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File 134633173080.jpg - (9.61KB , 298x169 , images.jpg )
118049 No. 118049
#Discussion
So, as you may have read in the last thread I made I've had the idea to make a blog dedicated to fanfiction and that alone. Sort of like Equestria Daily with only fanfics, a showcase of some awesome fics and other stuff. Now, I've got quite a few ideas, but I'm asking you lot whether you've got any more I could implement in.

Feel free to also have a discussion on whether this is a good idea or not.

Here are all my ideas so far:
-Fanfics get a bump for every chapter they release. But you have to wait a minimum of five days before you can get another chapter posted
-A weekly/fortnightly author spotlight, where an author is interviewed or just profiled. The author must be good, or have some interesting stories of course. Readers can suggest some.
-A revamped rules system dedicated to making a site where no massive amount of fics are left out. I won't be letting in clop, and that is the only thing.
-If Gumii is ever made I shall be asking the developer for some sort of implementation of some sorts.
Unspoiler all text  • Expand all images  • Reveal spoilers
>> No. 118052
Sorry to break your dreams,zombie, but as you have read before, many other people had that idea, few tried it and everyone gave up on it.

What makes you so special?
>> No. 118053
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118053
>>118052
If I said anything you would just refute it. Gif related.
>> No. 118054
>>118053
I like your spirit. you can go to my house and fuck my brother. My sister's already married.
>> No. 118056
File 134633240467.jpg - (184.07KB , 533x594 , LOL_WUT_PEAR.jpg )
118056
>>118054
>> No. 118061
>>118057
I suggest erasing that...

>>118049
I actually liked the sound of this: >>92985 so that.

That said, as for your ideas:

1.) Seem reasonable and feasible with your own blog.

2.) Sounds like The Ponyfic Vault with a bit of One Man's Pony Ramblings.

3.) So... anything but clop? Not that I need it all together, but that's essentially what you are saying, right?

4.) No. You can't do this. Gummii could integrate your content, but you can't integrate Gummii. It can't be done. Just trust on that if you don't know. Gummii is off in the far future and its mission (original one) is very different, but when it does come online and you want to collaborate, you will probably become part of Gummii rather than vice-versa.
>> No. 118062
File 134633352163.png - (168.62KB , 1053x882 , 132858482959.png )
118062
>>118061
> I suggest erasing that
>> No. 118063
>>118062
Content rules here are kind of strict.

Normally, /fic/ doesn't give a damn, but it's better to be safe because mods periodically visit now (and actually answer reports, hallelujah for that).
>> No. 118064
Okay, brainstorm time! Things I would like to see:

– Essays on writing and general writing tips
– Fruitful interviews (PFV uses the same set of questions each time—very boring)
– Reviews of stories

And, I'm sorry to say this, but...
– Letting in mature content

You can have a higher quality-cap on that material (i.e., only let in the really well-done ones), but I think allowing it is necessary, as it is still a valid form of artist expression. There are a good number of fics that the pre-readers would like to post but can't because of the content rules, fics which deserve a spotlight.

Yes, most mature content is anything but. That's just Sturgeon's Law. You have to filter out the good from the bad just like in any other area.

Also, having standards is a given.
>> No. 118065
>>118061
Yeah, anything but clop. I shall be letting gore in though, but only if the story is well written and isn't just revelling in gore. I might add a warning to them though.
>> No. 118066
>>118064
Ok, I'll let clop in. But ONLY if there is an actual good story behind it. So the usual porn story won't work. I will however put a warning on clop and gore stories. And I'll be asking authors for the age rating of their material, kind of like on Fimfiction.
>> No. 118067
>>118066
Ragingsemi's best works.
>> No. 118069
>>118064
Mature content would be allowed, what won't be allowed are erotic (pornographic, or otherwise) if I read correctly.

I can't say I agree with that (there are some pretty good erotica stories out there) but the idea that people who shouldn't have access to that content would just be able to scroll about and find it is a bit worrisome to me.

For the most part, we are mostly adults here, but if this board is any guide there are plenty of underage people coming in and out. Should they access this blog, how would you react if your kids found It's Dangerous Business right next to Rarity's Generous Plan?

It's not even a matter of containment, it's just that sort of content should be separated because of what is inside.

So, I suggest a subblog with that sort of content, but that's dangerously close to just being Equestria After Dark, which already features mature stories...

>>118067
I wish he would write more SFW stuff. Severing was kind of meh.

Also, this again: >>92985
>> No. 118070
File 134633458510.jpg - (7.77KB , 300x168 , hakase_umm.jpg )
118070
>>118057
>mfw

>>118049
>Fanfics get a bump for every chapter they release
>A revamped rules system dedicated to making a site where no massive amount of fics are left out. I won't be letting in clop, and that is the only thing.
>no massive amount left out
>implying massive amount will be included on blog
Seeing as you've opened the floor to discussion...

Clutter is the first word that comes to mind, followed by chaos. Because what you have sounds, bluntly, like old EqD minus the pre-reader filter. The speed at which you shot down >>118052 earns you a frown; it wasn't an outright objection, it's a challenge/opening for you to sell your pitch. And refuting and (constructive) criticism is, well, the essence of /fic/.

A good place for you to start would be quality control - do you have one? If so, how do you intend to implement it? Design? This is /fic/ after all, where comma splices and mid-story A/Ns are roasted over a slow fire of mixed pity and scorn (harshness may be exaggerated). People here bemoan from time to time why fics with a solid plot and planning enough to fill four pages are neglected for the likes of stories that can be summarized as "lol fourth wall"; maybe if you provided a system that met this need, you'd get people interested.

But yeah. Clutter and chaos. An outline proving me wrong would be good.
>> No. 118072
>>118069
Regrowth, Our last goodbye, I wish I might and Bittersweet.
>> No. 118073
>>118070
I will try to hire some pre readers and such. I want this to be a showcase of quality, not a cluttered mess. Then it might as well just be FIMFiction's popular stories box.

Only problem with getting pre readers is that first, who would want to pre read for a blog without many readers? Most people would just want to go to EQD for the fame. I might ask a few pre readers to forward some of the better stories they read from EQD until it gets a decent fanbase, but I'm not sure if that's right or not.
>> No. 118074
>>118066
Don't label it as clop. Label it as mature. There is a stark difference between the two. I cannot stress this point enough.

It would be worth investigating some way to let people hide it. You could do something similar to EqD's "No fanfiction" mode, though it's not a terribly elegant solution. Mark everything safe for work as such and have a "Safe for work" button?

Anyway, make sure the content policy of whatever service you use allows it, too. For example, Blogger:

>Adult Content: We do allow adult content on Blogger, including images or videos that contain nudity or sexual activity. But, please mark your blog as 'adult' in your Blogger settings. Otherwise, we may put it behind a 'mature content' interstitial.

>There are some exceptions to our adult content policy:

>No incest or bestiality content: We do not allow image, video or text content that depicts or encourages incest or bestiality.

That means no human on pony sex. Somehow I don't think anything of value was lost there.
>> No. 118075
>>118074
So how could I do that without making it a mature blog? I don't want a stigma that my place is a place for clopfic and pony sex writers to go to get their story published.
>> No. 118078
>-Fanfics get a bump for every chapter they release. But you have to wait a minimum of five days before you can get another chapter posted
I like.

>-A weekly/fortnightly author spotlight, where an author is interviewed or just profiled. The author must be good, or have some interesting stories of course. Readers can suggest some.
I strongly recomend fortnightly, so that you don't run yourself ragged.

>-A revamped rules system dedicated to making a site where no massive amount of fics are left out. I won't be letting in clop, and that is the only thing.
It's your thang; do whatcha gonna do.
I can't tell ya... who ta sock it to.
>> No. 118079
>>118078
What do you mean by that last part? How would you change the rules?
>> No. 118083
>>118075
“Don't label it as clop. Label it as mature.”

Make sure cover art and front matter (banner, etc) are safe for work. People have to click on a link that's tagged as mature to get to any mature content.

It shouldn't be an issue so long as you're diligent with the quality of content you allow.
>> No. 118084
>>118083
Yeah, I forgot to mention that the SFW covers and such is going to be part of the rules. And I'll get higher standards for mature fics.
>> No. 118087
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118087
>>118079
I was going to suggest allowing clop, but was leery of starting drama.

Of course, I'm a very slow typist--my handle should be something like Grayscale Halt--so the issue was brought up, discussed, accepted, modified, and resolved before I hit "Reply".
>> No. 118088
>>118073
I Could pre-read for it, if it works out. I don't have too many credentials, but you can check my review thread to see if I'm good enough.
>> No. 118089
>>118088
I need to get it sorted out first, and make it look a bit less crappy.
>> No. 118090
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118090
>>118073
>who would want to pre read for a blog without many readers?
Who is your target audience? The people whose needs you satisfy are your stakeholders; they're the ones most likely to help out in order to achieve the goal (so that their needs are satisfied). There are critiquing circles on Fimfic that seem like they'd be happy to do this kinda thing, so poking around there might yield favourable results. As of how good they would be, I wouldn't know, but it's certainly a sector that you can consider. Also, how strict are your standards? I've seen the line "EqD accepts C-level stories" a lot lately from the Ask-a-Prereader thread; are you going to up the ante? Or lower it?

If your blog is not massive, then you have a more manageable flow rate and you won't need as many pre-readers, so it's admittedly not as big a concern as, say, main structure. Part of me wants to say that having an expansion plan is important, but, eh. Getting to that level would be a more immediate priority.

But still, if you want to showcase quality, then you have to reject massive amounts of entries, unless all of them are works of genius. Quality and showcasing is contrast between what's good and what's not, and what's spotlighted and what's not. It still sounds like EqD except exclusively for stories, and EqD has already filled out that niche - although, if the drop in comments on story posts are anything to go by, getting on to EqD doesn't really benefit stories as much anymore in terms of getting showcased... I don't have any viewing stats to back this up though.

Also, quite a few names of old fics in the previous posts. Will you be looking to showcase new, fledgeling-but-good fics, old-and-underrated fics, or both? Personally I'd like it if it were the former, to encourage budding writers to not ditch their epic-spanning adventures just yet for the likes of feature-box-geared fluff. Something died a little inside of me when Jeffrey C. Wells wrote "Twilight Earns the Feature-Box", because even though I wasn't reading Contraptionology!, his previous serious work, I couldn't help but think that he ditched a plot line with actual plot for that... Eh, but it's ultimately the author who writes the story they want to tell, and I'm guilty of doing that myself. End rant.
>> No. 118092
>>118090
My target audience is basically people who read and like fanfiction who also don't like the way EQD does fanfiction. I'll probably be raising the ante a little bit. Maybe let in one fic a day or something.
>> No. 118094
>>118092
Okay, so what is your goal exactly? More specifically, I mean. I'm slightly confused (and that very well could just be me). Originally it looked like your purpose in starting this new blog would be to more or less mirror EqD, as if it was armed with a "Only Fanfiction" button as opposed to vice-versa.

However, now there is talk of having even higher quality control, allowing in mature stories, and even conducting interviews and such. Is this blog trying to be a mirror with concentration on fanfics or something new entirely?
>> No. 118096
>>118094 Basically it features fanfics in the same way that EQD does, but with many more improvements and special features that you wont get on there due to it not being focused on fanfics.
>> No. 118105
>>118096
Am i the only one that had to read this statement several time to make sense of it?
>> No. 118109
I like the idea, but how are you going to select stories? For right or for wrong, the EqD pre-readers get a lot of hate. If you intend to have a similar selection process, well...

Also, publicity. How are you going to advertise this blog and get people... you know, actually reading it? EqD gets tens of thousands of views a day, and what they don't get, FimFiction does. What's going to set you apart?
>> No. 118119
>>118109
They get hate because:

1.)People don't understand EqD isn't made for your very first fanfic, but that's where they get told to go anyway. Cue most new writers feeling that they are being attacked while really they are just in the wrong place (the number of those not returning should be a guide). Basically, newbies go in thinking they have dun gud, but they actually {redacted due to sexy pre-reader on newbie content. Fluids everywhere and stuff.}

2.) The standards aren't standard at all, as story involving Chrysalis and a cat should point to. And I am only saying that because it is the most obvious of them, in general sending stuff to EqD is like having a Russian roulette where instead of one bullets, there are different types of rounds in each that have a change to kill you, but maybe not, and it doesn't really follow for them to be there if other similar level stuff doesn't get in.

3.) Cause they are the spawn of hitler and ophrah, with Justin Bieber as the godfather for all of them.
>> No. 118120
This feels of crash and burn. To get something like this started, you need to know people, and you need to have some reason for people to go to your site.

And what is the difference between what you have planned, and the ponyfiction vault? Except that the ponyfiction vault provides ereader formats, and its interviews get featured on fimfiction. It doesn't seem like you have the connections nor resources to make this idea work.

I mean, are you just going to accept anyone who volunteers to preread to start? Where are you going to get your pre-readers that are on the level of EqD's?
>> No. 118123
>>118120
That is the problem. I know it is. But really, how am I going to get to know people? This is the internet, where anyone can ignore you and block you if they think you're annoying them, it's very hard to get to know people without making something incredibly popular. Which requires that you know people.
>> No. 118125
>>118123
Well, it works like this:

You need someone who is well connected (which basically means someone who is writes a lot of stuff, or has some other sort of fame to him or people willing to listen to his plan) to help you promote this and actually make it sound like someone will get some benefit from it.

If this is "EqD 2: Fanfic Boogaloo", well, good luck?
>> No. 118127
I actually had this idea back when Bronycon was happening and Seth made that all text story update post. In the end, I realized that it would be better if FimFic just improved their standards instead. Try bugging Knightly to make the feature box better. Maybe they could change it so the stories are picked by a team of prereaders instead of by how popular they are. Remember, just because someone "Views" a story, doesn't mean that they read the whole thing.
>> No. 118128
>>118127
Yeah, I'm not doing that. Just, everytime I've tried to change something on a site (even if it is for the better) the owner shoots it down or it fails miserably. I'd rather do it my own way instead. And what is this thing that Seth did that you were talking about?
>> No. 118129
>>118128 That post was by me BTW, the whole site derped for me.
>> No. 118131
>>118123
>>118128

It's not that you need to be known exactly. You need social capital, which can be borrowed. You need EQD and Knighty to acknowledge your presence. You can try to ride the fame of Romance Reports, Past Sins, Fo:E, I refuse to say the next fanfic that logically follows in that chain.

It takes planning. It takes kissing up. It takes communication skills. I'd offer to help but I don't think it's my responsibility, and besides, I don't have very much "social capital" of my own to lend. Cultural capital, perhaps, which can be a way to attain other things.
>> No. 118134
>>118131 I've got a few disadvantages:
1) I'm only 15 years old, and I've seen a LOT of people on the internet literally dismiss any good idea I have or ignore me because of my age. Even though I have the free time to do such things.
2)I'm quite bossy, especially when around people with a higher power than me. I once nearly blew an idea that was just about to be implemented when I was talking with the community head at The Escapist because of this
3)Do you really think that Seth, Knighty or the authors of those fics would listen to an unknown like me? They've got a lot of other stuff to handle.
>> No. 118135
>>118134
No, they won't listen to you. But Knightly acknowledges that the feature box is broken. He'd probably listen if we, as a group, came up with a solution.
>> No. 118136
>>118131
>>118134
So, if I get this straight, you need someone who people will listen to, wants a new place to start setting up shop, and can convince people of coming.

At which point I point to the Vault, which was doing just fine without being featured in Fimfiction, and One Man's Pony Ramblings, which has no feature other than itself at all.

In other words, stop. If you need someone to do the public capital stuff, ask around to find someone who agrees with your idea and can suddenly get everyone from here to MLPchan to do what you want, but only after you have something going on. Right now, you are a big ballon full of ideas without anything to make anyone say "you know, let us take a chance and help this guy."
>> No. 118138
>>118135
But I don't want to simply change something about an existing website. I want to have a new site which specialises in an area that I think that the fandom has dealt with badly/ignored completely.
>> No. 118139
>>118136
Lucky for you, I think I know the exact guy to help me on this little venture.
>> No. 118141
>>118139
Mind if I ask whom? Because I still don't see a website you can show him to make it work.
>> No. 118142
>>118138
You have to realize that one of those is a lot of work, while the other isn't and they both have the same end result.
>> No. 118143
>>118142
That's not true...

You are assuming that the feature box problem is the problem itself rather than the fact the larger populace isn't really looking for good in any real way.

I mean, fix the black box all you want, but if you feed it jelly, you better have an amazing box so it starts spewing gold.
>> No. 118144
>>118141
Actually, turns out he's gone and buggered off. So no, I don't have someone.

>>118142
Not exactly. Look, I want to do this and see how it turns out.
>> No. 118148
>>118143
You're ignoring what I said before.
>Remember, just because someone "Views" a story, doesn't mean that they read the whole thing.
>> No. 118149
>>118148
What has that got to do with anything though? Bumping with every new chapter should help that problem. But it's always a problem with anything.
>> No. 118150
>>118143

>A black box with a receptacle for jelly instead of recording equipment, that apparently nano-converts matter into other things, but only if the right raw materials are put

Brony what the fuck are you talking about
>> No. 118151
>>118144
Well, get cracking.

>>118148
I haven't. I am actually saying that it doesn't matter because the feature box just reflex what people are looking for. It is a sort of vicious circle were people look at what others are looking for, so it gets look at, but then it means more people look at what others are looking.

There is no fixing the feature box in any way you could appreciate a sudden interest in, say, the Carnivore's Prayer, or Starworks.
>> No. 118152
>>118149
Not really, since FimFic already does this.
>> No. 118156
>>118152
Oh, I hate this argument. The "Something with a very different goal has a feature similar to your thing, therefore your thing is terrible!". It's like the whole "mods did it!" thing going on with Skyrim at the moment.

Yes, FimFiction gives a fanfic a little bump everytime it's updated. But you have to click on a seperate tab and then hope your fic isn't buried. With my vision the fic's bump is on the front page for everyone to see, and unlike FimFiction the fics that get to go on the site will be of a much higher standard because not just anyone can post a new fic there.
>> No. 118158
I'd like to reiterate that this isn't limited only to promoting stories. See my suggestions from earlier:

– Essays on writing and general writing tips
– Fruitful interviews (PFV uses the same set of questions each time—very boring)
– Reviews of stories

Those things should be more than enough to distinguish your blog from any existing service.
>> No. 118160
>>118158
Thing is, I'm probably not qualified to do that sort of stuff. Maybe as a sort of casual reviewer, not like the stuff here. Like, I would read a fic then give my honest opinions about it.

I have actually done an interview before: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6-nIsb1SN0
Oh yeah, I'm actually 14. Typed the last post out wrong. But anyway, I think doing a voice interview over Skype would be better. Written interviews are very easy to fall into the same trap that the Pony Vault has fallen in because it lacks the human element of a simple chat with questions. I might ask Rob Cakeran or Kkat if they can do it, that would get a massive boost in views.

As for the essays and such, I'm not going to do that. I'm really not good enough to do it, I'm not the best writer after all.
>> No. 118161
>>118160
I want to punch you again.

Look around you, you have /fic/ here, who most likely wouldn't mind helping if the whole thing didn't sounds like a lot of vaporware.

Look at this again: >>92985

You actually think anyone could do all of this on its own? No, that's crazy.

But, if you get a couple of people together, actually DO something, chances are you will get people willing to help (aka Eustatian actually got volunteers and stuff once the thing actually looked like it was going to do something).

So, see these posts: >>118158 / >>92985 , figure where you want to host this, and start asking people who might be willing to help if they can. Worse thing they can say is no. And then you simply get someone else who can.
>> No. 118162
>>118160
>>118151
>>118052

GET WORKING.
>> No. 118163
>>118161
Look, no need to get hostile. This was a thread simply asking what people would want in a fanfiction blog so I know what kind of people I should seek for help and such. It's fulfilled that task perfectly.

Anyway, it's 11pm here in Britain so starting a blog that could suck up tons of my free time and require a heavy level of commitment right now is a bit foolish. Tomorrow's the day I'll be getting some people.
>> No. 118164
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118164
>>118160
>I'm actually 14.
Ah, the ambition of youth.

You've got a shiny concept here, but I'm not seeing any real framework or moving parts. Your inentions are reasonably clear but I ain't seen how you'll get from A to B.
>> No. 118165
>>118161
And anyway, I've already worked a bit on the design of the blog and such. And I've decided that Blogger is the best bet for something like this.
>> No. 118166
Alright, so if I'm not mistaken, the driving force behind these talks is to fix the supposed problem this fandom has in that it has no place that truly does a good job highlighting fics, right? EqD used to have this job but because of the sheer amount of content they receive now, they cannot adequately highlight fanfiction anymore and no other site has decided to carry the torch, correct?

Assuming the above paragraph has properly addressed the issue, a few things:

1) How does the Fimfiction feature box not fulfill this role? Is it broken in need of fixing? Or is it a lost cause?

2) If One Man's Pony Ramblings and the Pony Fiction Vault are solutions to the EqD problem (as I think it's been stated a few times), why is there still this demand for solutions? Are they not popular enough? Are they lacking something fundamental?

3) Why is there talk of doing other things on this hypothetical new blog? If it's simply supposed to fix the highlighting problem, why not start there and then work on including other things later, or are these additional features necessary for the blog to work?

/endless questions
>> No. 118168
>>118164
That's what today has been, a day for building up the concept and plans. Tomorrow is when I'll be releasing some google docs detailing my plans and who I might need to help make this thing a possibility.

>>118166
>1) How does the Fimfiction feature box not fulfill this role? Is it broken in need of fixing? Or is it a lost cause?

The Fimfiction feature box is only based on popularity and popularity alone, not quality. For example, I've seen terribly written fics there just because they had some sort of meta joke or something that made them popular. It's not a good way of featuring the best of the fandom, more a glorified popular posts box.

>
2) If One Man's Pony Ramblings and the Pony Fiction Vault are solutions to the EqD problem (as I think it's been stated a few times), why is there still this demand for solutions? Are they not popular enough? Are they lacking something fundamental?

One Man's Pony Ramblings is a review blog mainly. But, it only reviews fics that have gotten the 6-star rating on EQD. And since they've dumped the rating system on EQD then no new an amazing fics can be posted. And really, it's a personal blog not a blog to feature other fics.

Pony Fiction Vault is really just what it's name implies. A vault for older fics to be put so people can download them and put them on their ebooks. It doesn't "feature" new stories, it simply picks some of the best and makes them into a readable format.

>3) Why is there talk of doing other things on this hypothetical new blog? If it's simply supposed to fix the highlighting problem, why not start there and then work on including other things later, or are these additional features necessary for the blog to work?

They're not necessary for the blog to work of course, but they're definitely an important part. If I just featured fics but bumped them fore very new chapter than it would basically just be EQD but with only fanfics. Those things I've proposed are sure fire ways for the blog to do something new that I haven't really seen before in any decent pony blog. Say, getting an interview with Kkat or Pen Stroke or RobCakeran would garner a LOT of views for the site, which will in turn get more people wanting their fics on there which will get more views for the site. It's a very good way to get popular.
>> No. 118170
Oh hey.

You're the guy I talked to in IRC a while ago.

My Little Problem was pretty great if only because of the competent writing compared with a highly reasonable yet slightly fucked-up premise.
>> No. 118192
>>118166
>1) How does the Fimfiction feature box not fulfill this role? Is it broken in need of fixing? Or is it a lost cause?

The problem with the feature box is it's run by a bot. From what I can gather, it weighs the number of views vs. the number of up-votes. Therein lies the problem, like Toasty said: You can have a horribly written story with some meta-joke or meme, 50 people read it, and 25 like it. Therefore, it has a like-to-view ratio of 50%. Ergo, it's featured.

The solution? Put a person in charge of it. I have no idea how much BS that would entail, so I'm not bitching about it. I couldn't do it, so I can't start demanding changes. They hosted my story, so I'm happy.

Though, I WOULD kind of like to see some more quality control. I think the site has grown enough that they could hire some dedicated pre-readers. Not on EqD level, mind you, but at least someone to keep out the crap with no punctuation or foal-fooling.
>> No. 118193
>>118170
What's My Little Problem? What are you talking about exactly?
>> No. 118224
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118224
To OP and everyone else here: If you haven't yet read >>92985, please do, as well as the rest of that thread. It brings up a number of weaknesses in the current system, and a number of good proposals for what the site could/should include.

One of the points brought up repeatedly is that stories should be compelling enough to be posted. An issue of "this is really great and needs to be posted" instead of "I can't find anything wrong with this so I guess I'll post it". As such, I like the idea of crowd-sourcing a solution. Everyone here knows their personal favorite stories, or criminally under-read stories, so let's start there. Stories come in via referrals, rather than self-promotion. This hopefully helps with the incoming volume issue. EQD rejects about 80% of the fics sent its way, according to that table they publish. If this blog were to receive that volume, then by definition it would reject even more fics, which wastes both the reviewers' time and the authors' time. If a fic has to be so good that another individual takes the time to submit it to this blog and even write up a few sentences on why it deserves to be there, then that saves the reviewers a lot of time.
>Flaws: Very popular writers are nearly-guaranteed to have fans submit their works. Under-read authors are, by definition, under-read, and unlikely to be suggested by anypony unless the reviewers themselves discover their work. Some authors might have a crony who recommends all their work no matter how awful, and/or the author might pester all their FimFic readers to submit to this blog, but the reviewers still have it within their discretion to reject any fic sent their way.

The most common complaint about EQD prereaders is that standards are an inconsistent crapshoot. That complaint is followed closely by that some fics that are posted do not meet my minimum standards (which are, of course, what everypony's standards should be). My suggestion is two-part: remove anonymity, and have at least two reviewers review each story. By remove anonymity, what I mean is having a static handle. It doesn't need to be tied to a public email, and it doesn't need to be the same as your author handle. So whether you want to be Reviewer Pav Feira, or Reviewer Twilight Sparkle, that's fine. But have a handle. Be an entity. When a story is accepted, it's made public that Pav Feira and Twilight Sparkle accepted it. When a story is reviewed, it is reviewed by Pav Feira and Twilight Sparkle, preferably in a script format, like how zines/websites sometimes present interviews. Pav spent a few paragraphs talking about how the characterization felt off. Twilight Sparkle agreed, but countered that the world-building is quite ambitious, and both of them agreed that the comedy is nonpareil, thus it's still worth a read.

The reason for this is simple: reviews are built on trust. No one will ever see eye-to-eye with you on every piece of entertainment, let alone equine fiction. Every potential reviewer will like one story you hate, and hate on the story you consider to be the pinnacle of the fandom. As such, recruit reviewers who have sound opinions and good judgment, but don't fret over it beyond a certain point. Much as how sites like Yahoo News, IGN, etc host articles written by contributors, so should this blog. By having a static handle, people can make their own informed opinions about each reviewer. I personally think Pav Feira is too easy, but he at least gives detailed feedback. I personally think Twilight Sparkle can read my mind when it comes to romantic comedy, but her opinions on sadfics are shite. Everypony will have their own opinion about how much/little they trust each reviewer, and they can use this to make informed decisions. Of course, if visitor feedback overwhelmingly states that Pav Feira is too easy all of my exes agree then the site admins can pass that feedback to the reviewer, or even replace the reviewer if they're not up to snuff (thereby fixing a stagnation issue that the EQD PRs bring up on occasion).
>Flaws: Hatemail hatemail hatemail. This probably promotes the need for obscured handles like Twilight Sparkle rather than used-elsewhere handles like Pav Feira. But as mentioned, it's okay to not like things but don't be a dick about it, and said hate may be useful feedback. I'm not sure that a few vulgar emails is a sufficient deterrent, especially if it's restricted to one central feedback email address.

Reviewers could even specialize, if done carefully. Maybe Daring Do only does adventure and longfics. Cranky Doodle Donkey only does old, under-appreciated fics. I say "if done carefully" because of the above point about trusting individual reviewers. You wouldn't want Lyra and Bon Bon to do all of their reviews as a static tag-team, because what if someone doesn't trust either of their reviews? You'd want review groups to be shuffled a bit, so that even if I don't trust Lyra's reviews, maybe she'll get paired up with someone I trust more.

On the note of "this is really great and needs to be posted" fics, I don't think there's a particular obligation to maintain a queue like EQD, where every story is guaranteed to get a look over. It should be more treated like an ask-pony tumblr, wherein you're welcome to recommend fic X as much as you'd like (although like EQD, a 3-strike system would save everyone the heartache of repeated prompts for fic X), but I'll ignore those recommendations if it doesn't look interesting. If you wanna increase the odds of me reading it, then sell me on it when you recommend it to the blog.

I'm kinda getting psyched on this idea. Since efforts were already put underway on Pegasus Quill and Solar Flare, is there any interest in reviving those efforts (rather than building up a third spec from scratch)? Filler? Eustian? Anypony?
>> No. 118226
>>118224
I agree. It'd do good to consider the place not as a showcase, nor a place where stories are "accepted or denied" per se, but rather a place where stories are presented alongside reviews for the reader to make the decision.

Two sets of volunteers would be necessary, in a way: the "slush readers" that Eustatian wanted, to determine which works have something substantial to discuss/review, and the reviewers. (Naturally you could have overlap between the two.)

It's important to try not to be "EqD, but done my way", but instead provide a service that the market hasn't seen already.
>> No. 118228
>>118224
I put the Pegasus Quill aside because I didn't think I could do it alone. That was in part because I wanted to make sure that all of the stories are fully edited, which... I was doing alone, and I burnt out on that.

Also a factor was Eustatian's Solar Flare. I wanted to see where that was going, since it looked like he had a solid plan and all that.

I have ideas on how such a blog would work, but at this point, they're just ideas. My email's in my name if you want to discuss it because you're not in #fic at the time of this posting.
>> No. 118230
... will be posted tomorrow. Pav Fiera's post has convinced me to change a lot about the site, so that's why it hasn't been posted today. It'll basically say exactly what features the blog will have, exactly what kinds of people I'll need and the rules that I have laid out in terms of what fics are allowed to be posted.
>> No. 118237
I have a question. Have any of you asked Knightly if he's doing anything to try and fix the feature box? Maybe if enough of us bug him, he'll do something about it.
>> No. 118239
>>118237
We'd have to know the current implementation specifics and what data is actually available to be of any help. Somehow I think he doesn't want that made public.

A simple thing that I figure should be done is using site views rather than time for things, e.g., post stories every x site views rather than every 10 minutes. That way, what time of day something is posted doesn't affect its exposure.
>> No. 118240
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118240
>>118237
I think the Samurai has talked to him before, or was at least planning to.

I've shopped the idea around of weighted reviews before. So, assuming things were moved back to the star system, there would be an algorithm (forgive me if my jargon is inaccurate) that would track how you rate stories. If you only hand out fives on a silver platter or puke up ones for Fluttershy ship that doesn't include Big Macintosh as the second part of the equation, your reviews would slowly be devalued. Being varied and properly utilizing all of the score bar would keep you at regular weighting. Active users could attain higher weighting by making meaningful comments/reviews and publishing quality stories.

I also suggested that only published authors that had achieved a modest number of views/ratings would be able to rate other stories, thereby keeping people from making a bunch of throw-away profiles and spamming ratings. If you want to have a say in the system, you have to contribute to it yourself and also be subject to it. That is, of course, a very rough idea and still needs a lot of fine-tuning.

The Samurai suggested that only users could give a story a pass to be published. In essence, you would have, say, a single vote. If used, you would have to wait an hour before voting again. After a story receives enough votes it would be published onto the site proper. In order to entice people to read the stories waiting for votes, there would be token rewards like titles (So, if a username was Trixie and they contributed to the system, they could earn a "Great and Powerful" title), more votes an hour, stuff like that.
I'm probably butchering his idea, so ask him if you want a real explanation.
>> No. 118243
>>118240
So writers would be intimidated into not writing, readers would have to grind for badges, and all in all the site would probably turn out worse than fanfiction.net.

I think I'd go back to pony fiction archive if that ever came to pass.
>> No. 118245
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118245
>>118243
>Not mad, just dissapoint
It would be a peer-review system. If you have a way to allow users to submit their own work that would allow for minimal micro-management and help maintain a semi-decent level of quality, I'm all ears. Knocking something without proposing an improvement or even giving detailed reasons behind your thin criticisms is in rather poor taste.

>So writers would be intimidated into not writing
They would be enticed to produce quality work to make sure they get published. Since each user only has one vote, they can't just dole them out. They have to look at a story and seriously think "Does this warrant the use of a limited resource?" It forces them to be critical and gauge which work is better than others.

>readers would have to grind for badges
Badges are nothing more than marks of renown. There is nothing necessary about them (as your use of "would" seems to imply) and their only use is bragging rights.

> and all in all the site would probably turn out worse than fanfiction.net.
Here is a baseless opinion. Look, I am throwing it around.
>> No. 118251
>>118245
>Badges are nothing more than marks of renown. There is nothing necessary about them

Hats. People grind for days to get hats on TF2.
They'll grind for badges too. Just give them something to grind and they'll try to get it, however stupid it might be.
>> No. 118274
>>118245
The whole point of the site is that any story can be posted, and that's the way it should remain.

The idea of giving badge rewards sounds like it'll work about as well as extraction information through torture. Some people will be wanting to grind for badges as fast as they can, and won't genuinely care about the vote they make. On the other hand, this whole system sounds awful. From readers choosing what's approved, to certain figures holding more sway with their opinions, to badge reward system, you're turning reading into a chore, and pushing people too hard make an account.

Fimfiction is meant to publish all fanfiction (that is actually fanfiction in a proper story format). The ideas listed above are a very fast way to making a very unpopular site.

That being said, I wouldn't mind new accounts having to wait 3 days before being able to rate stories, or something.
>> No. 118279
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118279
>>118224
>Reviewers could even specialize, if done carefully. Maybe Daring Do only does adventure and longfics. Cranky Doodle Donkey only does old, under-appreciated fics. I say "if done carefully" because of the above point about trusting individual reviewers. You wouldn't want Lyra and Bon Bon to do all of their reviews as a static tag-team, because what if someone doesn't trust either of their reviews? You'd want review groups to be shuffled a bit, so that even if I don't trust Lyra's reviews, maybe she'll get paired up with someone I trust more.
That... That is actually quite interesting, and not just because it opens a chance to have a reviewer called Patchouli Knowledge (pic related). In fact, it sounds like the groundwork for something we could adapt for the TG should the need for more structure arise.

Also, tangentially related, I like the idea of public pseudonyms for posted stories. The reviewers behind the pseudonyms get their ego stroked some form of acknowledgement, and is still perfectly safe under their own penname should their opinions somehow suck in relation to the vocal populace. That's just a long way of saying that the idea sounds fun, which is rather important in having a volunteer workforce that will stick around.
>> No. 118292
>>118251
Precisely. A little trinket and people go nuts. With that in place they'll be all over the new story queue trying to earn some lovely doohickey. My only problem was that he said they would have to when there's nothing more than your e-peen on the line.

>>118274
>The whole point of the site is that any story can be posted, and that's the way it should remain.
The whole point is that your story can be posted and will be subject to peer review. Sure, you can post your story, but it may not be published onto the site proper. Writers can't bitch about Pre-Reader bias (although I'm sure they'll find something else) when it's the community that shuts them down.

> you're turning reading into a chore
If you want to read, you can read. Nothing stops people from doing that. Get your facts straight.

>me people will be wanting to grind for badges as fast as they can, and won't genuinely care about the vote they make.
Businesses have been using this to great effect for centuries in the form of stock bonuses and the like. Rotten Tomatoes has their "Super Reviewer" status and they're the largest movie-review website in the world, so they're obviously doing something right with that. N4G and its sister sites have a sidebar with the best user reviewers and they're the biggest tech-news aggregate on the web. When someone makes an awesome review, they get bonuses, renown, even a place on the front page. People love that shit, they want that attention and, best of all, they get that warm fuzzy feeling that they're contributing to the site as a whole while also helping an individual writer improve themselves.
Of course there'll be a few people that abuse the system, but that's why there can be other checks in place against them. Requiring that they give a reason for their vote would be an obvious one and it's not like there can't be a system that looks at their page time and says "Well, he spent five seconds on this page and made a vote, which is probably bullshit."

>Fimfiction is meant to publish all fanfiction
Thanks, Captain Obvious.

>The ideas listed above are a very fast way to making a very unpopular site.
This site isn't about publishing every piece of crap that comes its way, it's to make a peer-driven system where the users have the ultimate say in what stays and what goes. They have power and everyone craves that to some degree. Not only that, but it teaches them via necessity to be critical, so it's also a stealth education tool, one that our culture desperately needs.

>That being said, I wouldn't mind new accounts having to wait 3 days before being able to rate stories, or something.
People could still make ten accounts and just wait a bit. That's why the "Published Story" requirement is there, since if you want all of those alts you have to earn them, otherwise people could just vote their own story up. Plenty of sites do this, from forums that only let newbies post in a small area for X number of posts and Y number of days to review sites like Metacritic that require reviewers to have a certain number of page views and weights them via an algorithm.

Right now, I could publish a mediocre story onto Fimfiction and, within a few minutes, make a dozen puppet profiles to vote it up, putting it well on the way to Featured status. This is the system you seem to think is superior, where one guy can easily screw it over with a minimum of effort.

>>118279
This has merit. Still, this bit--
>The reviewers behind the pseudonyms get their ego stroked some form of acknowledgement, and is still perfectly safe under their own penname should their opinions somehow suck in relation to the vocal populace.
--reminds me of the mods here on Ponychan and the trouble that came when their names were leaked by disgruntled friends or ex-mods. Assuming they wanted to keep it secret, of course.
>> No. 118304
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118304
>subject to peer review

I have a complaint about this. Stories on fimfiction are already subject to peer review via the upvote/downvote system. But badly rated stories don't fail to get published on the site. They still find a few readers. That seems to me important.

If you raise those basic stakes, the required minimum hurdle for getting any publicity, then you'll only introduce more division into the community. On the one hand, there are enough low-minded readers to ensure any half-decent clopfiction or rauchy jokefic (or lol-so-random or omg-so-meta) gets published, despite whatever protests the literati may stage. Then you'll have anger about "why X got posted but Y got rejected", charges of arbitrariness, and so on. Then you'll have readers and writers developing fucking philosophies of acceptance/rejection, and they'll split into factions, the feelies who think "This story gave me deep feels, +1 accept" vs. the elitists who like to trump up, in a load of objective-sounding bullshit, an argument of the form "This isn't as good as White Box, therefore reject" vs. the love&tolerance crew who think EVERY story deserves acceptance, vs. the anti-shipping starbombing trolls, and so on.

Then, given that the ones doing the "peer-reviewing" all have different standards, the entire system could seem like a sort of mob rule. And that's basically what we have now on fimfiction, but it's not such a big deal because the stories still get published to the site. Raising the stakes, handing MORE power to the mob, can only inflame emotions.
>> No. 118328
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118328
>>118304
The stories are still "on" the site, they're just not eligible to become part of the main system, meaning they can't get featured and other such perks.

Yes, but the difference is that you only have one vote. Users that make quality reviews and provide detailed reasons behind their votes get more of them and have their opinions weighted more heavily. In time, contributing posters will receive enough bonuses to outstrip the drooling masses.

>Then you'll have anger about "why X got posted but Y got rejected", charges of arbitrarines arbitrariness
People can only blame the community for not voting their story in.

Power is being given to those who stand out from the mob. Everyone is equal at the start, but some are made more equal than others because they prove they're capable of being critical and helpful.
>> No. 118334
>>118292
The thing is, you're using sites like metacritic, rotten tomatoes, and N4G as examples. But those are reviewing sites, and fimfiction is not, and shouldn't ever be.

>Right now, I could publish a mediocre story onto Fimfiction and, within a few minutes, make a dozen puppet profiles to vote it up, putting it well on the way to Featured status. This is the system you seem to think is superior, where one guy can easily screw it over with a minimum of effort.

Except if you do this, the mods will catch wind, ban you, and delete the story. You're wanting to make fimfiction into something it's not, assuming you're still talking about making these changes to fimfiction, which was what your initial message said.

This is not a massive community like readers of published literature, or movie goers, this is my little pony fanfiction, and we don't need a metacritic to judge stories. It's fanfiction. You know how you can sort of tell when something will fail? This idea would fail. You do not have the right audience for it, and I think you're ignoring that fact.

If this system went through? Most people would never touch the unapproved fic pile, leaving fics to not be judged by the community, but a small unscrupulous pile of reviewers with no qualifications. People would hate it. Authors who get rejected would hate it and give up on fanfiction, readers would feel like content they may have liked is being held back, people are going to want to dispute every single pass or fail, and what would this even change? The community will pass the feature box fodder, the same way the feature box fodder reaches the feature box in the first place. If the quality is really decided by the community, it would likely end up somewhere close to exactly where it is right now, only more convoluted and terrible. You are completely ignoring the reader demographic of my little pony fanfiction.

So yes, this idea would crash and burn, and it's full of wishful, and unrealistic, thinking.
>> No. 118337
>>118334
>You do not have the right audience for it, and I think you're ignoring that fact.

>Looks at /fic/, where people said the exact same things.

I believe you are being stubborn at this point.
>> No. 118338
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118338
>>118328
>>118334
>A Metacritic for FiMfiction
This could work as a separate site. Right now the only thing like it is the individual user's favorites lists.
>> No. 118340
>>118337
I believe you're just ignoring the actual plausibility of the idea. No one in charge of running the site would even think of using an idea like this.

/fic/ is by no means close to a representation of the community at large.
>> No. 118345
>>118334
I had a nice reply made, and then the browser derped.

Short version:
I'm talking about a new site. I should have made it more clear. Heck, it would hardly even have to be solely dedicated to MLP. I believe such a project could and would benefit all writers on the internet.

It would be easy to go to any of the half-dozen public computers within walking distance of my house, assuming I even needed to use different IPs at all. The system is as broken as it is easily abused.

The fandom is quite large, actually. Many stories on FimFiction have more comments than movies on Rotten Tomatoes.

>It's fanfiction.
That is the same excuse a bad writer gives for their shitty story. You know what my reply to it is?
Fuck.
That.
That is not a justification, it isn't even a proper excuse. People want quality, you just have to show what it can do for them first. FimFiction is like looking for rhinestones in a dung pile.

> This idea would fail. You do not have the right audience for it, and I think you're ignoring that fact.
If you build it, they will come. I think you're ignoring the fact that there's more than just FimFiction, just as there are people in FimFiction that want more than what it can offer.

>So yes, this idea would crash and burn, and it's full of wishful, and unrealistic, thinking.
And yet you have not offered even a single alternative of your own, despite the fact that the current system that you so doggedly defend is far from ideal, never mind perfect.
Your lack of faith in our ability to think and grow is as disappointing as your lack of constructive critique, which is rather the whole point of the idea in the first place.
Your argument is built off of abstracts and the single-minded insistence that it won't work. There is no true precedent for this, yet you believe it can't end any other way than disaster. Frankly, I have found you to be a rather poor partner in this duet of ideologies. I am all for being proven to be wrong via factual evidence, but your simply saying as much accomplishes little and only serves to widen the rift.

>>118337
Precisely. /fic/ itself is a testament to how, with the proper environment and system, great things can be made.

>>118338
I love that pic.

>>118340
And I believe you are dismissing it out of hand on no more than a whim.
>> No. 118352
>>118345
Ion, don't listen to SLP, just make this site. It's not like he can stop you. I care enough about fanfiction to actually learn the necessary coding if you need any help.
>> No. 118354
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118354
>>118352
Oh, I wish I had the kind of drive to do it, to learn how to do it. I'm just the idea guy. This, all of this, it's just me musing (with some borrowing from the good Samurai).
>> No. 118356
>>118354
I've lurked /collab/ enough to know that an “ideas guy” is next to useless.
>> No. 118357
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118357
>>118356
As much as I resent it, I can't disagree with that.
>> No. 118358
>>118340
Well, if you had bothered to read you would know that I am trying to say this:

If you had told me that /fic/ would have become a place where things are organized, people get helpful advice, and is all things not fanfiction year and half ago, I would have laughed at you because /fic/ clearly sucked [use your imagination, but it involves a donkey] for anything like that. You would have gotten better luck in fanfiction.net.

Well, shit, I can't say that now, can I?

Now look. From where I see it, you are either being actively pessimistic without any reason, or just being stubborn for the sake of thinking you are right. Other places have run similar systems and have made them their own. Why it couldn't work here, when /fic/ kind of did something similar, isn't something I can get.
>> No. 118360
>>118345
I looked at your previous message, and by all means it looked like you were talking about imposing these changes to fimfiction. Which sounded downright silly.

Starting a new blog or new site to do this kind of thing would be feasible. It wasn't clear from your message, but it looked like you wanted to change fimfiction, which I think would be a mistake, since the site fills its role (more or less) perfectly.

"It's fanfiction" isn't to say that you shouldn't give a fuck about quality, it's to say that most people don't give a fuck about quality when it comes to fanfiction, so imposing those kind of requirements on the mainstream site would have caused uproar, rioting, flipped tables, and a team of angry neckbeards sending equally angry messages to knighty.

I stand firm in my belief that imposing those kind of changes to fimfiction would be stupid as hell, and questionable of how much interest that kind of 'hardcore' rating site would garner from the community
>> No. 118380
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118380
>>118360
No, the plan is more to replace EqD as the go-to place for high-quality stories. Perhaps edge out FimFiction, too and leave them the rejects, which wouldn't really be much of a change from the current status quo of them picking up those denied entrance onto EqD. There would also be the bonus of making a sort of mega-/fic/ and encouraging a more constructive writing and reviewing experience.

People don't care about quality because they haven't truly experienced it. If you had someone that ate frozen pizza all their life and they tried some from the local Italian pizzeria, to say they would be dumbstruck by the sheer change in quality that they'd never go back. This is the idea; to give people stories that are so engaging that they simply wouldn't be able to look at the shipping dreck they used to claim was "amazing". Before people know what quality is, they must first be introduced to it.

My only suggestion for FimFiction would be the weighted ratings since that would allow for a scale instead of the binary thumbs up/down that's in place, thereby giving a more accurate depiction of a story's quality. With bombers having their one-votes rendered neglible and high-fivers not being able to peddle their good feels, the way would be left open for more educated readers to give an accurate rating.

Oh, and a dead time between making a profile and being able to vote on stories, but that was something you didn't seem to have any qualms with.
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