>>92275
What I wrote there might sound like rambling. tl;dr sound concept, but not helpful to know IMO

>>92276
Oh, I don't know.

It seems like the kind of thing that you kinda already know, but ... maybe it helps to give it a name.

Or maybe it's detrimental.
If you think about it, it really is the sort of subtle artistry that you can't just analyze and reproduce, and trying to may actually decrease your capacity to accomplish it.

>>92271
Sorry, this reads a little too much like something that I would find in a course on written communication more than a writing tip.

Often times in writing, there is no planned "third layer" as you describe. One may simply want to relate the story as it is in their mind, and thus only the first two layers consciously come into play. Often that third layer is really a deeper meaning that comes about as a natural consequence of the story as opposed to an aim the author must have from the get-go.

The Unwritten Word can be developed by reading too much into a simple statement. My thought example below:

>Pinkie Pie has always been fascinated with flying and seems to have a natural affinity for bouncing into the air. Twilight Sparkle looks back into Pinkie's genealogy by request because both are curious if she has any pegasus blood in her family. When they fail to find many records, Pinkie decides to ask her mother if she ever looked at her family's past herself.
>It turns out that Pinkie is half-pegasus. Her mother had had a one-night stand with a pegasus stallion shortly before meeting Pinkie's father. Pinkie thanks her mother for telling her the truth and returns to Ponyville, her curiosity satisfied, though a new question has popped up in its stead, who is her real father, and where is he in Equestria?

Now, does that story I came up with the bare bones for just now have to have more than even the first layer of meaning? I've pretty much just told in this passage, but you can make a couple inferences, especially if I actually expanded it into scenes with dialog and stuff. Is there necessarily that third layer in it? I didn't intend it if it's there. Could it still be an interesting, and gripping piece of fiction? I think so.
…

Read more >>

Last week I cranked out a chapter of my fic a week (I was on a break) I definitely burnt myself out by Saturday though. I think having other things to distract me from writing actually helps me write better

>>92241
oops meant I cranked our a chapter per day

>>92229
The way I see it: you can almost imagine it as a 'sailing between Scylla and Charybdis' scenario.

If you put in too little detail, then people don't understand why they should care about these blah characters that have nothing that interesting about them besides "horrible secrets to be revealed later"... not to mention that everything becomes super-confusing (What? Someone's stealing a MacGuffin? Why? Oh, wait, there's TWO MacGuffins? Why? Twilight has a jetpack? Where did she get a jetpack?)

On the other hand, burying the reader with detail robs things of supsense as well as leads to boredom if just hammered on there. (Yes, I'm aware that Rainbow moves around clouds. No, I don't care that those particular clouds were Cirrus cloud. For Pete's sake, it's a shipfic and Rainbow needs to fly back down to go to the party. Stop describing the freaking clouds. There's no point.)

Obviously, both are bad. I think that the overall tendency has been to err on the side of having more detail. In nautical terms, you steer closer to the less dangerous monster.

Personally, way too much detail makes me frustrated and bored, in the sense of I feel less likely to read on. Way too little detail makes me feel actually angry, and immediately run for the [x] at the top right of the screen. I'd rather wade through silly details about clouds than hit the plot wall of seeing Twilight with a jetpack and just being told 'dealwithit.jpg'

Oh well I might finish my favourites...

-My little Dashie(Hnnnnnnnngggg)
-Tomorrow(sad)
-Bubbles(SO SAD)
-Regrowth(beautiful/cloppy)
-out in the cold
-Bittersweet
-dinky doo's father revealed
-our last goodbye(Beautiful/cloppy)
- Sch'ma' utz (grimdark)
-Black and white( shipping)…

Read more >>

Well lets see what I can remembrance.
Luna vs microwave. Andwhat I've read of that whole series is absolutely adorable and great.
Mort takes a vacation- if it ever gets finished.
This one red vs blue crossover, definitely surprising how they got it to work.
Past wind-up not that its such an amazing story but its very well written which makes an elephantine difference.
and until the last 2 or three chapters, througt the eyes of another pony would still be considered good.

Oh and "Spark"

>Do you simply find stories that start in the middle of the relationship unacceptable, or is it more like, "It's in the middle of the relationship but no justification is given for there being a relationship at all"?

Depends on who's being shipped with whom. For two characters whom we're familiar with (say, if you're shipping Dash and Pinkie) then starting in the middle of the relationship is unacceptable for most folks. Those two are obviously not in a romantic relationship in the show, and many readers will balk at any attempt to gloss over how they went from gal-pals to lovers.

For ships with only one major character involved (FluttershyxCaramel, for example), this requirement is relaxed. Since we've never really seen them interacting on the show, it's possible to say that they've been in love for a while now and it's all just been off-screen. But if you go that route, then you have to explain THAT: explain why they never seem to hang out in public, why none of the ponies ever comment about the relationship, etc.

If you're shipping two minor characters/background characters/OCs, then you can pretty much do whatever you want, as far as ship setup is concerned. If you tell us that two ponies who are essentially tabula rasas are in a relationship, who are we to argue? Some folks will balk if your ship breaks theirs (like if you ship Octavia with someone other than Scratch), but there's no cause to complain about the story taking it as a given that your characters are already in love.

Bah! Too much thinking, not enough feeling.

Nietzs has it figured out:
>>91414
>But it's really not enough not to give the intellect or conscience any pause. A romance writer's first task is, literally, to lull the intellect and conscience to sleep. This is necessary because, as I've asserted, the romantic feeling is quite "low," so to speak, in the hierarchy of human nature, and has much more to do with evolutionarily-acquired instincts than with abstract intellectual and moral ideals.

Where shipping stories shine or fail is in exploring what choices the characters make with those instincts - and that's where characterization really matters. If you read a story and wonder whether or not the ship makes sense, the story has already failed. The fix will lie in better hypnosis of the reader, not in shoring up the "argument."

Good romance is the exact opposite of Ship-to-Ship Combat.

People have really weird ideas about sex, so let's take that out of the equation and talk about a different kind of appetite for a moment.
…

Read more >>

>>91576
>>91583
>>91594
This is exactly why I started this thread. Thank you all for your responses. I think I'm beginning to understand shipping a bit better now.

Read the sticky.
>I'm an inspiring
Inspire rage, perhaps. Perhaps you mean aspiring?
Random use of the Enter key.
Doesn't end his split-sentence with a period.
I do not have the patience for threads like this today...

The Training Grounds. It's like speed dating for writers and editors. Write something short and join the mixer.

In general, /fic/ is a readers market. If you just show up wanting a regular editor, it's kinda like showing up at a bar as a guy and announcing you need to find the perfect wife right now.

See the straight shipping thread (>>76932). I guess it's telling that that's sitting on page 17 and only has 25 posts.

Dunno which suggestion there are good, but I've heard a lot of nice things about It's Always Sunny in Fillydelphia.

>Eh. Semantics trolling, not as fun as I thought it might be. Posts deleted.


Anyhoo, now that I'm awake again, the subject of straight shipping. I think it's a symptom of how really, this show is inherently biased against adult males. I mean, seriously, in the first season (and I'm excluding season two for a reason other than personal bias, as explained later), how many times did the plot require a male character that was at or above the age of the main six?

From Season 1, my count would be:

Applebuck Season: Big McIntosh's bet
*Dragonshy: The dragon was a bad guy
Suited for Success: The famous fashion designer
Sonic Rainboom: The bullies were a bad guy.
*Dog and Pony Show: The diamond dogs were slavers (hint: bad guys)…

Read more >>

>>91399
Despite the pic, that was very interesting to read. Its nice to be able to put words into that "Eww, gay" feeling you sometimes get with shipfics.

Should be interesting to see how the show handles its first official ship/marriage in the finale (Big Mac's and Cherilee's relationship in Hearts and Hooves Day isn't quite set in stone IMHO for various reasons).

The best fic ever written in any fandom, let alone this one,is the Spiderses.

>>91338

I enjoyed Bill Neigh more, personally.

Best?
(opinion, of course, and biased towards stuff I've read recently)
End of Ponies -- best epic
Off the Edge of the Map -- best platonic ship
"The Proper Care and Feeding of Monsters" -- best hnnng
"Any Port in a Storm" -- best first person
Blood is Thicker than Friendship -- best guilty pleasure

And, silly stuff
"Naked Singularity" -- best clopspoof
"The Art of Friendship" -- best clopspoof (clatterfic)
"Doom of the Snow Weasels" -- worst pun…

Read more >>

>>91065
As would I. I've got a nice little filly Twi but she's so small she can't be hugged properly...

>>91052

I'll just leave this here.

>>91072
There's also the issue of where I would hide something like that if people visited :P.

Read the sticky. We already have a general for story ideas with the Story Forge thread. Delete this and go there.

Interesting idea, but no, there hasn't been anything exactly like this. Theres been a few meta-stories that poke fun at common mistakes, but nothing like this in the fandom. Could you link to some of the better-known OFU stories? I'd like see what they look like.

Tired of that old busted apple <a href="http://jmpyrwrv.com">ipohne</a> relaxing being dead? The pure water that got inside this is a problem. If you need an iPhone that has certainly been actually opened in order to liquefied or pure water and also happens to be not behaving the right way then look into this service. We additionally offer iPhone circuit board as well as main-board replacements. There are many folks out there that expertise this problem every day and our provider is the deliverer for all of these pure water harm as well as circuit board harm issues.

Holy Toeold, so glad I clicked on this site first! http://nyjihlcm.com spopbqkb [spopbqkb.com] [link=http://bhyeyzkq.com]bhyeyzkq[/link]

<a href="http://www.arctic2012.net/">here</a>

>>90498

Exactly.

Really, this thread didn't need to be about shipping stories. It applies to all MLP stories... or all stories for all fandoms.

Character tags shouldn't be "who appears in this story?", it should be "who is this story about?".

>>90633
That is true, there is a problem with people listing characters that only a bit part or barely even a scene.

However, what if someone writes an epic adventure story that heavily involves the entire mane six, and they all undergo character development and contribute greatly to the story, but there is also a FlutterDash shipping subplot?

The story is about all of the Mane six so they can't only list Fluttershy and Rainbow Dash.

That's why I like my earlier solution (>>90476) as it lets shipping be labeled separately.

Doesn't fix everything, but at the very least it helps with that.

>>90635
Well, if it was on EqD, you'd have shipping listed in the author tags instead, since it's not actually the focus of the story.
What could potentially work is two sets of tags. One for the main drive for the story, and the second for minor parts.

>>90577
Thank you, I lol'd.

This terribad thread's existence and its having been moved to \fic\ amuses me. I'm supposing the mods are trying to see if we have a sense of humor; otherwise they're trolling us again.

>>90581
> I'm supposing the mods are trying to see if we have a sense of humor; otherwise they're trolling us again.

Why would they have to pick one or the other?

>>90717
If they thought they were fully aware of how we'd respond, that response would be fully negative, and they did it specifically to elicit that response, it's trolling.

If they weren't confident in their prediction of how we'd respond, and did it jokingly (and to find out if we'd be able to see through to that motive), they did it to give us a laugh.

It's all conjecture anyways.

I guess, if I was writing this, I might have something like:

{ I leaned up against the lamppost, which protected a little bit against the rain but not a lot. I glared at those ugly bright yellow lights above the boutique, a pony could go mad looking for too long, and I just went back to closing my eyes. I couldn't help thinking about all the ponies out there on the streets that didn't have a lamppost to go to, much less a home. I suppose rain meant a free shower to some of them.

I thought to myself how it wasn't like Autumn Breeze to be this late. It didn't matter, of course. I just keeping to a timetable just kept me sane. A million little pleasures, like finding yourself a less than five minutes short on a pickup, add up after a while. I guess that's all what happiness is, when you come down to it. One cookie, one kiss, one trip, and so on adds up to a while; all of them as futile as little chalk marks on the sidewalk.

Anyways, I gazed off into the distance, rain dripping off my hat all along my nose. I made out that familiar little blue pegasus, walking through the black clouds of rainy nothingness. Poor thing would barely fly to save her life, let alone get out of the rain. I smirked, although I knew shouldn't have. After all, she was showing up on time. I might have time to catch the guys at their little shindig after all.

The color drained off my face as Autumn took clearer shape, popping out of the cloudy mist. Oh, sure, her mane, tail, dress, and everything else looked fine, except for being soaking wet of course. Yet I could see it in her face, especially in her eyes, as clear as a a barrel of water. Black and blue on the blue coat. Makeup could hide that, but the rain made that out of the question.

"He beat her again," I said to myself, speaking so softly that even I could barely hear it. My heart went from zero to racing speed. "Again..." She walked up and stood a few feet besides the rickshaw, as oblivious to me as if I was another lamppost.
…

Read more >>

>>90449
While there are moments where the origin of Tabby's despair are elucidated or hinted at (such at the scene in the movie theater or her flashback regarding her ex-"very special somepony") I think you are right to point out that the story would benefit from having more such moments while she is on the job, like the one that you wrote.

As for the training grounds, I'll look into it. Are you referring to a thread on this site? I don't use /fic/ (or ponychan in general) that often, so pardon my ignorance.

>>90465
I'm referring to: http://www.ponychan.net/chan/fic/res/90477.html

And, yeah, more moments like that scene should be there in the very beginning. I might more or less open with that seen.

P.S. Feel free to copy all or whatever I just wrote, of course, it's just an example.

I say you need to look around a bit more. Right before you posted your thread, the first thread at the top of /fic/ told you where you should go for help on fics and the second thread from the top was somewhere that you can go for help. A good writer is a better reader. In the directory under the sticky at >>43232, you can find a list of all the review threads. There're like five review threads on the front page, too. Can't go three threads without tripping over one.

When the sticky says "PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING", it means "PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING." There's a reason it's there in big red letters, and that reason is to try to reduce the number of "help my fic" threads to as few as possible. That's what review threads are for: helping your fic.

That said, let's look at your story.

>Ponies need to die, just like people. Or the effects can be poisonous. All our princesses can do is think back now. And they need an idea.
This is your synopsis. You have two fragments here:
>Or the effects can be poisonous.
>And they need an idea.
Sure, you could say you're using them for dramatic effect, but that doesn't work without building up to them. I guess
>And they need an idea.…

Read more >>

Corrections and additions to >>90398.
>Anyhoof, this sentence suffers the same problem as the last. It's horridly out of place.
This sentence isn't out of place. It's just random and it tells instead of shows. The sentence before this one just doesn't belong in narrative.

>They've seen their rises to fame, their retirement or fall from grace, and their deaths.
>Much like Twilight Sparkle, the princesses have adopted many apprentices over the long years, each one growing up to be famous, or successful, or both.
>They've seen their rises to fame, their retirement or fall from grace, and their deaths.
These also suffer from telling instead of showing.

No rush. ^_^ I'm just glad yer takin an interest.

>>90054
I'll look at it sometime today, I promise...

Well, I... I went through most of page one of chapter one. I have to be honest and say that I found reading kind of frustrating. Broadly speaking, it's pretty heavily on the "tell" side of the "show versus tell" division. That's not good. Story-wise, I don't see that much 'there' there. Applebloom should be in deep despair, but that isn't coming across in the prose.

There's also a lot of wording choices that sound awkward. Case in point: Applebloom spent a few minutes petting the puppy, for want of something more productive to do. Read this out loud. Doesn't it sound oddly dry and detached?

I could keep going with this chapter, but I feel like you should look back and heavily revise it based on the things that I pointed out on the first page. If you want me too, I'll keep going. But... yeah.