgot to explain that part. That's my point about context.
It was introduced as "relative importance to each character."

It's also ignoring any pony that wasn't in more than one episode even if they had a speaking part/major role in an episode.

I guess I'm just wondering if this has any relevance to anything to do with ponykart.
>> No. 37455
File 133514261481.png - (107.30KB , 370x369 , Toph_T__T.png )
37455
>>37454
Oh man... That's aggravating...
>> No. 37456
>>37441
I PROOOOOOOOOBably should have included a legend or so.

Y - At least one appearance where the character is the focus of a shot
B - Background appearance or an appearance where the character is not the focus
M - No appearance, but a mention by name or title
N - No appearance and no mention by name or title

The number 1-52 is the episode they appear in.

I added the formula in the table. If they've appeared in an episode they get +1, if they're in the background or mentioned they get +0.5
>> No. 37458
>>37454
>It's also ignoring any pony that wasn't in more than one episode even if they had a speaking part/major role in an episode.

I'm not going to go to each episode and record how long each pony were on the screen for; be reasonable here.
>> No. 37459
File 133514320198.png - (44.90KB , 160x178 , Toph_Win.png )
37459
>>37456
Ha! So I was mostly right!

That's a really good chart man! Saved.

>>37458
I wouldn't expect you to do that either. That's ludicrous...
>> No. 37462
It isn't an objective by any means, just a slightly useful measure how notable a pony is.

If you scratch out Derpy, the actually noteworthy characters are Spike, Princess Celestia, Big Macintosh and the Cutie Mark Crusaders.
>> No. 37463
You haven't updated in a while...is everything OK?
>> No. 37464
>>37462
That kinda depends on what threshold you pick.

Of course, we could argue all summer if the set criteria is fit or not. I got more fun stuff to argue about myself, so you are on your own there.
>> No. 37467
>>37458
I'm not going to go to each episode and record how long each pony were on the screen for; be reasonable here.

It wasn't a request, don't worry.. I still don't even know the relevance of the graph. The only relevance I can see if it's about the discussion about characters to include, in which case it misses out major roles that were only in one episode, such as Trixie, Little strongheart, Gilda etc. That's all.

>>37462
as Realism said, this is a metric of appearances, not how notable they are.

>>37455
>Oh man... That's aggravating...
>>37448
>Well if you used SOME sort of common sense you would come to a conclusion that fits rather easily.

You aren't Toph. There was no reason to be rude here. It's not cute.
>> No. 37470
>>37458
I think he was meaning to say that the number of apearances doesn't necessarily relate to something as subjective as "importance in the show", seeing how some would definitely count trixie or gilda for example as more "important" than say somepony like twist who didn't really do or say all that much despite showing up in more episodes.
>> No. 37474
>>37454
>I guess I'm just wondering if this has any relevance to anything to do with ponykart.
I don't think so

>>37463
yeah, it's just exam season for a lot of people right now
>> No. 37516
File 133522876282.png - (222.15KB , 640x480 , Toph_Apple_Argument.png )
37516
>>37467
I don't find that there's a reason to be so anal about it. THAT'S not cute. Look, I know you don't like me, but that's just being ridiculously over analytical.
>> No. 37525
Wow I missed a lot.

Yeah, anypony who gets too into the fanon is a retard. I think it's really dumb of Hasbro/Studio B to have put fanon references in the show and toys. Derpy Hooves? Fair enough, that was excellent, but the Lyra toy? NO! Now people are freaking out and they think Lyra is canon, when in actual fact Lyra is as insignificant and randomly placed as an extra in any other TV show. As Monkeyjay said, they're not a character IF THEY DON'T HAVE CHARACTER!

I would think that Bon Bon having a different personality and voice every time she appears would make this incredibly obvious, but no, the fandom have found a way to abuse this too., citing throat infections and multiple personalities as potential reasons.

Speaking of Monkeyjay,
>>37467
>You aren't Toph.
FINALLY SOMEPONY HAD THE GUTS TO SAY IT.

Damn it Rellek and Stormbolt, stop wasting server space and bandwidth on "emoticons" that nopony clicks. It's in really poor taste.
>> No. 37526
File 133525051699.gif - (6.62KB , 690x190 , faggot.gif )
37526
>>37525
I will stab that word filter with a rusty spoon.
>> No. 37529
>>37526
Well you ARE on ponychan :P

>>37525
And as you wish, my liege.
>> No. 37532
>>37525
I don't really mind the silly fanon stuff as long as people recognise that it's just fanon and will never be canon, but eh, whatever

>but the Lyra toy
looking at the other ponies in that "set", I get the impression they just picked a bunch of random background characters and made brushables of them. If they were doing it because of bronies, they would've done a bonbon too since most art of lyra features them both
>> No. 37546
>>37532
>I don't really mind the silly fanon stuff as long as people recognise that it's just fanon and will never be canon, but eh, whatever
I feel exactly the same. In a fanon context I actually rather like some of the more popular background ponies, including Lyra, but when making something that's intended to be show canon, these fan-defined ponies simply have no place in any important roles.

But anyway, I'll try and shut up about it now.
>> No. 37638
File 133540560352.jpg - (36.78KB , 477x361 , 3oz3j0.jpg )
37638
>>37474
>I don't think so
>> No. 37759
I changed vehicle handling a bunch yesterday, could those of you who follow the repository give it a shot in WTW and tell me what you think
>> No. 37763
>>37759

I can really feel the difference and I like it. It feels a bit more 'realistic'.
>> No. 37765
I love the new handling, that's just what it needed to be fun.

SAA loads fine for me but WTW gives

00:25:11: OGRE EXCEPTION(2:InvalidParametersException): Sky box material 'saa_sky' not found. in SceneManager::setSkyBox at C:\Mogre\Main\OgreSrc\ogre\OgreMain\src\OgreSceneManager.cpp (line 1714)

Also suggestion: Have Derpy move back and forth or around relative to the kart a little because otherwise it looks like she's kind of pinned to your monitor in 2D and not there in the level at all, really disconcerting feeling.
>> No. 37768
The amount of times a character appears shouldn't be used to determine how important a character is. There are a few notable characters like Luna or Zecora that just have rather poor luck with screen time despite them being big characters.
>> No. 37786
>>37765
update and try it now

also derpy will normally only appear for a few seconds at a time, and you don't want her to move around on the screen too much so you can read what her sign says (once she gets one)
>> No. 37788
>>37786
I like the idea of her having a sign, I think you guys can have allot of fun with that.

Driving does feel nice but I'm getting allot more lag on SAA now. This dosn't appear to happen on any of the test levels or WTW.

Also I may just be looking at it weird but is that a flux capacitor on the back of twilights kart?
>> No. 37790
>>37786

Works now. And yeah it won't be a problem once Derpy is made to only be there temporarily.
>> No. 37805
Will you be posting an update video soon hoppip?
>> No. 37816
>>37805
once we get enough to show off
>> No. 37859
a new track would be nice... not complaining, no never.
>> No. 37861
File 133587571558.png - (1.00MB , 1887x2108 , tscratch.png )
37861
Hoppip, can you look what is the problem at this line (in CollisionShapeManager.cs:
foreach (string file in files) {
bulletFiles.Add(Path.GetFileNameWithoutExtension(file), file);
}
I get an error which says that 'An item with the same key has already been added', error from debug console:
>A first chance exception of type 'System.ArgumentException' occurred in mscorlib.dll
>> No. 37876
>>37861
try it now
>> No. 38028
>>37876
Hoppip, is the multiplayer protocol working ? i tried it (using 2 pcs on my LAN), and when i try to connect i get an 'Destination array was not long enough' error. (in the PonykartPacket.cs, in 'public byte = 1 ToBytes()', the Type and the Contents array)
>> No. 38031
>>38028
haven't tried it, but no I don't think so
>> No. 38044
File 133624521097.png - (1.17MB , 1920x1200 , Ponykart_05052012_190358834.png )
38044
aaaaaand finished
>> No. 38045
File 133624530352.png - (1.15MB , 1920x1200 , Ponykart_05052012_190532222.png )
38045
>> No. 38046
File 133624566874.png - (1.30MB , 1920x1200 , Ponykart_05052012_190618449.png )
38046
>> No. 38048
File 133624591803.png - (1.29MB , 1920x1200 , Ponykart_05052012_190638605.png )
38048
>> No. 38052
File 133625104471.png - (288.89KB , 615x438 , Toph_Youre_Lying1.png )
38052
>>38048
Progress!
>> No. 38054
>>38045
>XL-SIOR

All of my YES.
>> No. 38057
>>38054
Care to explain the reference to me?
>> No. 38081
>>38057
A class of (and actual) star ship in Star Trek.
>> No. 38082
File 133630720998.png - (642.35KB , 766x864 , Untitled.png )
38082
hey hey hey (dont come in my shed).Are you going to add any backround character except derpy ? (vinyl :D)
>> No. 38084
>>38081
that's not it

>>38082
they will be in the background where they belong
>> No. 38093
File 133631506256.png - (757.67KB , 1366x768 , spoiler.png )
38093
>>38084
It will be so awesome when you add other backround ponies too.Can't wait to play with them (I know you are not going to impelent it, but i can add it myself if i want to play with them, like in the pic
>> No. 38120
File 133634562856.png - (31.79KB , 127x172 , Toph_Toast.png )
38120
>>38057
>>38084
Eeeexcelsior! YAH!
>> No. 38160
>>38093
how do you do that?
>> No. 38166
>>38160
There are 2 ways to do that, replace Twilight model with Lyra, or go deep in the code and add it yourself.
>> No. 38172
>>38057
It's a fancy word meaning "higher", or more colloquially "strive to be better", often used as a rallying cry. Both of which are quite appropriate for Dash.
>> No. 38322
>>38172
Google isn't helping at all
>> No. 38639
Any news lately?
>> No. 38656
>>38639
not really, sorry ;__;
>> No. 38918
new thread >>38917
>> No. 43664
>>35603
I still get this even though I try and compile it myself. Please help as me and my sister wish to play multiplayer!
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