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File 136110229032.png - (184B , 400x300 , screenshot.png )
44143 No. 44143
Hiya /collab/. Long time no see. Have a pony game (in flash).

http://ccccnews.herokuapp.com/

and a quickstart/walkthrough guide

http://cccc.herokuapp.com/topic/2
Unspoiler all text  • Expand all images  • Reveal spoilers
>> No. 44146
First, it's devoid of visual content. People like visual content. Your nothing saying "screenshot" sure doesn't make this topic memorable either. But at least it is honest.

Second, it is unclear what the game IS from your description. It's a game about building math expressions. It's questionable if that qualifies as entertainment.

Third, this board is mostly about finding help, not really about presenting finished projects.

Fourth, none or useless preloader. It's impossible to understand that the game is loading.

Last edited at Sun, Feb 17th, 2013 08:23

>> No. 44161
It is not clear how a player is supposed to derive the two correct numbers. I can somewhat understand how to play, so I can win a few rounds, but it's frustrating to lose rounds when I'm not sure if I'm even playing correctly.

The voice acting (Rina-chan) and music (DasDeer) are very nice.

On the main menu, when a number is selected, Twilight says to press Enter. If Star is pressed instead, then the number is cancelled, but Twilight still says to press Enter when she should probably be repeating the menu options again.
>> No. 44164
Okay, after playing a bit with visuals on, I think I have a better understanding of how the game works. It's not very intuitive, and it's also not easy to explain with only audio. Clearer instructions and some examples would help. Like, it's not stated anywhere that there can be more than one correct answer, that the operands can be in any order, etc.

The visuals really help to understand how the game's logic is supposed to work. Having the four numbers on the screen combine into the given answer and then to 24 greatly helps.
>> No. 44165
>>44161

> It is not clear how a player is supposed to derive the two correct numbers. I can somewhat understand how to play, so I can win a few rounds, but it's frustrating to lose rounds when I'm not sure if I'm even playing correctly.

This did come up before. Different parts seems to confuse and frustrate different players. I don't know of a good way to fix this (without adding any non-audio). I'm considering posting the instructions audio file separately but I don't know if that will help or make it worse. Or maybe if enough people have trouble with the same part, I'll know what (and how) to improve.

Although it also looks like you understood enough to be the third person (except me and tester) to win on the first level (unless someone else happens to have also recently won).

> The voice acting (Rina-chan) and music (DasDeer) are very nice.

They really did an outstanding job!

> On the main menu, when a number is selected, Twilight says to press Enter. If Star is pressed instead, then the number is cancelled, but Twilight still says to press Enter when she should probably be repeating the menu options again.

You've absolutely right and I've updated the game with a fix.

>>44146

It seems like this post just states (known) characteristics of this game and an opinion. Opinions are useful so its noted.

If you want to persue your third point, feel free to take it up in /meta/ (or anywhere else really). I disagree but won't argue in this thread.
>> No. 44166
>>44164

Oops. I didn't notice you second reply before posting.

> It's not very intuitive, and it's also not easy to explain with only audio.

Yes, this is definitely a challenge from my perspective. (Well, I didn't think it was unintuitive but think I'm shown to be wrong.)

> Clearer instructions and some examples would help.

I've rewritten those instructions quite a bit and couldn't come up with anything better. I'm considering making separate audio clips with just more examples (because I don't know where to fit them ingame otherwise). I don't think I can really fit more than one example in a story.

> Like, it's not stated anywhere that there can be more than one correct answer, that the operands can be in any order, etc.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "in any order". Or rather I think I know what you are trying to say, but the way the instructions are said right now, this shouldn't even be a possible consideration. (Because there's no implied order and there isn't even a way to give one.)

Having more than one correct answer didn't come to mind as an issue but I can see that its ambiguous. Though, I'm curious to know how would the game change if there was only one answer (what's a possible set of rules where we end up with only one correct answer all the time).

> The visuals really help to understand how the game's logic is supposed to work. Having the four numbers on the screen combine into the given answer and then to 24 greatly helps.

This is what I was mostly afraid of, though. I'm very glad you took the time to try the non-visual version first. I figured if I'm going to add one optional visual element, this would be the one that helps the most.

I'm still unsure about it though. And its disabled in multiplayer mode (the game doesn't prevent you from opening two clients and connect them to each other if you want to test this).
>> No. 44169
>>44166

> I've rewritten those instructions quite a bit and couldn't come up with anything better. I'm considering making separate audio clips with just more examples (because I don't know where to fit them ingame otherwise). I don't think I can really fit more than one example in a story.

The instructions in the game doesn't have even one example of how to solve a problem. Unfortunately, I'm terrible at explaining things. I could probably type up an example right now, but it would be at least half a page long and nobody would want to listen to it, even with Rina-chan's dulcet voice.

The problem is, in order to know how to play, one has to visualize how to manipulate the numbers. But it's hard to visualize when one doesn't know how to play. In-game visuals would help with that, even if it's just for a tutorial.

Speaking of which, instead of having only instructions, make it an interactive tutorial. Include an easy example to help the player understand the gameplay.

> I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "in any order". Or rather I think I know what you are trying to say, but the way the instructions are said right now, this shouldn't even be a possible consideration. (Because there's no implied order and there isn't even a way to give one.)

The four numbers are given one after another in sequence, so when I first started playing, I assumed that the given order was significant.

> Having more than one correct answer didn't come to mind as an issue but I can see that its ambiguous. Though, I'm curious to know how would the game change if there was only one answer (what's a possible set of rules where we end up with only one correct answer all the time).

When one is solving arithmetical expressions, it's usually assumed that there will be only one correct answer. Obviously, this game does things differently.

> This is what I was mostly afraid of, though. I'm very glad you took the time to try the non-visual version first. I figured if I'm going to add one optional visual element, this would be the one that helps the most.

I think I can understand why you don't want to display any numbers. The game is just as much a memory game as it is a math game, and showing the numbers almost undermines the memory challenge. However, there is nothing stopping players from writing the numbers on paper or typing the numbers in Notepad, and I'm sure some players will do that even if you disable visuals.

I'm still kind of torn, though. It really would be nice to add some visuals to the game: some backgrounds, a title screen, simple cutscenes, dialogue boxes, the current round/puzzle number—just something to look at. On the other hand, all those graphics would also increase the size of the game, which is already pretty big with all the sound clips.
>> No. 44170
>>44166
What confused me at first was what that example was going for. I think the example needs to be taken to the end to see how the process went. you got 4 from 8-4 then 6 from 6/1 those 2 numbers 4 and 6 multiply together to get 24. It's simple now that I understand what it was going for.

I kind of like the visuals in that they remind me what the numbers were. If you want to keep it all non visual could you have a repeat the numbers option because I occasionally miss one.

Anyway I had fun with it.
>> No. 44172
>>44170

> If you want to keep it all non visual could you have a repeat the numbers option because I occasionally miss one.

You can press the + key to repeat the numbers. You can also press the * key to cancel your current answer (i.e. if you accidentally type a wrong number).
>> No. 44179
>> 44169
> The instructions in the game doesn't have even one example of how to solve a problem. Unfortunately, I'm terrible at explaining things. I could probably type up an example right now, but it would be at least half a page long and nobody would want to listen to it, even with Rina-chan's dulcet voice.

There is an example (see StarStep's reply >>44170).

> The problem is, in order to know how to play, one has to visualize how to manipulate the numbers. But it's hard to visualize when one doesn't know how to play. In-game visuals would help with that, even if it's just for a tutorial.

I think the main problem with adding visuals though (other than that I'd like the game to be complete with none at all) is that the more there is, the more is expected. If there are visuals in a tutorials, I think the player will ask why there isn't any in-game. This relates to your last comment.

> I'm still kind of torn, though. It really would be nice to add some visuals to the game: some backgrounds, a title screen, simple cutscenes, dialogue boxes, the current round/puzzle number—just something to look at. On the other hand, all those graphics would also increase the size of the game, which is already pretty big with all the sound clips.

I didn't make this apparent in my last post (I think I actually suggested otherwise) but the entire game (not only the part when playing rounds) is meant to be completely audio only. That was (part) of the point of making this game.

> Speaking of which, instead of having only instructions, make it an interactive tutorial. Include an easy example to help the player understand the gameplay.

I don't know how to make interactivity really help here though. If the answer is given to the player then they can just type it (and if they are still confused about the rules of the game then not giving them the answer will mean they are stuck, even on an easy example). I had a similar idea (with this not giving the answer version) but then noticed there isn't much difference between that and the first level. Game spoiler: Yes, easier numbers are chosen on the first level. They become harder later. Maybe the illusion of interactivity will help regardless. I don't know.

The other problem with interactivity is that I'd also have to teach the player how to interact (with the interactive tutorial) unless it only allows the same keys as the game itself.

I did consider making a separate (audio only) tutorial for the entire game though. (And this tutorial would talk about the game as if it was actually a game.)

> The four numbers are given one after another in sequence, so when I first started playing, I assumed that the given order was significant.

Now I see. I thought that you meant subtraction and division can be applied in two ways. I can see how this could be a problem (because sometimes there won't be an answer if interpreted this way). The example shows that this isn't the case with these rules but I'd rather not rely on it. That's also part of why I placed them in that weird shape in visual mode.

I'll try to think of a way to prevent this line of thinking.

> When one is solving arithmetical expressions, it's usually assumed that there will be only one correct answer. Obviously, this game does things differently.

I'm assuming by "solving arithmetical expressions" you mean something like "What's 7x5?" (ugh, I hate those). What I meant to ask is how would this affect (their) play, even if the player assumes there's only one correct answer? (I'm not saying this kind of confusion isn't problematic, of course.)

> I think I can understand why you don't want to display any numbers. The game is just as much a memory game as it is a math game, and showing the numbers almost undermines the memory challenge. However, there is nothing stopping players from writing the numbers on paper or typing the numbers in Notepad, and I'm sure some players will do that even if you disable visuals.

The simple answer is that it takes less time to type two numbers than four (or six, really). Alright, so that's a pretty awful joke but its very much true (and relevant).

It may sound ludicrous right now but the time to answer improves pretty fast (and by a significant amounts) with experience. I have no idea how not having visuals affects the learning curve though. In fact, this answering scheme was designed so that typing speed is a less significant factor.

I think maybe about 100 games (1000 rounds) will be enough to get to such speeds. But I think even with much less, it will be better to press + than to write down the numbers (to avoid moving your hand and mind away during the first announcement). I'm not sure.

Of course, there's much worse players can do externally and I hope they won't. I will make it clear that this is considered cheating if multiplayer mode really takes off. There's something I can do to deter it though (but it would cost resources).

>>44170

Basically what Mint Vanilla said here >>44172.

Do you mean to replace the example with this exact sentence?

> you got 4 from 8-4 then 6 from 6/1 those 2 numbers 4 and 6 multiply together to get 24

I thought this is what's already being said (more or less). Except the part where I try to make people forget about expressions and arithmetic as much as possible and only use the word "merge". Doing this also helps with winning this game, I find.

Or maybe I didn't understand what you meant.

> Anyway I had fun with it.

I'm very glad. And congratulations on being number 4 (unless there's some freaky coincidence).

Thanks for all these comments. I hope y'all stick around until at least the entire project is released. The next two levels should be available in about 24 hours.
>> No. 44193
The third and fourth level were made available (but then Ponychan went down). The link remains the same. Tell me if the game didn't save or something.

I'm still try to aggregate all comments and decide what to do exactly. (Although it would take time for changes to take effect even after that.)

I'm likely to add the ability to skip any level by winning 5 times on any other level or something.
>> No. 44198
>>44179

>There is an example (see StarStep's reply >>44170).

To be honest, I didn't realize that was supposed to be an example. All I heard was Roseluck repeating the first two numbers and Twilight saying that's right. I was totally confused, and the two-second explanation didn't help; it was way too fast, and I had no time to think because the game started immediately after. And when I played the second time, I discovered that Star skipped the intro, so I just skipped it every time.

>I think the main problem with adding visuals though (other than that I'd like the game to be complete with none at all) is that the more there is, the more is expected. If there are visuals in a tutorials, I think the player will ask why there isn't any in-game.
>I didn't make this apparent in my last post (I think I actually suggested otherwise) but the entire game (not only the part when playing rounds) is meant to be completely audio only. That was (part) of the point of making this game.

Fair enough. Alright, I concede.

>I don't know how to make interactivity really help here though. If the answer is given to the player then they can just type it (and if they are still confused about the rules of the game then not giving them the answer will mean they are stuck, even on an easy example). I had a similar idea (with this not giving the answer version) but then noticed there isn't much difference between that and the first level.

I see your point. Perhaps interactivity wouldn't help much. Still, there's gotta be some way to revamp the instructions and the example.

>I'm assuming by "solving arithmetical expressions" you mean something like "What's 7x5?" (ugh, I hate those). What I meant to ask is how would this affect (their) play, even if the player assumes there's only one correct answer? (I'm not saying this kind of confusion isn't problematic, of course.)

In my opinion, knowing that I have to find just one out of many possible paths to 24 makes me a bit more relaxed. If I believe there's only one correct path, then it'll be a little more tense and I can be more prone to second-guessing myself, spending more time double-checking my calculations than I need to.
>> No. 44221
I've been fiddling with instructions.

http://arcane-journey-7555.herokuapp.com/static/extendedinstructions.mp3 (not the quality of in-game audio though)

I already cut a lot out but its still 2 mins long. This should clarify on all questions I've got up to now. But it might still be too fast for some of them.

The hard part with testing this though is finding people who don't know the game or are confused by it to tell me of their experience.

> To be honest, I didn't realize that was supposed to be an example. All I heard was Roseluck repeating the first two numbers and Twilight saying that's right. I was totally confused, and the two-second explanation didn't help; it was way too fast, and I had no time to think because the game started immediately after. And when I played the second time, I discovered that Star skipped the intro, so I just skipped it every time.

Oh, I understand now. That makes sense. I guess I don't have much choice except to give explicit examples.

> In my opinion, knowing that I have to find just one out of many possible paths to 24 makes me a bit more relaxed. If I believe there's only one correct path, then it'll be a little more tense and I can be more prone to second-guessing myself, spending more time double-checking my calculations than I need to.

Thanks for elaborating. This is precisely what I wanted to know. (That you would try to second-guessing yourself and I think there's also the possibly that you find two solutions and think one of them must be wrong because of this.)
>> No. 44223
>>44221
>> To be honest, I didn't realize that was supposed to be an example. All I heard was Roseluck repeating the first two numbers and Twilight saying that's right. I was totally confused, and the two-second explanation didn't help; it was way too fast, and I had no time to think because the game started immediately after. And when I played the second time, I discovered that Star skipped the intro, so I just skipped it every time.

>Oh, I understand now. That makes sense. I guess I don't have much choice except to give explicit examples.

That's the same point I was trying to make earlier, that that was too fast and not very informative as an example. Right now she only says you get 4 by subtracting 4 from 8. Have her continue on with the 6 from dividing 6 and 1 and you know that works because 4 and 6 combine to make 24. That would make it a great example that I would have gotten right away.

That new set of instructions is way too long and you dont need to spell everything out quite that much. I think most of it can be taken care of with one good example during the instructions that will show you can solve it multiple ways and can combine an already merged number again. (I was so confused during the applebloom contest because I was like 'how is she getting those numbers and how do those even work since the 2 numbers she said dont in any way make 24' I was only used to combining the numbers given and not recombining) An example like 2,3,4,6 One answer would be 3 and 8 using 6 and 3 to get 3 then 4 and 2 to get 8 then those combine to get the needed 24. Another way to go about it is the answer 3 and 12. 3 is from 6 and 3 then 12 is from that new 3 and the 4. You know that works because the 12 can combine with the remaining number 2 to make 24.

Something like that I feel would clear up most of the confusion.

How about on first loading you could have twilight say 'welcome to the audio game: ccc' so you dont need to add that part about it being an audio only game to the instructions and since it would be the first thing people hear that would make it known from the get go.

Next it takes too long from when twilight says "welcome to the main menu" for her to list the numbers and their choices. Right now you just sit there for a second or two going 'what now' before she says them.

Anyway Im having fun with it and am wondering what is going to happen in this little story you have going. Plus I really like the humor throughout it.
>> No. 44226
It took over an hour, but I finally beat level 3. I kept losing horribly. X_X

I normally have Flash auto-block all LSOs. But if I do that to this game, the game won't even start. Well, technically it does start (numpad keys make sound effects), but it never reaches the main menu. It's not a big deal, but I figured I'd bring it up.

>>44221

I have a hard time understanding the new instructions (due to audio quality), so I can't say much about it.

I've also been thinking of my own instructions for the game. I think it's around 90-100 seconds long. I'm not sure whether mine is less confusing or more confusing. Audio-only is quite the challenge.

>>44223

>(I was so confused during the applebloom contest because I was like 'how is she getting those numbers and how do those even work since the 2 numbers she said dont in any way make 24' I was only used to combining the numbers given and not recombining)

I know what you mean. I was confused by this back in level 1. The game is surprisingly flexible about what answers the player can give.

>An example like 2,3,4,6 One answer would be 3 and 8 using 6 and 3 to get 3 then 4 and 2 to get 8 then those combine to get the needed 24. Another way to go about it is the answer 3 and 12. 3 is from 6 and 3 then 12 is from that new 3 and the 4. You know that works because the 12 can combine with the remaining number 2 to make 24.

The example should use arithmetic; otherwise, new players will have no idea what's going on.

>How about on first loading you could have twilight say 'welcome to the audio game: ccc' so you dont need to add that part about it being an audio only game to the instructions and since it would be the first thing people hear that would make it known from the get go.

I like this idea.

>Next it takes too long from when twilight says "welcome to the main menu" for her to list the numbers and their choices. Right now you just sit there for a second or two going 'what now' before she says them.

I think the intent is, after players hear the list a few times, they already know what the choices are, so they don't have to listen to Twilight start to re-explain every time. I think it's a good compromise between "What do I do?" and "Argh, be quiet, I know already!" Currently, there's about five seconds of silence. Personally, I'm fine with it, but I guess it could be a little shorter.
>> No. 44236
>>Oh, I understand now. That makes sense. I guess I don't have much choice except to give explicit examples.

>That's the same point I was trying to make earlier, that that was too fast and not very informative as an example. Right now she only says you get 4 by subtracting 4 from 8.

Oh no. Oh no! I should have done this the first time. I went back to listen to the version I posted again. That clip is missing the last few seconds! My local copy was fine which is really weird. It should be fixed now.

But from timestamp of your comment >>44170, it looks like the wrong version must have been up for at least a week now. And that's why I didn't understand your first comment initially (I only checked my local copy when you posted that originally). I must have confused a whole lot of people with this. What a terrible mistake (and awful way to introduce the game).

Actually, from the logs it looks even worse. I think its been like this ever since I started showing this game to people!

I think I need to go double check and triple check all the other clips now (and maybe monitor everything). Ah, good old paranoia.

I'll responds to other comments later. They aren't forgotten. (And as you can see, they are very helpful.)
>> No. 44243
> That new set of instructions is way too long and you dont need to spell everything out quite that much.

I'm rather glad to not the only one who thinks this.

> I think most of it can be taken care of with one good example during the instructions that will show you can solve it multiple ways and can combine an already merged number again.

I was thinking of (also) giving the answer 2 3 with the same example (that is hopefully now fixed). And possibly also 3 3. But this part was cut from the extended instructions.

>> How about on first loading you could have twilight say 'welcome to the audio game: ccc' so you dont need to add that part about it being an audio only game to the instructions and since it would be the first thing people hear that would make it known from the get go.
> I like this idea.

If the logs are right, I think that right now there are a lot of people who don't finish loading the (initial 4.5 mb) game (although there could be various reasons for this). I was hoping that having something separate, short (which it isn't now) and up front (and also clearly marked as an audio file) would help with this problem at the same time as clearing up other things.

What you suggest would still solve one of the problems though.

As a side note, the game actually never refers to its own name (only the name of the game within the game). It doesn't even refer to itself as a game. I'll admit that this is a very silly objective (so I don't have to keep it this way but then again, changing some things seems to have an effect on the overall perspective of the game and I have trouble predicting these effects). The other potential issue is that the first sentence is the one most likely to be missed and it doesn't repeat for quite some time.

>>Next it takes too long from when twilight says "welcome to the main menu" for her to list the numbers and their choices. Right now you just sit there for a second or two going 'what now' before she says them.
> I think the intent is, after players hear the list a few times, they already know what the choices are, so they don't have to listen to Twilight start to re-explain every time. I think it's a good compromise between "What do I do?" and "Argh, be quiet, I know already!" Currently, there's about five seconds of silence. Personally, I'm fine with it, but I guess it could be a little shorter.

This is part of the reason. In early stages, I even considered having her not list the options at all and just repeat the opening two sentences. Although this was quickly abandoned.

The intended use of the menu is to literally do what Twilight suggests: press a number (and then enter). Its possible to list the options this way. Just press each number in turn. This also allows you to repeat an option you missed (before the end of the list) or list menu items in any order.

But, of course, in the time it takes to explain this navigation system, I can just list the options instead and be done. I ended up leaving that pause with the hope that repeat players may discover this (or at least try to made people understand that they can press things even while audio is still playing). You can even interrupt the welcome message. I didn't make it shorter because it has to be very clear that there is silence there.

I was originally going to explain this in the extended instructions but cut it for time. It feels like I've cut all the wrong things.

> Anyway Im having fun with it and am wondering what is going to happen in this little story you have going. Plus I really like the humor throughout it.

I'm very happy to hear this. Thanks.

> It took over an hour, but I finally beat level 3. I kept losing horribly. X_X

Congratulations! To both of you actually.

> I normally have Flash auto-block all LSOs. But if I do that to this game, the game won't even start. Well, technically it does start (numpad keys make sound effects), but it never reaches the main menu. It's not a big deal, but I figured I'd bring it up.

Thanks for mentioning this. That's very strange. It shouldn't even try to write until at least a level is completed.

I've only tested it with storage set to 0kb for the moment (but the (unchanged) game loaded and played fine for me, at least locally). I've added some error catching here and there and will put it up when the next two levels are up. I'll look into recreating this bug later.

> I've also been thinking of my own instructions for the game. I think it's around 90-100 seconds long. I'm not sure whether mine is less confusing or more confusing. Audio-only is quite the challenge.

Do show (or tell in audio form!).
>> No. 44247
Levels 5 and 6 are now available (the link is still the same as in the first post).

> As a side note, the game actually never refers to its own name (only the name of the game within the game). It doesn't even refer to itself as a game.

Oops. This isn't actually true. Its mentioned in the credits.
>> No. 44259
>>44243

>If the logs are right, I think that right now there are a lot of people who don't finish loading the (initial 4.5 mb) game (although there could be various reasons for this). I was hoping that having something separate, short (which it isn't now) and up front (and also clearly marked as an audio file) would help with this problem at the same time as clearing up other things.

I believe the reason for this is brought up in the very first reply: there is no preloader. People click on the link to your game and expect something to happen, but instead are greeted with a blank screen for however long it takes them to download several megabytes. They don't know if it's loading or broken or whatever; they might not even understand that it's a purely audio game. And instead of waiting around or trying to find out, they simply move on.

Usually, there would be a simple animation or something to let the player know that something is happening, maybe even with a progress bar. But since you don't have any graphics... I dunno. Even if you had an explanation and some nice elevator music, high-quality audio itself needs time to download.
>> No. 44280
>>44259
I've never managed to make a preloader. (Feel free to point and laugh now.) This loader is the closest thing. The loader is just not small enough. I could also trade-off loader size for number of HTTP requests.

Anyway, I looked into it again and there's more information this time around. And it actually worked! After a few hours of course. Or maybe its getting everything in one file that I can't do. I still can't. (Cue another laugh track here.) But that isn't a concern this time.

http://cantorlot.github.com/cccc/client/preloader.swf

Its currently made so I can easily tell that if its working (even if it loads too fast). The actually used version may be different. I don't think I want to put music though because of file size.
>> No. 44287
>>44280

Hey, that's not bad. Might I suggest making it a little clearer what the numbers mean? Perhaps say "Now loading" or something at the very beginning, or replace "ten" with "ten percent" (the rest can stay as twenty, thirty, etc.).

What do you mean by "getting everything into one file"?

Don't worry about preloader music; I was just joking. Most preloaders don't have music, I think.

The game now plays properly with LSOs blocked. Thanks!

Just got to level 5. Fractions? Seriously? I have enough trouble juggling all the whole numbers. D=

Is there a way to return to the main menu without having to refresh the swf?
>> No. 44304
> Hey, that's not bad. Might I suggest making it a little clearer what the numbers mean? Perhaps say "Now loading" or something at the very beginning, or replace "ten" with "ten percent" (the rest can stay as twenty, thirty, etc.).

Heh. I did intend to add "Percent loaded. Please wait.". It would be there at the same time as other voices (probably after the full game is available). I'm trying to think if I'd want to change this though. Maybe have it say "Finished loading audio game." instead of 100%.

Although it looks like the number of people who finish the first level is always the same no matter what I do. There's always one or two people who beat the first level. Whether there are 10 people who see it or 100 the result is always the same. So maybe I shouldn't overthink the design.

> What do you mean by "getting everything into one file"?

Right now preloader.swf loads client.swf but its possible (at least from what I've read, this is even very common) to have a single large file and still have a preloader that runs before the entire file is loaded.

> Don't worry about preloader music; I was just joking. Most preloaders don't have music, I think.
Haha. Its almost tempting to try. I could fit 4 notes in about 22 kb. Of course, the loading time is too short most of the time and that's still a quarter of the size of the current preloader.

> The game now plays properly with LSOs blocked. Thanks!
Excellent!

> Is there a way to return to the main menu without having to refresh the swf?
No, there isn't. Star was the most obvious choice but its already used. And I think there might already be too many commands. (Triple star or "r" maybe?) Right now the only way without a reload is to lose quickly.
>> No. 44335
Level 5 doesn't seem to have a solution...?

>>44304

>Maybe have it say "Finished loading audio game." instead of 100%.

You could do that if, say, you pause it there and want the player to press the Enter key (or even the infamous Any key) before running client.swf. This can be useful if you want the player to pay attention as the game starts (I think you mentioned before that the player might miss the first sentence).

Otherwise, confirming that the game is finished loading seems rather pointless when the game could simply begin. Even the current "one hundred" (which I don't think was there before?) doesn't really do anything since the game starts immediately after.

>Right now preloader.swf loads client.swf but its possible (at least from what I've read, this is even very common) to have a single large file and still have a preloader that runs before the entire file is loaded.

Haha, you should see Minty Fresh Adventure. That game uses 34 swf files. Unfortunately, I know nothing about Flash, so I have no idea whether one swf is better than multiple. (But seriously, go play MFA if you haven't; it's great.)
>> No. 44354
>Level 5 doesn't seem to have a solution...?
I just checked the web version and it is definitely giving the right question and accepting a correct answer. (So I'm ruling those problems out for now.)

I'm very glad I put the hint there then (the chapter could be put at an level so you couldn't tell when its needed). But I was quite sure this one is difficult. I can't think of (another) decent hint for it for the moment.

> You could do that if, say, you pause it there and want the player to press the Enter key (or even the infamous Any key) before running client.swf. This can be useful if you want the player to pay attention as the game starts (I think you mentioned before that the player might miss the first sentence).

I don't think I want to force a pause or keypress there (it seems like the equivalent of adding loading time for anyone who already heard it).

I think the people who miss it are most likely to reload the game (and hear it again). Although this kind of thinking has backfired more than once by now.

> Otherwise, confirming that the game is finished loading seems rather pointless when the game could simply begin. Even the current "one hundred" (which I don't think was there before?) doesn't really do anything since the game starts immediately after.

Well, the idea is to confirm that the player is now out of the "loading screen". I don't know. I think that you got used to the rest of the game you its obvious to you when it starts. That's the biggest problem with me. I've seen this game fully evolve so I can't tell what kind of first impression it can give.

I seems like even knowing where they are (or that there are places to be) can be a problem.

> Haha, you should see Minty Fresh Adventure. That game uses 34 swf files. Unfortunately, I know nothing about Flash, so I have no idea whether one swf is better than multiple. (But seriously, go play MFA if you haven't; it's great.)

I've actually been following that project (and been around those threads) since the first installment. But unfortunately, it did have some loading problems (whether it is because of the number of files or not, I don't know). It is indeed very good series.

Having everything in a single file may be useful for submitting games to some places. I don't know if that's still true.
>> No. 44384
The entire game is available now (still the same link as in the first post).

The interface update will come later.
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