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File 135178568442.jpg - (582.39KB , 1920x1080 , The_Long_Earth.jpg )
123620 No. 123620
#Discussion

In this thread we, the users of /fic/, shall discuss the possibility of moving from Ponychan to MLPchan.

Obviously, this represents a radical shift for the board on a level not felt since the introduction of the sticky. While a move was proposed some three months back, MLPchan was still in its infancy and had yet to achieve the level of functionality that Ponychan offered, leading to the decision that /fic/ would remain on Ponychan for the time being. MLPchan has both delivered on its promised upgrades and made several additional features, which will be expanded upon shortly. In addition to this, Demetrius’ Gummii project appeared to be on the horizon, leaving the userbase with the dilemma of moving, only to possibly change its base of operations again in a short time. Demetrius has stated that the Gummii project will not be ready for quite some time, meaning that a second move will not be occurring in the immediate future. In light of these recent events, the topic of moving to MLPchan has been re-opened.

A list of pros and cons has been compiled here:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/15ASkfzGuqg_Vhko1Opj7rHiZH6Do4EUZ2W2x3Avq-kI/edit
It is open to public commenting, so feel free to leave questions or concerns about any of the items listed in it. However, please keep things civil and factual; should it devolve into a mud-slinging fest the removal of comments and/or the privilege to comment may be considered. The document is maintained by Demetri Morgan, Seattle_Lite and Ion-Sturm and is mediated by Samurai Anon.

The following is a list of commonly asked questions in regards to the potential move, which will be answered as concisely as possible. More detailed explanations can be found in the Pros and Cons document. Before you ask a question about one of these, please read more about it in Pros and Cons document to ensure it hasn’t already been answered in full there.

What notable advantages are gained by moving?
Editable Posts: User(s) may now edit posts after-the-fact.
Collapsible Spoilers: Compress long replies into a single line; great for organization.
Built-In Posting System Upgrades: Similar to Ponychan X but without third-party add-ons.
Mature Content Filter: Rules allow for the posting of mature subjects, such as “Clop” or “Gore”.
Filter system is opt-in; if you don’t select it, you will not see any of this.

What notable disadvantages are caused by moving?
Thread Moving: You will need to remake your thread.
Watched Threads: Not yet finished. Currently being worked on. ETA is within the week.
Thread Search: Not yet implemented. Currently being worked on. ETA is within two weeks.

Points of Interest:
MLPchan has a lower overall user population as compared to Ponychan.
MLPchan’s /fic/ has a dedicated moderator.

Additional Notes:
MLPchan’s administrators have been very forthcoming with information and assistance in regards to this move. If you have any other questions that can only be answered by them or you wish to make discreet inquiries, they may be reached at their respective E-mail addresses:
Community Administrator: [email protected]
System Operations Administrator: [email protected]
Unspoiler all text  • Expand all images  • Reveal spoilers
>> No. 123621
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123621
Cool! So, two things immediately occur--

I think it's important for the community to know who its dedicated mod will be, as he/she ...okay, most likely he, is a long-term /fic/ person.

Two--
I am absurdly attached to my best pone background. Can that come too?
>> No. 123623
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123623
>>123621
The have a Wonderbolts theme that is similar. Style sheets are easier to make on MLPchan's Tinyboard (or so I've heard), so there should be plenty getting made.

Voting for anonymity for the mod can take place after a decision has been reached. Several long-time /fic/ users were apparently asked about it, including the Samurai, and it was recommended he be anonymous. Personally, I think this is for the best; we can always petition the admin team to de-mod him if things go south and, if that does happen, they can still be an active part of the board without the stigma of a failed modship hanging over them. That said, I have the utmost faith in their ability and don't believe it shall come to that.
>> No. 123624
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123624
>>123623
Cloudsdale theme*
>> No. 123625
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123625
>>123623
Nice, I'll check the theme.

Your second point, wholeheartedly disagree. Why the anonymity of the mod when you and several others obviously know his identity?
>I have the utmost faith in their ability
Well, yeah, because you know this person. I'm glad you trust this person's character, but others may not share the same opinion based on their own experiences.

...Gotta say, I also find that amusing a bit considering how you've always crusaded so vehemently against anons, heh.
>> No. 123628
>>123625
Correction: No one but the administrator and the mod team knows !!Spike's identity. The Samurai suggested which people could make for good mods but he doesn't know exactly. He also recommended they be anonymous.
>> No. 123629
IRC is moving too fast all. We'll post a pastebin with logs and highlights afterwards. Right now we've ... damn. a lot of ppl in there.
>> No. 123630
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123630
Wow, I had no idea you folks were still going to consider this actually. If you guys have any questions about moderation, I'd be happy to answer what I can, and direct to the others what I'm not aware of to get a solid answer.

Good luck. I'm no /fic/ person, but my main desire is to see everyone in this community end up in a place where they can be happy and get what they want out of the community, whether that happens at MLPChan or Ponychan.
>> No. 123631
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123631
As someone who largely uses ponychan for /fic/ (only uses ponychan for /fic/). The benefits of the move look attractive, and it would be nice to see discussion of mature things that have some literary merit. Considering how long-winded posts are here, how it's a writer's board, and how any errors in your post will be noticed, the ability to edit after posting sounds really good.
>> No. 123638
>>123620
>the topic of moving to MLPchan has been re-opened.
By whom? I thought we had already come to a decision last time this came up. Are you just going to keep trying again every few months?
>> No. 123639
>>123638
By several people. Talks in the IRC are ongoing and so far the reception is overwhelmingly positive.
>> No. 123641
I started tripcoding here so I could start a fic review thread and a thread for my art, but since I haven't made any of those yet, a move sounds fine.
>> No. 123642
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123642
2 things in that Google doc confuse me and i dont feel like clogging it up with stupid comments:

>NSFW Tagging: The site still has rules against straight-up smut, snuff fics or otherwise. Any one-handed clopfics dumped on the board will be subject to moderator removal, meaning a repeat of FiMchan or FiMFiction is not going to happen.
>Already Prepared: The board is empty save for a few review threads.


1st: There's straight up porn on their /pic/ right now, so... wat?

2nd: How is that a positive thing? I thought this was one of the issues [i]against[/i[ moving last time.
>> No. 123643
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123643
No matter what happens, I'm in for this move. Where /fic/ goes, I follow.
>> No. 123644
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123644
>>123638
Well, imho, better to do the move before the holiday season and influx of fics than after. And the move really does have several benefits which would be good long-term.
>> No. 123645
>>123639
>The board is empty save for a few review threads.
I fail to see how this is a positive. Futher, /fic/ is largely self-policing, as the doc notes, and this site's staff is respectful of that; we've found a good balance over time. In the rare case that their involvement is even required, there have been no issues with lack of attention or response time, including in the most recent /meta/ thread which should not have even been made. You're extrapolating based on your own interactions with them, during which your dismissive treatment is typically well-earned.

>His moderator handle is !!Spike, while his normal screen name is unknown, although he is purportedly a long-time member of Ponychan’s /fic/.
It makes me rather uneasy that he needs to hide behind anonymity while this decision is being made, for reasons I'm sure you are already well aware of.
>> No. 123646
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123646
>>123645
>The !!Spike thing

Yeah man, take it from someone who did the whole "mod = anon to the public" rodeo before, it wont end well.
>> No. 123647
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123647
>>123642

As I said, I'm happy to answer questions about moderation.

I have no comment on the second part, but there's a different between /pic/ and /fic/. The NSFW tagging system was made to allow the posting and discussion of NSFW content. In the case of /pic/ and /anon/, those are fair game.

/fic/, meanwhile, is a creative-type board. You can post and discuss stuff that features nsfw material that occurs within the story (gory events, sex scenes) but it's not a shitting-dick-nipple smut dumping ground.

Of course, Fenion-kun, that stuff is also hidden by default regardless by the NSFW tagging system.
>> No. 123648
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123648
>>123642
/fic/ has always prided itself on its self-policing and high standards, Fenolio/Angel. With the backing of the dedicated moderator, any clop threads for someone's incest fic or what have you can be quickly marked and deleted.

Because it means /fic/'s reviewers don't have to contend with an existing system like it did when Ponychan's /fic/ was adapted. No weeks and months of quarreling; the place is a hermit crab shell waiting for a new host.

>>123643
>>123644
Thank you for your support.

>>123645
See above.

It was recommended that he be anonymous. Should he prove to not be adequate, he can step down and rejoin /fic/ without suffering from the stigma of a failed moderatorship. As the document states, popular opinion can make a reveal but, from the talks in the IRC, people seem to be fine with the anonymity as long as he does his job. This was the case with Ponychan's mods before they were revealed, an event that was necessary due to several cases of a moderator going rogue and a general distrust of the moderator system's effectiveness.
>> No. 123649
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123649
>>123646
>>123645

>It makes me rather uneasy that he needs to hide behind anonymity while this decision is being made, for reasons I'm sure you are already well aware of.
>Yeah man, take it from someone who did the whole "mod = anon to the public" rodeo before, it wont end well.

This seems to me like scaremongering. This is a discussion thread, it would behoove you to elaborate for the benefit of those (such as myself) who are not "already well aware" of your reasons.

Additionally, framing the moderator's anonymity as "hiding" seems like a rhetorical gesture intended to incite disrespect.
>> No. 123650
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123650
>>123649
Especially since they're anonymous themselves.
>> No. 123653
>The board is empty

That the board is empty is a positive inasmuch as it means we will be free to impose our own culture on it without stepping on anyone's toes.
>> No. 123654
>>123639
Ion, if you hate this site so much, feel free to go. But I would like to know why do you feel like it is your prerogative to drag every other user of the board along with you?

It is hard to believe that this !!Spike is not involved in these massive endeavors to move from one site to another nearly identical one when the primary benefits to doing so are mostly functionality differences.

>>123653
What is it that you dislike about the culture here?
>> No. 123655
I haven't seen a single serious objection from a single person, so if I understand it, it's going to take a week or so for the MLPchan Admins to set up.

Which means people:

Copypaste sticky OP with updated links.

Open new threads over there, then on move day have mods here lock them after a final post with redirect link. Queues would stay fully intact.
>> No. 123657
>>123648
The "weeks and months of quarreling" people talk about were caused by reviewers wanting to take over the board and exile non-review threads, so a small amount of conflict was understandable. It wasn't caused by problems with the staff -- in the end they did what the majority wanted after that became clear. Mind you, that was over a year ago, and has been irrelevant for a long time, regardless of your tendency to consistently bring it up. Today, /fic/ is owned by the reviewers, and ever since then, there has been no trying to contend with an existing system, because we are the system.

>>123649
Were I to elaborate, it would reveal his identity to anyone who knew him. Out of respect for him, I'm not going to, although even in this small situation you can see how there is a conflict of interest between secrecy of identities, and explaining things to people who deserve to know the facts of their present situation.
>> No. 123658
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123658
>>123654

Who are you? Please name yourself, if you're going to be making personal attacks.

>What is it that you dislike about the culture here?
I'm afraid you have misread my post. The culture of /fic/ is exactly what we want to preserve throughout the move. That is why an empty board to move into is a good thing to have—if it's all the same people, the culture stays the same.
>> No. 123660
So if you guys all leave what happens to fic? Is anything that produces content going to stay here or is it going to just be self promotion and asking what story x is from?

Basically, if the review threads, training ground, recommendations, write offs, author appreciation and pre-reader threads leave, what's left? I don't really care, the content will be still exist albeit in another place. But now we'll have a big empty hole titled fic.
>> No. 123661
>>123657
> explaining things to people who deserve to know the facts of their present situation.

If you're holding onto some information that's going to impact the community, then spill it man! Is something shady going on here?
>> No. 123663
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123663
>>123643
While I could care less about where I review the prospect of being able to actually show my reviews of smut without deferring everything to fimfiction private messages. Still at the behest of Garnot I'm supposed to follow him around. So if we do end up leaving I propose that we make this the pop song of the thread http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WA4iX5D9Z64
>> No. 123664
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123664
Oh look, this thread again.

If you guys are okay with even fewer people coming to /fic/, go for it, but I don't really see the benefits as substantial enough to move.
>> No. 123667
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123667
>>123647
Ah okay Marc-san, that makes sense.

>>123648
Gotcha, and ignore the Angel thing, i have no idea how to change that to Shiny.

And the mod reveal was actually to remove the Illuminati thing that happened, what with select people knowing the mods identities while the unwashed masses didn't.

>>123649
A mod who is anon will inevitably slip up and reveal their regular trip / someone will figure it out for the hell of it.
Best case scenario: Being anon is pointless.
Worst case: The people who know the mods identity can try and influence site decisions on a greater basis than a regular user.

Sounds silly, but that's what happened. Granted, it probably wont be as big a problem on mlpchan, but might still be a concern.

Also, if their role is going to be strictly janitorial, how the hell could they screw up so badly as to make people hate them?
I can confirm that Marce isn't an idiot at least, so i figure any person they mod wont suddenly decide to delete every other thread and be forced to step down.

>>123655
Give me a list of the threads that'd you be moving and i could take care of that.

>>123660
I figure it'd be self promotion / fic discussion / fic directory / other people decide to start reviewing things.

>>123661
Would just like to point out, this is what i was talking about up there with the Illuminati thing.
>> No. 123668
>>123629
>IRC is moving too fast all. We'll post a pastebin with logs and highlights afterwards. Right now we've ... damn. a lot of ppl in there.

>>123655
>Nevermind, I'm just going to tell everyone what to do, two hours after the thread started, when the USA is still at work and barely any time has passed for people to give input. I can ignore all counterpoints because I do not deem them "serious objections".

... Really? I can't even take this seriously anymore. You are free to go, but good luck getting people to follow.
>> No. 123669
>>123664
Honestly Vim, it doesn't really effect us all that much, and we don't have to do shit. Aside from not say "Hell no."
I just my Dash background *shrugs*

>>123660
This board would go back to what it was before it was established.

>>123667
I don't like the anon mod on general principal. At all. But the potential problems would be minimal and easily addressed.

As for the threads, the thread owners would be the ones for that.
>> No. 123670
>>123668
What? I'm just summing commentary. Nothing's stopping you from getting in irc and voicing your objections with your, yknow, peers.
>> No. 123671
>>123658
I haven't made any personal attacks, I've only speculated out loud. I do not know this person's identity and I am sure he or she is a perfectly great one.

Suffice to say I don't think the board move is a good idea, and I question why the same few people feel like it is so important and bring it up repeatedly. I assume that this is typically something that only a person with a vested interest in the matter would do. Please forgive my presumptuousness, but I believe it is not much of a stretch for you to understand why I would imagine this?

Since this is an image board and filling in the name field is optional, I choose not to. If that makes me a coward then so be it.

Now that I've said what I wanted to, I'll refrain from commenting further, as I don't want to upset anyone. But do feel free to address my concerns if you wish, and have a fantastic day.
>> No. 123672
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123672
>>123669
If you say so.

Werent they part of the IRC discussion?
>> No. 123673
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123673
>>123669
If MLPChan has NSFW stuff, I'm not recommending /fic/ to any of the authors I reject while pre-reading or running the fic box.

This whole thing, as >>123668 said, also seems about as shady as last time this move tried to happen, where the message basically was "JUST MOVE AND STOP ASKING QUESTIONS." If you try to ramrod this through, you'll just end up with a fragmented community. Allow for some discussion, here.
>> No. 123674
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123674
>>123673
To be fair, you have to opt-in to see that stuff.
It's filtered by default.
>> No. 123675
>>123674
It will effect the board's culture, and may cause confusion about what is or is not acceptable to post in others' threads.
>> No. 123676
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123676
>>123654
I never stated I hate the site (at least in this thread and its resources). In case you haven't read the document, I did not raise a single point on the rather subjective topic of how Ponychan and MLPchan's mods compare to one another, the only times its name being mentioned during comparisons of functionality and the claim that !!Spike is from Ponychan's /fic/. This move's reasoning's are purely for functionality and I would appreciate it if you similarly stuck to the facts at hand.

I am not "dragging" them and your choice of wording is, frankly, appalling. I have surveyed many users of /fic/ and have shown the benefits that MLPchan offers and the general agreement is that their site is superior to Ponychan's due to several functions.

>>123657
Which the moderators did not make any attempt to, well, moderate during. Anons (such as yourself) bandied about slurs without any reprimand. One can not also forget the length of time between the acceptance and actual implementation of the sticky. Also, the purpose was never to "exile" non-reviewer threads, it was to establish a measure of quality control and ensure multiple threads of the same topic did not exist.

>>123667
>Give me a list of the threads that'd you be moving and i could take care of that.
Help with the TG would be greatly appreciated. I have absolutely no idea how to transfer the galut of links in it.

In regards to the moderator, again, public opinion is all that's needed. If it does come to an "Illuminati" scenario then revealing his identity would be a relatively simple matter. Besides, revealing the names didn't completely dispel the backseat moderators, as the Zamoonda cabal demonstrated.

>>123673
Which is why this thread exists. Its purpose is to educate users on the reasons, one of which you seem to have missed. The NSFW is completely opt-in; if you do not enable it, it is invisible. I was honestly expecting things to take much longer myself but the overall reception has been positive.

>>123675
No, it will not. Read the material.


I've made a pastebin for the logs. Fine it here: http://pastebin.com/XVZWAhSQ
>> No. 123677
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123677
>>123673
Yeah, it's in the PR skap too man. Considering nsfw is filtered, no other PR's care. Basically the same as fimfic man.

An yeah, I thought it felt shady last time too, but honestly, I can't uncover anything anyone has to gain from this in any way. Unless that changes, I don't really care.
>> No. 123678
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123678
>>123676
>Fine it here
Find*
And now I wish we had the post-editing.
>> No. 123679
>>123676
Ion, insulting people is not the way to gain adherence. I did understand the thread's purpose, but anyone asking questions or questioning seems to be met with derision, which is only making me less keen on this.

>>123677
"Skap?"
>> No. 123680
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123680
>>123675

We have had the NSFW tag system going on for a good while at this point and the change in community attitude has more or less been negligible. People that don't post such stuff are are separated from threads containing it, as mature content isn't allowed to be posted outside of tagged threads. People are living in harmony (harmony harmony oh love~)

Any confusion that might arise, while certainly possible, is easy enough to explain. Instead of doling out bans, we delete the content and verbally warn posters who post said material until it becomes a repeated offense.
>> No. 123682
>>123680
My primary concern comes with the review threads. If review threads are tagged with NSFW, then the business of recommending people to review threads becomes a bit trickier. When I'm pre-reading, I don't want to be misconstrued as sending people to a place where content that would violate EqD rules is posted and discussed.

One of the main reasons I loved Ponychan was because it didn't have any horse porn, something I abhor.
>> No. 123683
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123683
>>123673

By the way, !!Spike has asked me to relay that he agrees with the second part of this post regarding charging into this. I honestly do as well.

If you guys are really gonna move, don't hurry it our you could very well shatter your community to pieces. Talk it out over a nice period of time.
>> No. 123684
>>123682
It's kind of like FIMFiction or DeviantArt in the way that if you don't have the option checked, you won't be seeing any of it. Well, more like FIMFiction. DeviantArt still has the giant NO picture filter.
>> No. 123685
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123685
>>123682

I can entirely understand your concern. Different strokes for different folks. But nevertheless, I am willing to bet that plenty of reviewers won't have their threads tagged for NSFW content. Hell, they could even have one for either type of content if they so wish.

That's the most I can say on the matter, and it's one thing that /fic/ should certainly discuss. However, if it's reassuring at all, I will state when we introduced the NSFW tagging system, I was expecting a nasty division between the board, and a lot of people not seeing one another because of being in tagged threads. Instead, I was pleasantly surprised. People mostly agreed to disagree about the things they like and don't like
>> No. 123686
>>123670
I have. Like you pointed out, it's moving fast enough that it's conceivable for someone to pick and choose which messages are important enough to acknowledge. I'm sure those who get on in a few hours will similarly appreciate this decision being made for them without their input being acknowledged. Regardless, I'll still make my voice heard by voting with my feet, or in this case, my comfortable ass. Your mind is evidently made up already, though, so I hope you and those who follow you enjoy your new site.
>> No. 123687
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123687
>>123679
I am irked by his disregard for the facts. The amount of respect I have treated him with is certainly no less than what he has extended to me. That said, I understand your apprehension and shall attempt to carry myself with a little more tact.

>>123683
That was my original intention then, as the IRC logs reveal, the others wanted it to begin immediately, before the momentum was lost.

>>123684
Also, if it isn't enabled and a link to a NSFW thread is in a normal post, the system will stop the transfer and state that "You must have NSFW enabled to view this". Without enabling it, there is no way to see NSFW content (assuming it is posted properly. If this is not the case then that's what /fic/'s moderator is for).
>> No. 123688
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123688
People who want to go; go.
People who want to stay; stay.

I've just wrapped up this entire issue in 2 sentences.

This is probably what is going to happen either way.
>> No. 123689
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123689
>>123688
I have stated this before and I will do it again: A split will destroy both factions. If this is not a large majority then it will be shelved for an indeterminate amount of time. The health of /fic/ is of the utmost importance and takes precedence over improved functionality.
>> No. 123690
>>123686
Sorry, there's a part up there where it says it's gonna take at least a week for the set-up. That's plenty o time for discussion.
>> No. 123691
>>123689
I agree, and I respect your reverence for the health of the community. However, if that is what you truly believe, you would be wise to stop pushing for a split.

Is Ponychan really so broken that it needs to be fixed by uprooting and moving somewhere entirely new? People will be lost in the process, it is unavoidable. You even plan to move again when the gummi project is completed, a process in which more people will unavoidably be lost. The more intermediate sites involved in this transfer, the more people the community will lose, as some will settle in each and some will be disturbed enough by the change to cease activity.
>> No. 123692
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123692
>>123691
I'm not pushing for a split. Please, for the good of this conversation, stop purposefully misconstruing my comments. I'm proposing a move. I have not held a gun to anyone's head, merely shown them a list of why MLPchan is superior in terms of functionality and they have agreed that the site offers far more.

Ponychan is not broken, but it is far from ideal. The site simply lacks valuable and useful abilities that MLPchan offers. Inertia cannot stand in the face of progress. Apathy towards improvement is the true source of stagnation and decay. Grow or die; this is the mantra for all things in life. Change is not the cause of rot, but a lack of willingness to adapt--as shown in all natural things.

The Gummi Project will be hosted on MLPchan's server. It will simply replace /fic/. And again, its future is indeterminate, as has been stated several times. Demetrius was considering completely restarting it in a new code type; this is not the sign of a product that will be ready anywhere in the immediate future.
>> No. 123693
File 135179759255.png - (45.48KB , 448x231 , 131580530194.png )
123693
Allow me to explain myself.

Under the NSFW tag system, as I understand it, any threads discussing/reviewing horse porn will be hidden by default.

So, by default, people aren't going to be able to see some review threads when they come to this hypothetical new /fic/ looking for help. To see some threads, they'd have to do something to see such threads, and I think we've seen from how many ignore OPs and the giant "POSTING RULES" (or read, don't understand, then post anyway and violate the rules) to know how many people would actually take this step.

So, in light of this, reviewers would either have to make a SFW review and a NSFW review thread, which would create thread redundancy (which I know /fic/ hates), or be okay with missing out on a good portion of the traffic coming through the board.

So, my objection as one of the most active pre-readers and email forwarders for EqD is that recommending people to this new setup is twofold:
1. We'd be linking them to a site where content that violates the site I work for's rules is hosted and is much more diffcult to avoid than on FiMFic (you see more content of a thread than you do of a given horse porn/gore fic).
2. By default, some of the material that might help them would be behind settings they'd have to change, which hinders user friendliness. I know from how many people screw up our relatively simple submission process that a lot of them wouldn't think to enable NSFW to see all the review threads.

This is, of course, all contingent on hypotheticals, but I wouldn't be able to test any of this for sure without letting the move go through, which I am not in favor of for the reasons stated.
>> No. 123694
File 135179783954.jpg - (23.04KB , 640x362 , kaminomi_2.jpg )
123694
As it has been stated many times before, including the previous thread and the OP of this one, GUMMII is a long way off.

My reason for mentioning is this: if there are a few who are adamant about not moving, then what would happen if GUMMII finally arrives (in however much time that it will take)?

It seems to me to be a parent not wanting their child to leave the nest, per say. (if that makes sense)

In order to improve, a move would most likely be the necessary option.

Also, with a previous post stating "bringing it up every couple of months," it's only been once before, if I recall correctly, and that was back in July.

We are not trying to impose anything on anyone.

The purpose of this thread is to discuss, not to oppress and force unwillingly.

Feel free to enlighten me if I missed something.
>> No. 123695
File 135179819699.jpg - (34.15KB , 614x350 , anton.jpg )
123695
>>123693
The TG exists. It will continue to exist. Considering the expected lack of clopfic writers that actually look for help, one TG-like thread for them should be all that's needed. Ergo, no redundancy.

>We'd be linking them to a site where content that violates the site I work for's rules is hosted and is much more diffcult to avoid than on FiMFic
It is even easier to avoid since it is invisible. Gone. Non-existent. If they don't read the sticky, they won't know about the NSFW system, and if they don't know about how it's crammed into the settings bar (which I highly doubt many people fiddle with) then they aren't going to stumble over it. I can go to FimFic and find a clopfic on the Featured bar (which is very visible) more often than not (one of the stories on there right now is titled "Clop It", although it is apparently a satire). As such, your fears are groundless

Again, the TG exists. Applejinx has a review thread there right now and it isn't NSFW, despite him being a prolific clopfic writer. Besides, there are more reviewers that don't deal with clop than those that do, I believe (feel free to correct me on this, though).

>>123694
>Also, with a previous post stating "bringing it up every couple of months," it's only been once before, if I recall correctly, and that was back in July.
And, as I stated in the OP, there were some very good reasons for re-opening this topic as they both delivered on their promises and did so in a very timely manner, something which I cannot say is something often seen from this site's administration (this being purely personal opinion).
>> No. 123696
>>123695
You argue that the content is invisible, yet use the example of FiMFic having visible clop content, where the content is also invisible if not enabled.
>> No. 123697
File 135179827117.png - (426.86KB , 1200x1600 , 170190 - artist bamboodog luna minimalist.png )
123697
>>123693

The idea has been thrown around of an "NSFW Training Grounds," which would work something like this.

Imagine that every individual review thread is SFW. Those reviewers who also review NSFW work will link the "NSFWTG" in their op, saying: ask here if you want me to review a mature fic.

The link will not work for people who have NSFW disabled.

So, what would you think if a system like that was implemented? I have to say, the idea of a mature training grounds didn't make much sense to me at first, but hearing your objections made it seem a lot more sensible...
>> No. 123699
File 135179855170.png - (518.66KB , 1280x1024 , Untitled.png )
123699
>>123696
I made a profile, the material was visible by default.
I just logged out and searched "Romance Reports".
Asked me to confirm I was 18, said yes, opened the page. Not a problem. It was even easier than MLPchan's.
Ergo, you are wrong.
>> No. 123700
File 135179858768.png - (264.02KB , 296x365 , 7272 - creepy fluttershy zalgo.png )
123700
>>123696

The content -is- invisible though. NSFW material is only visible if you turn it on through the settings menu on the top right on the board. If that isn't selected, for all intents and purposes to the eye of someone who is viewing the board, NSFW threads don't exist. You can't even link someone who doesn't have NSFW turned onto a NSFW thread, it will produce an error.
>> No. 123701
>>123697
That seems reasonable... but you'll likely get people (like me) who review and don't like using the Training Grounds.

>>123699
You still had to go searching for the material and enable a setting to see it.

Ergo, you are wrong.
>> No. 123702
I am Split Infinitive and I aprove this move.
>> No. 123703
>>123700
That's part of the problem if review threads are going to be set up to accept clop as well. Fewer helpful resources will be available/visible by default.

If there's a NSFW Training Grounds, this issue would be pretty negligible, though.
>> No. 123704
File 135179874160.png - (428.56KB , 1280x1024 , Untitled.png )
123704
>>123701
And if i wanted to find NSFW on MLPchan, I'd have to search for it too, and then it wouldn't let me open it, unlike FimFiction. Ergo, it is superior in accordance to your standards.
Oh, and guess what?
>Picture
No search required.
Check and mate.

>>123703
That's the plan.
>> No. 123705
File 135179905691.png - (1.04MB , 1280x853 , a_fire_fades_by_assasinmonkey-d5gm0bk.png )
123705
>>123704
Apologies, Vimbert. I was a little overzealous in my delivery there.
>> No. 123709
File 135179977016.jpg - (94.63KB , 894x894 , 132622825980.jpg )
123709
>>123672
>Weren't they part of the IRC discussion?
>> No. 123710
I say we do it.
>> No. 123711
The reason why I suggested the mod write-off (and I know I was the first to suggest it) was in hope that one of them would fall in love with writing and just like that we'd have a dedicated mod.

As the one and only person here who posts on the other Ponychan boards I really don't want to move, mostly out of blind hatred for MLPchan—hatred which has only increased since the they started advertising on other sites. Though I guess if a move happened and I stayed behind, that would make me the owner of Ponychan's training grounds.
>> No. 123713
File 135180038307.jpg - (10.28KB , 352x252 , 132135411142.jpg )
123713
>>123709
Who were? Those for or against the anon mod, or the thread owners? A little clarification on what I'm supposed to be answering would be appreciated.

>>123711
Is there any reason for that beyond the fact that they advertise, which is a completely understandable part of marketing and building a userbase so as to introduce new and fresh ideas into the site?

>that would make me the owner of Ponychan's training grounds.
It sounds like you're just waiting to grab the scraps of what passes as power left over from the move. Keep in mind that if the majority moves, so will the stream of people to review. Being the king of a dead land is rather fruitless.
>> No. 123714
>>123644

Yes, this has many long term benefits, so I also don't mind the idea and support this move (if that means anything).

The system looks very nice, if with a few little hiccups that have been pledged to be worked on. (Like the lack of a thread search that should hopefully be fixed within a couple weeks or so).

>>123643

Where fic and those of its hardest-working reviewers go, so shall I follow them; as shall all those who respect and value that effort and advice. I don’t follow the threads, which are naught but lines of frigid code, I follow the chosen leaders and advisors of their communities who demonstrate that they are both capable and deserving of the title.

As long as everyone in authority can agree and properly indicate that this is what’s happening, and don't flip-flop when the decision is made, then we should have few, if any, major problems with the move.

That said we must also understand it might take longer than we hope. While this isn’t as dramatic as building from the ground up, and should not be treated as such, we are still making some major changes and that is oftentimes confusing and frightening to some degree. There might be some divisions for a time and a few derps here and there, as is the case with any change for a large group.

The old-guard will need to be somewhat patient with the newcomers (I’m looking at you, Sturm.), as will the new-blood with the old-timers (Still looking at you, Sturm.), as the ins and outs of a newer system are explored and tested. Some problems and mistakes must be expected, but we’ll push on because we’re stubborn that way and we’ll be darned if something like a move to a new location would fracture our community.

So the move should be done in a manner that is respectful, but firm; those with the greatest authority and weight of opinion must say "This is where I am going and if you do not wish to follow, then you do not have to. But I am not coming back here." And then hold true to it. If EQD is informed of the move, and redirects newcomers appropriately, then it shall only be a matter of time before the old is phased out for the new. Ponychan held its purpose, to give a place for our community to gather, but now it’s time for it to grow a little more and move beyond what it simply was to what it can be. An even better meeting place, with even more useful tools to help us make our fandom great.

Whatever else happens, the old and new alike should always work together for the betterment of this community however they can. As it has always been, and as it should continue to be.

So, to all who agree that the move should be made, both leaders and those who will follow their leaders, I ask that we pledge so right here. Let us cut through the games, and agree that, details aside, we have made a choice:

I am Writer’s Block, part-time writer and part-time reviewer for The Training Grounds. I have been a fan of the show for only a year or so, and a bearer of the above title for even less, but I still choose to support this move. When the move is made, I shall continue to work not only in the new TTG, but I shall also continue to do what I might for the community which I have chosen to be part of. Whether that is giving ideas in a Story Forge on the new site, debating points with my own reviewers, trying to assist a newcomer in understanding the rules and help them find their place in our community, or even just participating in some event of my choice and merely having some fun, this admittedly frustrating dunce shall follow where those who lead chose to go.

The leaders in this community (from old legends of TTG to a select few of rising stars that have branched into their own threads) have this small-timer’s vote; where the pillars of community stand, so shall this ash-pole attempt to help (even when Yakety Sax should ensue).

I am Writer’s Block. To those who ask me if we move, I vote Aye.

What say you?
>> No. 123715
File 135180088224.png - (731.87KB , 1600x2000 , 132624734330.png )
123715
>>123713
The thread owners in particular.
Especially since the above post + that anon getting a bit pissy kind of implies this is a done decided deal.

I know y'all have said that you dont want to rush things (and i agree, whatever people actually decide to do), but it seems like that's what's happening is all.
>> No. 123716
>>123715
By above post i meant: >>123655
>> No. 123717
>>123713
Typically one's hatred for something increases when they hear about it over and over. That's why MLD is hated by so many.

It seems to me that if I keep /fic/'s TTG alive then Vimbert will still send writers here instead of MLPchan. But this is just my assumption; I don't want to put words in his mouth.
>> No. 123718
>>123709
The answer is no, most of them were not privy to the discussion. Let's see what happens when they get online and see what was presumed for them, though.

>>123713
Does he sound like he's interested in power? I could just as easily say you're only interested in converting people as an attempt to salvage the efforts of your involvement in what is already a dead land. You're being a little overzealous, Sturm.
>> No. 123719
>>123718
Hi, can you tell me what discussion people weren't privy of?
>> No. 123720
File 135180202254.jpg - (316.35KB , 1295x575 , Ego-anton-ego-14471062-1295-575.jpg )
123720
>>123717
This is the second time in three months. If you're seeing ads, get an ad-blocker. It is not as if this is on everyone's tongues all day.

Vimbert is a single pre-reader. His fears has already been more-than adequately dispelled. The others have expressed no such problem. You clearly don't understand the system at play here. Besides, even if he did, you would be a lone knight of grammar against the unedited hordes and, when you can't solve their problems because you're overwhelmed, they'll look for a more capable site.

>>123715
Their threads will not be moved without their permission. Even if they were it's not as if there's any way to get people to actually man them. If people come, they will come. That's all there is to it. The only things made so far are the generals, which belong to no one in particular and have useful purposes no matter where they're planted.

>>123718
The IRC discussion was not a private affair. I informed many people and freely posted links to it in the document. This was not some closed-off affair. Get your facts straight. Things progressed much faster than I anticipated and I can hardly be blamed for an unprecedented speed. As I have already stated several times, I fully intend to leave this discussion going for some time.

>>123719
The discussion which had been publicly announced and the results thereof posted in the thread, also available to the public at large. Plainly, he doesn't know what he's talking about. Frankly, his presence is neither helpful nor wanted at this point and I'm sorely tempted to report him for the constant drama-mongering and baited replies.
>> No. 123721
File 135180201652.jpg - (168.61KB , 700x554 , 3349__princess-celestia_artist-asieybarbie.jpg )
123721
>>123719

We have a lot of discussions on the #fic IRC channel. They aren't private or behind closed doors, anyone can come into the IRC and talk. (But few do.) Anon is likely referring to today's installment of the ongoing discussion about this potential /fic/ move, of which the logs can be found at the bottom of this post >>123676

This thread is an effort to move the ongoing discussion out of the IRC and into a place where more users will see it. The appearance of "this is already done and decided" is simply an illusion resulting from the fact that discussions in the IRC have tended to come down pretty strongly in favor of moving, and we haven't heard much well-argued dissent, since... a lot of people don't come into the IRC.
>> No. 123724
>>123720
You haven't addressed my point about people not being able to see some of the review threads when they come looking for help.
>> No. 123725
File 135180243580.png - (81.74KB , 701x722 , ACassiuspony.png )
123725
Regarding EqD involvement in moving:

It is the opinion of the pre-readers that a MLPChan move will only be considered if and only if MLPChan can demonstrably show superior author assistance to Ponychan and effectively enforce its stated NSFW policy.

M↔(S•N)
>> No. 123726
File 135180260711.jpg - (48.79KB , 853x362 , 430325-vlcsnap_00029.jpg )
123726
>>123724
There will only be one NSFW review thread. The vast majority will be visible. This has been answered several times already.

>>123725
In other words, !!Spike mod does his job and if there's a majority of reviewers moving, the site is golden.
>> No. 123727
File 135180252115.jpg - (96.23KB , 943x943 , 130281015175.jpg )
123727
>>123725
>> No. 123728
>>123720
Then it would be my fault for checking the board at noon instead of 9 AM, and missing an impromptu early-morning IRC discussion, the outcome of which impacts the future of everyone the board? My apologies. From this day onward, I will be sure to check for announcements 8 times daily, around the clock, so I don't miss any far-reaching decisions which are made offsite after mere hours of discussion through a medium on which only a small fraction of the board participates.
>> No. 123730
File 135180297491.jpg - (23.04KB , 640x362 , kaminomi_2.jpg )
123730
>>123728

Your condescending act is really pathetic. Either contribute something of value, or go away.
>> No. 123731
File 135180344122.jpg - (12.55KB , 210x240 , char_38740.jpg )
123731
>>123728
Talking logic and reason to you evidently does no good, so consider yourself ignored.
>> No. 123732
File 135180361499.jpg - (202.57KB , 1920x800 , 19.jpg )
123732
Ahh, Ponychan X. Your "Hide Posts" function is finally of great use.
>> No. 123733
File 135180351883.png - (48.68KB , 276x275 , SI-WTF.png )
123733
>>123720
'kay

>>123730
Condescension aside, he has a point.


>>123732
...Wow.
>> No. 123734
File 135180371179.jpg - (148.20KB , 1920x800 , 15.jpg )
123734
>>123733
>Condescension aside, he has a point.
No, he doesn't. The decision isn't made. His claims are false and his attacks unsubstantiated. I would kindly request he be removed from this debate entirely since he has provided nothing of worth to the conversation.
>> No. 123735
File 135180401414.png - (543.66KB , 700x999 , 4529__princess-celestia_sad_moon_crying_tears_artist-cresento.png )
123735
>>123733

His point is misguided. The "discussion" is now, here. Suggesting that it's already taken place behind closed doors, where a certain faction of elites decided the future of /fic/, is just misleading.

If Anon has any points, any real points, to make against the move, this is the place for him to air them. Complaining that we've excluded him or anyone from participating is ridiculous. If anything, he's excluding himself from the debate by his aggressive manner.
>> No. 123736
File 135180402966.png - (189.51KB , 514x347 , 134858959265.png )
123736
>>123718

This was reported for drama mongering? Seriously?

Sturm, you have made no attempt in the past to hide your very clear preference for MLPchan and have advertised for the site more than anyone else on Ponychan. If the /fic/ community feels that its interests are better served on MLPchan, I fully support that. As I have stated many times before in the past, we value that people now have options since forcing the whole brony imageboard community under the banner of Ponychan is counterproductive and leads to resentment. Not everyone is looking for the same environment and it would be silly to try to force that on people. However, it is evident based on your extensive history of trying to convince people to leave Ponychan that you are pretty severely biased in this respect and I would question a discussion that is lead by someone with clear intentions for moving rather than someone who wants to put everything on the table and actually determine which site would be better for /fic/.

Just my two cents. I fully respect and support an open discussion and you have done a decent job at maintaining neutrality, but your history would suggest that you already know exactly where you want this conversation to go and will be campaigning for a desired end. The fact that you have presented yourself in this thread as having made this decision based on careful consideration of evidence when you had a very clear and established bias from the outset I find, frankly, dishonest.

As I said before, if the /fic/ community feels that it will be better served on MLPchan, there are no hard feelings and we all hope that it works out for you. If you want to stay and have suggestions for making this site and board a better environment, feel free to contact the mods anytime or pop over to /meta/. Either way, I hope that /fic/ can flourish and produce great writing. I just want the decisions regarding the future of this board to be made with all of the information on the table rather than the discussion being dominated by someone who has been trying to funnel people away from this site for a long time.
>> No. 123737
File 135180450414.png - (62.50KB , 197x290 , 130051360547.png )
123737
>>123736

Um, this is only what I've observed and all, and I've tried to stay quiet about the dude, but....

I'm pretty sure the majority of the thread is under the impression that this is still being discussed... In fact, I've seen it said time and time again. There was a misconception in the earlier parts of the thread, but at this point, everyone is sort of making good points except that anon, who is continuously pushing the idea that some sort of /fic/ elite has doled out a decision already. I mean, I overlooked the fact that earlier he was accusing one of our mods of some sort of behind the scenes puppetry (which is entirely wrong, as I'd be the first person to tell people if that was actually happening)

This discussion isn't bad, it's just that occasional vitriol keeps popping up, and he certainly seems a source of it.
>> No. 123738
File 135180535295.jpg - (13.69KB , 600x254 , 430313-vlcsnap_00012_super.jpg )
123738
>>123736
All the information is on the table. He is demanding something which has already been given several times over and been nothing but condescending whilst doing so.

I have employed the help of three neutral entities. Seattle Lite was initially against the move, in fact, and the Samurai is purely neutral in every sense of the word. I made quite sure to bring the facts and only the facts to the table and it would be greatly appreciated if you acknowledged that.

And there is careful consideration. I have observed the happenings of both chans and I can safely say, with as little subjectiveness as possible, that the administration at MLPchan is more effective at maintaining its userbase and filling its wants and needs. On the objective side of things, their site is technically superior in most regards to Ponychan, especially when it comes to the capabilities that /fic/ users will make use of.

Every time I've expressed dissension, did I not provide several reasons why my stated alternative was better? The moderator team never offered any reasons why my point was inferior, only that it wasn't wanted. I harbour such discontent because I have seen the face of stagnation on /meta/, and it has yet to provide any reason why it won't remain that way. The to-do list was a nice step but it's obvious the thing is stuck in neutral after creeping forward a few feet. It's been half a month since there was any official moderator reply on the items proposed in it and it's anyone's guess as to how long it's been since something was actually completed, not that any of the completed ones went beyond simple theme additions (which had been promised months before) or a sticky that merely needed to be copy/pasted. Where are the actual upgrades? The image-expander? PonyUP Z was doing that a year before, and it did (and still does) it better to boot. Then Ponychan X did it. Then MLPchan did it. He was just playing catch-up.

Oh, and all of that in the above paragraph? It never appeared once in the document, despite being a rather good reason to point to and say "This is why MLPchan's administration is superior". That didn't even enter the equation. My personal biases have absolutely, positively, no bearing since they aren't being impressed upon the reader.

So, as you can see, I've spent an awfully long time coming up with some rather solid reasons for my distaste and provided more why they don't matter in this discussion. Please, feel free to prove me wrong.
>> No. 123739
Assuming the NSFW filtering is properly implemented (and it could probably be improved if need be with mod correspondence), moving to mlpchan would strictly be an upgrade since it has more utilities than ponychan.
>> No. 123740
>>123730
I will do both in succession. I am against the move, simply based on the way it was presented under the facade of a community decision, while in reality it was made based on a discussion with no forewarning, headed by someone with personal gripes with members of this site's staff, with few people present at an inconvenient time of day, in an attempt to prematurely purvey an illusory consensus. I do not like the way this is being handled, at all, and it this is the way things are going to be done, I cannot support it. The only thing more insulting than being ignored is being told your input matters and still being ignored, or worse, not knowing when to be present and finding out after the fact. In lieu of everything else, at least I know my input regarding this site has not been ignored.

I hope that stands on its own and is straightforward enough to understand, and I will no longer inconvenience you with my dissenting presence.

>>123734
See:
>>123620
>8:58 am
>Announcement of discussion
>>123655
>11:11 am
>Okay, that's enough discussion, everybody move now
I don't know why he thought that was a good idea, and were the tables turned, I think you would be one of the first to point out how absurd it is.
>> No. 123741
>>123738
>All the information is on the table.
If this were true, then under "cons" in the doc it should say "EqD PRs will not refer writers to MLPchan"

Question though: How many active reviewers on this site actually want this move to happen. I know I asked this in the IRC, but I want people to speak for themselves on this.
>> No. 123742
>>123740
My only real issue is why you don't have a name because
I can't help think you are someone else who isn't from /fic/ from the way you write...

Apart from that, there is this post by the same poster: >>123690

And the fact the objections currently are: one guy who doesn't belong here, two(?) different anons who insists they belong to /fic/ but they need to keep hidden for... reasons, and the mods of the website.

You might then see why you are quickly making everyone else exasperated, like a bad repeat of the times reviewers were called Nazis.
>> No. 123743
File 135180686459.gif - (210.33KB , 500x500 , mlfw7743-tumblr_m9gyafulof1r4mi49o2_500[1].gif )
123743
Thread is moving faster than I can follow at this particular moment, so I'm probably missing points.

First, obligatory anon hatred. To the multiple anons in thread, if we're discussing something as important as potentially fracturing the community, could you please not post anon, so we can put your words in context? I'm having great difficulty taking any anon post seriously here. No obligation to listen to me, but I would appreciate it. Thank you.

Second, obligatory "not this shit again."

Now yes. Biggest risk IMO is fragmenting the board. Moving to Gummii "Someday" also has the risk of fragmenting the community, but that's a bad argument: two risky moves are worse than one risky move. MLPchan does have some superior features, but IMHO the benefits don't outweigh the risks at this point, whereas a hypothetical move to Gummii "Someday", either from Ponychan or MLPchan, I see as worthwhile. That said, I only see one non-anon (Vimbert) who has explicitly opposed the move, with a few in favor and a bunch undecided. But it's still very early in this round of the discussions, so take "only one dissenter" with a grain of salt.

!!Spike, take a letter see my above point about hating anons. What harm is there in divulging your identity? I completely fail to understand. See also >>123667 The simple act of being so secretive is itself creating stupidly pointless drama, and making an already-difficult decision more difficult. Stahp.

I'm torn on NSFW. I understand Vimbert's qualms regarding EQD, as well as Ion's counterpoints about FimFiction. While I dislike clop, I am actually in favor of allowing a /fic/ that reviews it with judicious use of tags and filters. That said, I'm still slightly leaning with Vimbert on the EQD-recommendation issue. Call it namby-pamby all you want, but EQD is intended (my personal understanding) to keep itself clean due to being one of the higher visible-to-outsiders sites. i.e. If smut goes on the EQD frontpage, then Fox News points to that and says "all bronies are sickos." So I can understand hesitation in EQD endorsing (by way of TTG) a site that has an "enable mature" button. All that said, EQD already essentially endorses FimFiction by virtue of 99% of story posts nowadays linking directly to FimFic, and as discussed FimFic already has an "enable mature" button. So there's a sound argument on paper for EQD to endorse neither MLPchan nor FimFic nor any other "enable mature" site, but in practice an EQD-MLPchan/fic/ relationship doesn't seem any worse than the existing EQD-FimFic relationship.

No, there's not enough of us to support two /fic/ communities. Someday maybe. Not now. Taking a "fine, I'll stay and you go" approach is a recipe for failure. We'd end up with Ponychan having the same volume of incoming stories with only a fraction of the remaining reviewers, while meanwhile MLPchan would only do round-table discussion reviews for other MLPchan regulars: an inferior situation for everyone who stays, everyone who goes, and everyone rejected by EQD. That is why it's important that the decision to move or stay be as atomic as possible.
>> No. 123745
File 135180688998.png - (198.71KB , 374x480 , Lyra131539673140.png )
123745
>That said, I only see one non-anon (Vimbert) who has explicitly opposed the move,
>mfw
>> No. 123746
File 135180708796.png - (1.70MB , 1050x1350 , 132960 - artist ponykillerx celestia.png )
123746
Vimbert, being a pre-reader, is absorbed within the opinion expressed under Cassius' post: >>123725

From what I understand, the pre-readers argued until they reached consensus on this statement.
>> No. 123747
>>123743
Could you explain to me how hiding away Spike is any different than, say, hiding away prereaders? Now, I like prereaders being hidden, because they can't be bothered by every annoying guy who thinks they might have a grudge against them, so this whole "reveal thyself, for my curiosity demands it" seems rather petty.
>> No. 123748
File 135180749739.jpg - (31.54KB , 353x270 , 36i031.jpg )
123748
As someone (relatively) new to the site, I go wherever the reviewers go. If the reviewers decide to go, I go. If they decide to stay, I stay. I think that goes for most average joes who come here for help, and who constitute the majority of the traffic.

I don't have enough experience with MLPchan to know what's best, so... short version: pic.
>> No. 123749
File 135180751212.gif - (210.33KB , 500x500 , mlfw7743-tumblr_m9gyafulof1r4mi49o2_500[1].gif )
123749
>>123742
Apologies for reusing the same image, but anons calling out anons? FFS. Plz to be a tripfoal.

>>123745
;_; I said the thread was moving fast! Two non-anon dissenters.
>> No. 123751
>>123747
>saging because veering way offtopic
I'm against anon prereaders too. Do you think my real name is Pav? It's just a handle. I don't care if a PR posts as a "real handle" like Seattle or a "fake handle" like 63.546. I just dislike having to shout at some amorphous blob; I see it as nothing but disrespect on the part of the anon.

And before you ask why !!Spike is an insufficient handle for my needs, it would have been sufficient. But then multiple people had to go around with this childish "oh he's actually a /fic/ regular but NAUT TELING HOO!" and now it's causing nothing but butthurt. In favor of a reveal: end the stupid drama. Opposed to reveal: still awaiting sufficient argument.
>> No. 123752
>>123751
The only one I see referring to it is you at this point. Which means you are causing the drama and making a arbitrary distinction between the two. If !!Spike prefers to remain anonymous because he feels more comfortable that way, there is no good argument to be made as long as you can't prove he is going around, using his mod powers to get very close to demolishing the place, and then manipulating people while not.

Again, it's petty.
>> No. 123753
>>123748
If it isn't a strong feeling, wouldn't that exclamation mark be unfitting?

>>123740
This is one person. He does not represent the board, just as you do not represent the dissenting opinion. Stop. Being. This. Way. You know better or, at the very least, I sincerely hope you do.
Also, refer to: >>123742

>>123741
Hey, person not keeping with the times. Refer to >>123725
So yeah, that's wrong.

>>123743
As I've said, if this isn't a large majority it will not be undertaken.

> but EQD is intended (my personal understanding) to keep itself clean due to being one of the higher visible-to-outsiders sites.
Explain the saucy images and hosting of Fallout: Equestria, then, during which a clop fic was linked to in the EqD post. Also explain how and why they link to FimFiction when I've demonstrably proved that finding mature subject matter is mere seconds away and is easier to do than on MLPchan?

>>123751
Those in favour of the move are fine with !!Spike and recourse has been clearly given in case that opinion changes. Complaining about !!Spike's anonymity is worthless and bears no impact on whether or not /fic/ moves.



Anyways, work beckons. Do try to keep things civil while I'm gone. I'm sure there will be plenty of time for everyone else that wishes to voice their opinion to do so, as there will be tomorrow, and the day after, and the day after, because discussions are still open and it would be appreciated if certain individuals would recognize this simple fact. In fact, it would be greatly appreciated if all those involved actually bothered to read the thread as this entire debacle is so far due to Person A clearly ignoring/misconstruing/willfully twisting Person B's post
Thank you.
>> No. 123754
>>123751

Corollary to this post:

The pre-readers only represent Equestria Daily. They do not claim to represent /fic/. One of the proposed points of the move is that the dedicated moderator is from /fic/ and will protect our collective interests. However, without knowing who the person in question is, there is no guarantee to that statement, ergo the secrecy is suspect.
>> No. 123756
>>123753
I have very strong feelings about having no strong feelings!
>> No. 123757
File 135180840222.png - (244.32KB , 670x414 , 132626488165.png )
123757
>>123751

I've heard enough of this stuff in this thread that I'm probably going to ask him about how he feels about being named when I get the chance. It's my understanding that it was the idea of other /fic/ people for him to go anon in the first place, and I personally don't really see how it affects anyone (ponychan mods went anon for ages), but I've seen enough complaining about it that I might as well inquire.
>> No. 123759
File 135180877588.png - (165.11KB , 350x376 , winx-club-bloom-122.png )
123759
>>123682
It's my understanding that porn is banned. That is, porn as defined as being something entirely designed to get your rocks off. At the very least, it's going to be admonished not for the colour of its skin but for the content of its character. Shit stories will still get shit on regardless of the presence of horsecocks. Maybe we can actually improve the standards in clopfics a little, even. I know, I'm naive.

>>123692
The Gummii project may or may not be hosted on MLPchan, but to say it is a certainty either way is incorrect.

>>123738
>I made quite sure to bring the facts and only the facts to the table and it would be greatly appreciated if you acknowledged that.
You've carefully (intentionally or not) omitted the main concern I raised about this move. The culture of the site is different.

While their /fic/ board there is currently empty, we will still have our community influenced by their culture. People from other boards there will check the place out, much like how I came here from lurking /pony/.

This is an issue to me because MLPchan is a little less, well, shall we say, serious, about things. There's more shitposters, and nobody wants that leaking into /fic/.

Specifically, there was a post there (now deleted, after I brought it up, which is kind of... well, annoying, since it illustrates the problem quite well) that was the OP dumping two stories that he self-admitted were shit, then said "I don't know how to write, and I don't want to learn how to write." Secondly, the two prompts that were submitted for the *chan Staff Write-off event "CMC Clopfic" and "Clopfic centered around Discord" were submitted by a user referred to the site from MLPchan.

By moving, we're going to a culture that's less like the culture that this board was built in, and I think that's the biggest thing for people to consider in such a choice. It's difficult to codify into enforceable rules (and I don't like having to resort to rules either) that if you aren't here to (attempt to) contribute positively to the board, you can fuck off. Mainly because then you have the issue of defining exactly what that means, since it's more of a "You know it when you see it" kind of thing.

At the end of the day, we moderate this place not with typical moderation, but by it not being a good enough place for trolls and shitposters to hang around or be attracted to. That's why the solution of "Well, we'll just ban the shitposters" doesn't work.

There is something to be said for the technical differences of the sites, of course. I have a lot of issues with MLPchan's layout, but nothing that can't be fixed in the stylesheet. And given that Macil and I are on pretty good terms, getting changes done to the site's code should be pretty easy. I haven't actually looked, but I'm pretty sure I have read access to most of the site's code as well.

All said, I go where /fic/ goes.
>> No. 123760
File 135180903336.jpg - (58.29KB , 1000x840 , What.jpg )
123760
>>123734
>>123735
This post: >>123655
Implied that most of the discussion was done since "No serious objections were raised." and the only thing left to do was lock the door on the way out.
The discussion did start at a weird time for most people, and this thread is presenting the impression that the decision is mostly finalized in favor of going when only 11-ish people have said in here that they either dont care or want to move.
Yes, i get that you and others have said the decision hasn't been reached yet, but it's just the impression I(And others did too, apparently) got.
That's what i meant by 'he has a point', apologies for the confusion.

Sorry for late reply, had family drama.
>> No. 123761
Does anyone have any statistics? How many posts per week / views per week etc. the board actually gets?

I see lots of stuff about "fracturing the community"
but I also see the exact same small number of people posting. Like, ever.

I don't think this "community" is everything you seem to think it is.

Anyway - I don't care. Move. Do whatever.

I'd kind of like to see what happens anyway. Fresh starts. Lots of potential.
>> No. 123764
>>123752
Yes, only me. And >>123645 and >>123667 and >>123754 and originally >>123625 til he changed his mind Call me petty all you like, but please don't make dismissive attacks like "only you" which are trivial to disprove. And for the record, !!Spike's anonymity is not a deal-breaker for me; I'm simply opposed to it.

>>123753
Regarding FimFic, I already made your argument for you. And the FOE clop chapter has always received a "we wouldn't do it again but it's impossible to edit a blogpost" wishywashy answer. Again, theory versus reality.
>> No. 123765
About four months ago, a person posted a link in the IRC to MLPchan that conspicuously had "mod.php" appended to the domain name, so !!Spike's anonymity is already kind of compromised. For the sake of fairness to those who don't have an IRC client open all day, I think it may as well be revealed who he is.

To be honest, though, I don't think there's any need for a dedicated /fic/ mod anyway. It's more important that the entire mod team know how to deal with reports in /fic/, because no one dedicated mod will be on all day to sort issues out when needed.
>> No. 123766
I have created a poll so we can have an organized list of those who wish to move, wish to stay, or are neutral.

Poll: http://derpy.me/RTxcp

Results: http://derpy.me/ZvZyh
>> No. 123781
File 135181546862.jpg - (5.70KB , 225x225 , derpy again.jpg )
123781
>>123766
I sorta derped and put my actual trip code password in that slot so would it be terribly inconvenient to have that fixed?
>> No. 123782
>>123766
There should be an option that says "I do not actively support the move but will follow." The "neutrals" I recorded during my initial surveying via the IRC (which is public) all said that they would move if that was the final decision. I can't reply to the rest since time runs short , but it's nice to see things settling down.
>> No. 123783
>>123782
>I do not actively support the move but will follow
That's what neutral means.
>> No. 123784
File 135181646194.png - (457.13KB , 632x675 , aj62.png )
123784
I'm not really a /fic/ regular, so feel free to ignore me, but I already have two imageboards that I frequent and adding another is not in my future plans. So while I think that anyone totally new wouldn't mind going straight to MLPchan, you guys are most likely going to lose some semi-regulars if you swap.

Regarding anon moderator: Yes, please. In ten or so years of being a forum-goer/imageboard user, I have never seen a situation where a moderator whose identity is known to the community hasn't resulted in power-tripping, accusations of bias, and attention-horseing.
>> No. 123789
>>123740

The problem with your logic is you forget we are discussing this over the internet. Therefore, we have no idea whether you're in Australia or right next door to the White House at this moment of time. If we tried to make sure everyone was involved all at once, that would logistically be impossible. When I’m awake, you could be asleep, or vice versa. We cannot track every single member of the board at any given moment.

So, why should the whole board spend days or weeks on merely deciding what we type into the address bar? Is it really that unfair to all of us, or just to you in particular because you could not get to voice an opinion before something happened?

Decisions might well be made when some of us are not here, but if all you’re complaining about is the inability for all of us to remain awake and glued to a screen for over 24 hours so that everyone might argue with everybody so we can hear you in particular, then that is both logically unsound and unfair to us.

I personally have very little say in whether or not it changes. I have no actual authority here because I have no thread of my own, I am barely making my mark on the fan-fiction circuit, and I am otherwise just one of the many faceless authors who populate the internet, much like yourself I assume.

While I might have opinions, and shall state them when and if I can, I must accept that I’m but a small part of a much larger animal. I’m grateful we get to debate these points, and we should always try to hear both sides, but I must accept that not every voice can be heard and that some things might change without my immediate consent. For example, I don’t remember approving all these other threads here on Ponychan, us arguing long into the nights about whether or not they have merit, but I can’t and won’t complain about them because that’s the choice of the creator in question and the approval of the fandom. If I had authority, I might be able to lean folks in one way or another if I really cared, but I don’t in either regard. So, I must accept my role for the moment. I will make my arguments, but I will only convince those who agree with me.

While members like Sturm are not the only factor in whether the whole fandom will, or will not, move to the new site, we should admit they do have a big say in it because they can choose themselves whether to move there or not. Neither you nor I can make any of them stay here. Whether you decide to follow them is a matter of your choice. I, for one, would, but you do not have to and no one will force you to. If you or others want to try and keep this place running, more power to you and I would wish you the best of luck, but understand that some people will choose to not stay.

The decision here isn’t going to make Ponychan spontaneously combust because what’s really being argued here is whether or not some reviewers should leave and try someplace new, and what they believe is better. How much help they will have in this experiment is what’s now being determined. It isn’t the utter destruction of the fandom, so can we please stop throwing words like “power” around, along with all these accusations of attempts to take some form of control?

When is someone going to call “Hitler” and just get it over with? It’s like we’re assuming all reviewers or pre-readers have nothing better to do than twirl mustaches and cackle while they polish their palms.

They review, that’s really all they do, and if they choose to review someplace else, people who want to hear their reviews will follow them. People who want to hear others reviews will stay here, so why is this such a problem? If it doesn’t work, we come back and the board has its old reviewers again. If it does work, you have a brand new playground you could come to, or an old playground you can decide to do whatever the hell you want with. Make it NSFW only, make it a dozen variations on review threads, make it a discussion board where people nitpick on animation and plot errors, it doesn’t matter.

People will all get to choose anyways because the sites will both still be there. They’ll just choose by staying or going somewhere else.

***

Before you argue that it took three hours for people to make a decision, let me ask: Why should it take more then three hours for someone to decide whether or not they should go?

If people capable of setting up the site are setting it up, why should we spend five weeks arguing about it? They are providing us a service by helping to create an experiment in new forms of this very board. They aren’t hacking into the servers at Ponychan and making them explode so that MLP might conquer the world, they are just giving us a way to test a new and hopefully improved method of helping other people. Why is everyone so eager to call shenanigans about it?

***

If it’s matters of actual concern, and not just whether or not some reviewers will leave here to go there, then they can be dealt with calmly and rationally. Like the freaking adults most of us are.

Whether or not the NSFW filter works:

This tool will determine whether or not such content can be controlled appropriately. By having the filter, we choose to accept that this fandom has its black sheep, which we should because it does and pretending otherwise is ultimately foolish.

Ponychan isn’t actively getting rid of them from the internet in glorious crusade, we’re just making them find someplace else to do it. Admirable in some respects, but they sometimes still clutter our boards with barely restrained attempts to squeak past censors. Having a separate area exclusively for them means that they can have access to good reviewers somewhere and get a safe place to put something they feel might be just that hair too far overboard for general consumption. They can then see whether it is or not before bringing it to the much stricter boards for more general reviews. Why should they have to email it? We don’t discourage them by this, they either just write really poorly and spread misconceptions that we are a bunch of creepy, nattering imbeciles that live in basements or they try desperately to find willing reviewers, maybe by making “mistakes” here for all we know, so they can get their name out.

In regards to the mod:

He’s like any other person in this community. Fallible, but still there, and we either trust him or we don’t to some extent. Why do we trust any of our own mods? Mostly because they’ve demonstrated they care about the community and attempt to be reasonable, yet firm. So why should we deny him the chance to prove himself? If one of our mods was in charge of it, would we be making such a fuss?

If we expect him to do all the work though, that’s irresponsible and unfair. Some of our mods may choose to join him, or some other people may choose to become mods at the new site, but if we go into this expecting him to walk on water and heal all our problems, then we’re setting ourselves up for failure. He’ll do what he can, but he’ll need help if this project is to work.

Which is what this is ultimately asking for, help. The site doesn’t need arguments to run, it needs people who will go in and make it work. It won’t run itself, as this place doesn’t run itself.

Roger made a culture comment:

>>123759

Yes, the culture’s different because we aren’t there and our culture isn’t established there. If we’re going to say that their culture is different as a reason for not going, then we might as well give up right now. Because, unless we actually go there and start working there, it isn’t going to change anytime soon.

That’s like holding red dye and complaining the glass of water on the table isn’t changing color. We need to go there and do something if the culture is to change. They’re trying very hard to make it, but they’re not us. In order to stand out to the community, they have to try and make a name for themselves. We can help them grow and we can both benefit. Them from our experience and us from fresh faces and ideas. Don’t deny them that because we’re nervous about a few bad eggs. We had them here too at some point.

Sturm and Figments:

>>123689

You both agree that you don’t want to fracture the fanbase and wish to keep its unity alive at all costs. I answer that we are already divided and that dropping this issue last time has obviously not helped. All you said was “We don’t really care about this project right now”.

If you believe in what you say in that this site is superior and that it’ll work better for all involved, then stop dancing around the bush. Expecting everyone to immediately hop on board is unrealistic and arguing the matter nonstop is counterproductive. Make your points and stop trying to convince everyone. Instead, convince the right people. Those who can help your site, and those who will help your site, are the ones that matter right now. Those who respect your opinions and trust your judgment will follow you. Those who do not will stay or leave entirely.

The instant you proposed an idea, you were guaranteed to cause arguments and that you’d expect everyone to agree is baffling to me. There’s no real middle ground here, and shame on you both for assuming there is. Dropping this won’t make the issue go away and won’t change people’s minds to the project. You’ll likely try again, maybe a year from now, and this same argument is going to rip out the stitches to ultimate pointlessness once more.

It failed last time because people wouldn’t do anything; because the people who have the threads, or work in the reviews, didn’t make that choice to go there because they were waiting to see who would go and really start something. I’ll give you whatever help I can, because you convinced me, but I personally don’t have the ability or clout to move a whole site. You two and all the other big reviewers here do. I can try to help where I can, but the main reviewers are ultimately the last say in what they personally will do and how they personally will choose to act.

Close your threads and leave to work there instead if this means so much to you. Start in that new TTG and let that be the shining beacon that shows that one thread can be made here. Have someone put something in the Ponychan that the new site is open, and also put something in the new site that shows the old site, and let people decide for themselves which one suits their tastes.

***

So, answer me. Is this project really worth it to you? Do you believe this is superior and are you willing to risk anything at all on that belief? Because it’s going to be work if you do; maybe not as hard as making Ponychan was, true, but it’ll still be work. You’ll have to fight for the dream, because everyone has an opinion and not all relationships are meant to last.

But, if you’re waiting for that anon to agree with you, you might as well bludgeon yourself unconscious with your monitor right now. Don’t change his mind, change Roger’s mind. Change Bleeding Rain’s mind. Change Cassius’ mind. Change anyone-who-will-actually-help-you’s mind.

The anons will always complain, but unless they want to do something to help out, ignore them.
>> No. 123790
>>123766

I have serious doubts that the majority of /fic/ is going to see this link.
>> No. 123791
>>123790
I also posted it in a comment in the doc linked in the op.
>> No. 123792
>About the importance of the NSFW filter.
Isn't that what FiMchan is for?
>> No. 123793
File 135181974519.jpg - (97.70KB , 900x506 , god-of-conquest-mode.jpg )
123793
>>123789

>You two big reviewers [...]

... I'm actually popular? Never thought that'd happen, but okay.

Anyway, you have a valid point. If it seems at all like I'm trying to push people into the "let's move /fic/" bandwagon, just know that it's not my intention.

My reasons for moving are grounded in a combination of the opinions of people who have already spoken. If you venture into the IRC, you would know that the trustworthiness of my opinions is a humongous variable, because they're scattered and diluted and I rarely, if ever, make much sense.

So, I'm backing up Ion-Sturm's opinion on the move, and the opinions of those in favor.

I don't want to see the community splintered, and if that means not going, well I guess that's what it ends up being.

However, I would like to point on the possible outcome if we were to stay, with this "mess," if you can call it that, lying around on our subconscious'.

With GUMMII "a long ways off from being even remotely ready," who's to say that when the day comes that GUMMII is ready, that people will act the same way they do here at this very moment?

That's all I have to say on the matter. Feel free to combat me on my opinion, or that of anyone else, but insofar it remains firm.

P.S.: I always knew people would fight over this. It's a touchy topic, and I believe some people are just giving flawed reasons as to why we should stay in an attempt to muddle their real opinions.

If that's at all true, that is.
>> No. 123794
File 135181981625.jpg - (27.32KB , 704x400 , Keima 1.jpg )
123794
>>123793

>*Who's to say that people won't act the same way they are at this very moment?

Dammit, I want that editing feature
>> No. 123795
Do you know how difficult a "move" is? How many successful instances of one internet culture uprooting itself and settling down somewhere else can you name?

The only reason the Kotaku->Polygon move was as successful as it was (and it wasn't a complete victory) was because absolutely every commenter hated Kinja with a fiery passion.

Unless you have a STRONG motivator that everyone agrees on (which I don't see being the case right now), a full transplant is nigh-impossible.
>> No. 123798
MLPchan has always seemed better, to me. Their writeoff was fun, at least, if filled with issues. But it all comes down to the community. I'm distinctly in the "I have no strong opinions but will move with the move" category.

That said, what entices me most about MLPchan is the idea of NSFW content. I'd love to actually get feedback on my clopfics from people who want to improve them! Granted, I do not yet understand exactly what is and is not permissible, so that excitement is perhaps mitigated somewhat.

Still, while the pros outweigh the cons as listed in that document, I absolutely will not support a move to mlpchan (not that I can really stop it myself) until they get that thread watch module in. I am completely incapable of using imageboards without it. ETAs be hanged.
>> No. 123799
>>123790
One would assume that most /fic/ regulars read threads that are on /fic/.

I don't know why anybody is anon posting in a thread that is entirely about the community. Without a name and measurable contribution to this board to go with it, your opinion is meaningless.

>>123789
I suppose the funny thing is that the main reason I'm not for the change is because of the people who are spearheading it.
>> No. 123800
>>123799

Since I'm anon, that makes my concerns invalid? Okay, that's fair.

>Without a name and measurable contribution to this board to go with it, your opinion is meaningless.

This is what's wrong with /fic/.
>> No. 123801
File 135182472639.png - (274.82KB , 702x700 , 48835__.png )
123801
>>123800

Wait a sec

Are u trying 2 rustle my jimmies
>> No. 123802
File 135182486301.png - (73.81KB , 243x756 , lyra_heartstrings_by_skatergirl8888-d4w8i75.png )
123802
>>123801

He's trying to rumble your johnnies, Nietzsche
>> No. 123803
File 135182502340.png - (110.99KB , 368x360 , 135111398646.png )
123803
>>123802

as long as he doesn't ruffle my jerries we're good
>> No. 123805
File 135182607077.png - (1.61MB , 1438x1084 , ___.png )
123805
>>123793
Heh, the more I hear about Project GUMMII, the more it sounds like some ultimate weapon of doom.
>> No. 123806
File 135182653807.png - (1.18MB , 1280x720 , keima-glasses-prop.png )
123806
>>123805

Little do you know that GUMMII is actually a giant space laser poised and ready to obliterate the Eiffel Tower. THAT IS ITS ONLY FUNCTION.
>> No. 123807
>>123800
>Since I'm anon, that makes my concerns invalid?
It makes whether or not you want to move to another board irrelevant, which is the entire purpose of this thread.
>> No. 123808
File 135182873436.png - (207.79KB , 398x600 , Creeper Pie.png )
123808
>>123803

Thossssse are ssssome nicccce jerries you have there. It would be a sshhame if sssssomepony ruffled them.

Seriously though, and somebody correct me if I'm wrong here, it seems like the majority of people who've spoken up aren't actually for the move so much as they're not opposed to it. With that in mind, I'd say there wouldn't be a problem with folks simply packing up and leaving.

At the same time, while folks aren't necessarily opposed to moving, there are definitely individuals who are, and I can't imagine them leaving without being persuaded as to why a move is for the best.

If those people aren't convinced that they should leave for the other site, then there will definitely be a split, which changes the issue from "should we move or not" to "which site with an active community will we post on?", and ultimately falls down to an individual level rather than a group consensus. Some folks may have no reservations against following the group, but I suspect they would have reservations about level part of the group behind to follow a different a group. I know this from experience, actually, but serial threads are a different matter entirely.

This also changes how prereaders would have to react the situation, as it ceases to be "will we direct traffic to the other site now that the community moved" and instead becomes "will we direct traffic to one site over the other, both, or neither".

But all this is "What If?" territory, so to speak, and I could be completely wrong about it anyways.

On an wildly unrelated note, Roger, I'd like to issue a formal apology over my halfheartedly taking part in your intersite contest. I've decided to withdraw, as the condition I set for myself (finishing the fic I was already working on) was not met.

I can't get that one off of my mind until it's done, and it's made trying to concentrate on anything else rather difficult. I also set myself up for failure with an idea that was both a little too grand for my meager skill (I'd say what it was but *SPOILERS!*), and at the same time found that it was actually against the contest's rules (namely, the bit about parodies of real life people).

Regardless, thank you for the opportunity, and I hope those still involved have fun and do well.
>> No. 123809
File 135182937226.jpg - (12.83KB , 259x194 , What Did You Say.jpg )
123809
Alright, I have finally finished reading through this behemoth of a thread. It was an arduous process, and I would not subject myself to it if I didn’t care for the health and productivity of /fic/.

That said, I am—for all intensive purposes—a nobody. I haven’t the clout necessary to sway people’s opinions by sheer charisma, but I am distraught at the current state of discussion regarding a move to MLPchan. The common opinion holds that we have two options:
>inherit MLPchan’s /fic/ board and desert Ponychan
>stay in Ponychan’s /fic/ board and leave MLPchan be

To me, this is rather a silly dichotomy. It will foster resentment or feelings of abandonment, and it will inevitably lead to hardball confrontation. I propose a compromise, and I believe it will be sufficient for both factions of /fic/. Personally, I think compromising a bridge is a horrid thing, but burning one is worse.

Those who support the move and have a thread on Ponychan—whether it’s a review thread or advice thread or whatever doesn’t matter, but the thread does need some kind of constant content from the OP to work this way—open a sister thread on MLPchan. The threads will run in parallel with each other, the OP posting responses to request in either thread to both threads. For reviewers that have central organizing system for reviewing fics, this would be a simple task (though follow up responses need only to be posted in the thread the review acknowledgement was made). For owners of more nebulous threads, a sister thread can be made, but you need not bother double posting on both boards.

When either of your threads autosages (which will likely be your Ponychan thread), you may choose to remake it, or you may choose to remain on only one board. The people who decide to actually participate in the parallel structure of course will have full control over both their threads, and can request to have one locked or delete it if one board or the other is not to their liking.

For the independents, I would encourage you to try to use both boards. Get a feel for the new board, and after sizing each up and comparing them, post on the board you feel suits you best, that you feel most comfortable with, and that meets your needs best.

A parallel structure for /fic/ would also mean more safeguards from mod abuses and more imperatives to innovate. If a mod at MLPchan is abusive and malignant towards /fic/, users will flock back to !!Celestia’s bosom. Conversely, if site issues and innovations are not resolved/carried out on Ponychan, the users may decide to use the interface they find friendlier, which by the accounts I’ve read would be MLPchan. There would be no fracturing, besides the few who choose to use one site exclusively, which is indeed the intended effect. If MLPchan is the better option, people will migrate there, and vice versa.

Now, for those of us who are not indifferent, we have an imperative to make “our” board more appealing. This will require work, but if you’re not willing to work for a better community, /fic/ may not be the place for you. If both sides push for improvements on their respective sites, the end result should be a net gain in user friendliness, functionality, community, &c. To argue against these ends would be to argue against the existence of /fic/ itself.


Alright, now that I’ve gotten that out of the way, I’ll try to tackle some specific issues related to the move:
NSFW Materials—
If a reviewer wants to review clop, they can review in the purposed NSFWTG. A link should be in the sticky to this thread, so that those who are looking for these services can find them. If a reviewer is willing to review that kind of fic and maintains their own review thread, they should simply point individuals to the NSFWTG with the instruction to request <reviewer name here>. If the idea of a communal review thread is abhorrent to some individuals, and they’d much prefer to have a separate thread, they can go ahead and have one. (Theoretically, if the reviewer doesn’t have a “normal” thread from which to point perspective clients, they’d be difficult to find. For traffic’s sake, the NSFWTG could also link to respected “independents’” threads, if such individuals arise.) This tangent of /fic/, of course, would be invisible to new users and a choice to participate in or not for regular users. That’s about all I’ve got on this topic. For those concerned about the particular handling of NSFW materials on MLPchan, do talk it out amongst yourselves and the mods there.

Anon Mod (!!Spike)—
A poll should be taken asking whether the community would be more comfortable with a non-anon mod. The final decision should be left to him, but confidence in his abilities as moderator would be tested by how he handles the situation. In the end, should he prove himself to be extremely competent, this would mean a boon in appeal for MLPchan. Fair and simple.


Alright, I think that’s about it. It’s gotten late, and I’ve taken much time from my NaNo writing in order to draft this post. I sincerely hope this will help to resolve some of the conflicts revolving around this issue. I would like to remind everyone that this is not something that can be solved in a day.

If this even inspires a better solution from someone else, I will be happy and greatly relieved.


>>123789
>>123714
This one is wise.
>> No. 123813
>>123808
The rules say you can't use real life persons unless it's a parody. It's similar to most laws regarding using real life persons.

You've still got three days left (and a weekend at that), so don't give up now! ;3
>> No. 123814
File 135183188870.png - (1.07MB , 2063x2652 , Music, cantrips, laughter and smiles, at your service!.png )
123814
>>123813

Ah, okay. Still, have you seen the pace I write at? It's wildly erratic, I've both written an entire 15,000 word fic in the span of a week and at the same time struggled to finish a 4,000 word chapter over the course of a month.

With That Rainbow Mane (the fic I'm working on atm) on the brain, I just can't manage anything else. Thank you for the encouragement, though.
>> No. 123816
I can see some reviewers being willing to maintain two presences for their review thread. At a glance, it appears Applejinx and Bleeding are doing so, and Figments was at one point. There will also be several who don't wish to maintain dual threads, either because they don't want the headache, or because they have reasons like (N)SFW or desiring new features. Some regulars like Request/Recommend will appear in both locations, but now that info is split across two locations. Some threads, like the misc discussion threads and possibly some of the small groups like SFG or MST3K, will only appear on one board. So now our slow daily trickle of information is diffused over twice the region (with a small amount of pointless duplication) and it remains so until people get increasingly pissed at the stupidity of the predicament and start converging onto one board out of irritation, abandoning a few of the loyalists in the process. You could argue that this works, but it hardly sounds pleasant. And of course that's best case. Worst case, hostilities (which are already clearly present) escalate between the two factions, they divide, neither is self-sufficient, they fizzle.

The one board I can't see dividing (and ironically enough, someone's already taken it upon themself to duplicate it at http://mlpchan.net/fic/res/525.html ) is TTG. Yes, the queue is hosted externally. However, it's not fully divorced from the chan; maintainers are responsible for a lot of manual upkeep. Those maintainers now need to traverse two threads for claims, acknowledgements, and other such updates, and correlate those two threads into one spreadsheet, not to mention inevitably dealing with "simultaneous" claims on each board and other such conflicts, and trying to contact one of the reviewers on one of the boards to inform them to stop reviewing. Now, I'm 110% positive that whoever created MLPchan's TTG is going to reply to this and tell me this concern is frivolous. My reply: does this mean you're volunteering to be a TTG maintainer? It's not a huge headache, but I think the active maintainers will agree that it is indeed a headache. Was this taken into consideration?

EQD is still a concern for me. Cassius says they'll move if MLPchan proves itself, but Vimbert appeared opposed. EQD could theoretically recommend both locations but I've voiced my concerns plenty about maintaining two stable environments. Based solely on lurking in the Ask A PR thread, I have to assume that Seth retains enough clout in the fanfiction sector that he could probably veto endorsement of a site if it became too smutty. What happens if MLPchan gets blackballed after we move? Follow TTG back to Ponychan?

I'm finding myself caring less and less about what website we end up at, and more and more about the manner in which the discussion is being handled. Proponents of moving are claiming that discussion is still open, but actions like creating the MLPchan TTG today say otherwise. A number of concerns (not all concerns raised, but a sizable number) keep getting dismissed as frivolous/unwarranted/trivial. As we all know, being told your fears are stupid is the best way to overcome them. At this point, I'm not going to stand in the way of a move, but neither will I support the move implying I have clout until I feel assured that this has been thought through and not merely strong-armed.
>> No. 123817
File 135183777016.jpg - (66.18KB , 496x640 , count_to_9.jpg )
123817
Poll: http://derpy.me/RTxcp

Results: http://derpy.me/ZvZyh
----
Well.

I am Casca, and I support the move.

I don't really mind that the mod is anonymous; as long as they don't go about editing posts willy-nilly, I'm fine with it.

I will continue to review fics in Ponychan's queue, until the time to move comes. Then I will move. Ideally, I'd like for the TG's queue to be cleared in time for that - so that the existing review requests don't have to jump to a new board to get their help. I'll be reasonably active for the next few months, thanks to sem break, so I can say that I'll be helping out during the new TG's infancy, at least.

NSFW elements are going to be permanently hidden for me. Just how effective the filter is, well, we won't see until we put it into practice, but I'll make a note of it if it doesn't work.

Most of the TG's reviewers are either supportive or neutral, with Azu being the only one opposed, to my limited knowledge. Most are also saying "If it moves, then we'll move with it" - if any of you good reviewers would chip in, we could make an account of the probability of a TG move being successful, ergo, how much of the neutral block would become supporters by condition. Personally, for reasons already discussed, I'm hoping that all of us, not just a majority, move, because we're all a community, and the spirit of community doesn't really work in fractions.

And that's my two cents.
>> No. 123818
File 135183801704.jpg - (179.16KB , 751x1064 , scoots_world_by_iopichio-d4qn51z.jpg )
123818
Okay, I swore off thinking about this damned move for a couple of days, but this is a festering sore and it's worrying me sick.

What would "not moving" look like, at this point? As Pav pointed out, there's already a duplicate TTG thread over there. Is there even any real possibility of "not moving" in any meaningful sense? If people want to create parallel threads, no one can stop them, but doesn't that constitute the first step in a "move", as dolfeus argued? But we're not supposed to "move" without overwhelming community support... What? Then doesn't it appear that we can neither move nor not move?

Then how does the move work? If we can't come to a consensus before a move, and if we can't use a parallel thread system, and if we can't split the community, then... what? Are we all supposed to just get the fuck up and walk over to MLPchan? But the majority of us are saying, "I'll go if the others go." Who's gonna go first? And when they do, isn't that a unilateral move, which inherently contradicts the notion of making sure the community is nearly unanimous?

How would we work it, given that the pre-readers aren't going to just fall into line and feed us traffic if we ask them nicely? How are we going to get traffic to prove MLPchan is "superior" to ponychan if, under a parallel threads system, everyone's coming to ponychan anyway? What, should we bully visitors to ponychan into coming to mlpchan for reviews? Will we have to start advertising?

[/i]I propose that we set a date,[/i] a very specific date a week or two hence, and all agree: either we will all move together on that day, or, if we cannot agree by then, we will abandon the idea of a move and stay on ponychan. What we can't have is extended parallelism, this namby-pamby leg-spreading across two boards that'll create confusion, disorder, inefficiency, resentment, and division.
>> No. 123819
File 135183829690.jpg - (188.33KB , 800x800 , sherlock_shellingford_1.jpg )
123819
>>123818
>I propose that we set a date, a very specific date a week or two hence, and all agree: either we will all move together on that day, or, if we cannot agree by then, we will abandon the idea of a move and stay on ponychan
This. Ion, could you ask the MLPchanners and get us one of these?
>> No. 123821
Personally, I'm supportive of the move to MLPChan, mainly because of the upgrade in features it has. Post editing is great, and I actually like it more because it allows NSFW content, but under a filter. That's awesome, and (to my knowledge) allows even mature fics to get critiqued and edited.

Some of the smaller features also impress me, like the easy quoting and BBCode shortcuts. Those kinds of things add up to a heck of a lot of functionality, so even on a purely technical level, I like the idea of switching over.

Then, finally, if there's a dedicated mod there, even better. If I'm not mistaken (and forgive me, because I don't frequent /fic/ as much as I should), /fic/ is generally self moderated. By having a mod who's active, that instantly makes it easier to deal with users breaking the rules of otherwise doing things incorrectly.

I'm pretty much a nobody on this board, but I figured I'd throw my opinion out there anyway.
>> No. 123825
File 135184124540.png - (248.39KB , 975x1057 , d4d26e77c7e41e2dadf544eaac6555ed.png )
123825
This thread was quite the read.

My big concern about moving, as I've said in the IRC, is the community. I've seen site moves fracture and destroy communities before, and no amount of post-editing or fancy tagging functionality is worth gutting the community we have here. However, not supporting a move just because I in my limited experience have never seen one that didn't completely screw up everything is pessimistic and kinda cowardly. I would like to think that this could work.

I expressed some concern that the allowance of NSFW content might result in a FIMchan-ication of the board. My concerns have been mostly allayed by the presence of the opt-in filter. As long as I can pretend the NSFW stuff doesn't exist and still use the board in the same way I use this one, I'm happy. My favourite thing about Ponychan has always been its intolerance of NSFW stuff, but this boils down to the same thing.

Honestly, though, I could live without moving. I would be okay to stay here, and I would be okay to go there. It's just important to me that we get a vast majority to do one or the other. So put me down as more neutral scum.
>> No. 123828
It seems to me that the most natural way to initiate a move is to offer parallel, but not necessarily competing, service initially and let the merits of the place work for itself in recruiting. If people begin using the new board for separate services and then decide to consolidate all of them in the same place, that is much more natural and less controversial than having everyone uproot arbitrarily. For example, if reviewers want to see something like this, I see no reason why an NSFW TTG shouldn't start up right away. That could be a test case to show that the new location is as advantageous for reviews as many are claiming. Another possible idea: I did a few reviews for the write-off in a novel format (see >>123305) and it seems that quite a few people enjoyed said format. I don't have enough time to manage a review thread myself, but if someone wanted to start up a thread on mlpchan using that method, they are welcome to. There's nothing special about that method, but it could be something different that the new board would offer. If the board starts supporting a community because it has useful resources, the rationale for moving becomes "we should consolidate all resources in the same place" rather than "this place has better tools for reviewing, probably, and we'll see them once we move." It seems to me that a change to this rationale would cause less drama.

However on the subject of drama, there's always going to be some. The new board could cure cancer, AIDS, and poverty, and someone would still oppose the change. There are going to be people who disagree, and there's not going to be a way to change that. If everyone waits for a consensus, there's not going to be one and a move won't happen purely from inertia. The ways a move could happen are: gradually, from the board naturally attracting people; catastrophically, from something happening to ponychan/fic and the move being forced; or arbitrarily, from a bunch of people getting together and deciding to move over. I think the best way would be a gradual move at first, followed by an arbitrary move when people are satisfied that the experiment worked, as I think that would minimise drama, but I think any move will at some point require the arbitrary decision by a group of people to say "Fuck it, let's go." I also think that there should be a collective decision made within a particular timeline, perhaps by the end of the month, that either the majority moves or the majority stays. While making the decision would likely hurt some feelings at the time, leaving the situation to fester would only make things worse and make it more likely that a lot of feelings will be hurt.

Now, I'm not going to say whether or not I support the move if I wrote this post right, everyone with a strong opinion will think I disagree with them, but I will posit that there is a definite correct time to move a thread. That time would be when the thread hits autosage, because the thread needs to be remade anyway and moving to the new board is just moving it farther. This is why I think having the parallel TTG thread in mlpchan right now is a bad idea. Instead of moving the thread a little farther than normal, you immediately create a ponychan vs mlpchan environment where by posting in one thread or the other, posters get divided into factions. This can only create more drama, so if the TTG is going to get moved, I urge you to make an announcement prior to autosage that the next version will end up on the new board and then move the thread at that time. This way there's no competition between the existing threads and people who don't have strong feelings or don't want to take sides, but still want to participate have an obvious choice. I would also argue that if the community moves, then it should move at the same time as TTG, and can explain if people would like to hear it, but this post is long enough already

>Maintaining anonymity within the write-off ad nauseum
I realise that I'm effectively posting anonymously (I picked a random tripcode so that I'm more identifiable if I decide to post again) so my opinion probably won't carry much weight and I don't expect that to change when identities from the write-off are revealed. I only ask that you consider this post for whether its arguments are justified and valid, more than the name of the poster.
>> No. 123830
>>123828
You know, you can change what's in the name field when you're not posting in the write-off thread.
>> No. 123835
>>123830
Yes, the reason I posted with this name and not another that I may or may not have used to post in this thread before or possibly will use to post afterward, to post opinions possibly inconsistent or consistent with those expressed above is that the post specifically refers to the review post made in that thread under this name and makes an offer that only the author of the reviews should offer.
>> No. 123839
>>123835
And that's what I get for not reading things. Derp, sorry.

On the subject of derping hard, I kludged together a system for tallying the votes in the spreadsheets. If Azusa could copy-paste all of the additions I've made in my copy of the spreadsheet https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Atn4pJH59KM5dGFOXzFKdlVJWmZGNTIyLUZlSUVyUXc#gid=0 to the main one, we'd be able to get some figures. It's really quite a disgusting, lumbering beast of a system, but it works.

Azusa: Just make your own copy of the doc and copy-paste all the extra stuff from there into the main doc and it should work fine.
>> No. 123841
File 135184599380.png - (297.39KB , 500x357 , You Read The Caption In Scruffy The Janitor's Voice.png )
123841
Has anyone addressed "where do newcomers come from?" That's what /fic/ has always been made of: newcomers. That may come as an ironic statement, but it's true. Many newcomers simply come and go, but all of the contributors in this community are the few people who decided to stay. I don't recognize at least 30% of the posting names in this thread. I also saw the new Training Grounds and thought "who's this guy Azuza?" but that's a good thing. Without new people joining to keep the volunteer-driven writing help system going, we'd have only a threadbare motley of jaded veterans that grows smaller every week as more reviewers burn out.

That being said, where do newcomers come from? Moving the community should boil down to redirecting that traffic. Even if half the community goes one place and half the other, in the end it will be the site where the newcomers go that becomes the new home of the community.

We're not passing a torch so much as we are moving a fire. The location of the regulars will only make a difference if too many of them are in one place. If newcomers went to an empty board it would then be like piling fuel on a fire that has only a few embers going. Still though: no fuel, no fire.
>> No. 123842
>>123840

Azusa is AzuNyan. Come on, Demetrius. You remember him, dontcha?
>> No. 123843
>>123817
>Just how effective the filter is, well, we won't see until we put it into practice, but I'll make a note of it if it doesn't work.
The content filter is default-enabled down to the static page HTML, so if for some reason your browser fails to run the page's built-in scripts properly, any mature content threads should still be fully hidden like they weren't even there. Accidentally following a link and viewing a mature content thread directly will also be blocked by default (same with any cross-thread link-previews), unless the mature content filter is specifically disabled by the user. Any bugs reported are usually quickly dealt with by me.
(I'm currently working on the watched threads feature; I hadn't known there would be so much demand for it.)
>> No. 123846
>>123839
Sorry, Ezn, I can't seem to copy it over. Can I just give you editing permissions?
>> No. 123847
File 135184739447.jpg - (43.96KB , 577x479 , 130725543949.jpg )
123847
>>123842
It all makes sense now! Yes, I remember AzuNyan. My earliest memories of him were his 8+ submissions of Rainy Hooves (and I'm glad for him that he's worked on other writings since then; it's what I had hoped for him*). I do however find it an amusing shift in the way of things that he's now playing a far more significant role in keeping TTG alive, no condescension meant.

* >>84157
>> No. 123848
>>123846
eznpony (at) gmail (dot) com
>> No. 123849
>>123847
Wow, I can't believe that's still there.

>>123848
Done!

~~~~~~~~~~

I've been thinking about this for a while, but why can't MLPchan and Ponychan serve two different purposes? Like maybe discussion of other stories. Why does MLPchan have to be a carbon copy of Ponychan? For that matter why can't they have boards that aren't blatant copies of Ponychan's boards? Maybe a shipping board? Or what about a board dedicated to the previous gen ponies? The new Littlest Pet Shop show is airing soon; there could be a board for that.
>> No. 123851
File 135185254681.jpg - (17.77KB , 944x300 , GhostTrickPhantomDetective_Profile.jpg )
123851
Small fish reporting in.

I'm averse to change as a rule, and kind of alarmed by folks like Vimbert saying that they wouldn't go and wouldn't send traffic over. I like you guys--yeah, even you in the back there--and I'd hate to see this group split by the move.

In the end I'm not a major player here, and I'll likely go where folks like Minty, Seattle, Applejinx, and Bleeding go. But it'd suck to leave--dare I say it?--friends behind.
>> No. 123854
File 135185763417.png - (443.61KB , 533x400 , Giant_Alakazam.png )
123854
>>123816
To be honest, I didn’t consider the TG thread in my original proposition. I do, however, believe that the fate and workings of the Training Grounds should be up to the maintainers. However, if one or more of the maintainers will be willing to update the centralized Training Grounds based on input in the new thread, the parallel structure might work best for them because of the way TTG work.

As far as traffic goes, if the Pre-Readers are willing to point prospective users to both sites, I don’t see any problems with a parallel system.

All that said, this system is not meant as a permanent solution. Yes, it could easily be cemented or extended indefinitely, but that was not my original intention. I wish to empower users to make their own decisions, to stop waiting for the quasi-bureaucracy to perpetuate stagnation. If you are for the move, maintaining two threads for the time being shouldn’t be an impossible task. For those who are neutral, giving the other board a chance shouldn’t be that hard, should it? If you’re not willing to even use the board, who’s to say you’d be willing to move to it?

This is not about convincing users against the move that the move would be a good thing. This is about individuals acting as autonomous beings who can make decisions for themselves, thank-you-very-much. And it is about speaking louder by action than by word. If you believe these threads will be starved for users on MLPchan, why would you be for the move at all? And if you’re against the move, it’s not your decision what another person does with his or her own thread.

Admittedly, I’m arguing that two plus two will equal five, inasmuch as an active base of Ponychan or MLPchan supporters will have an imperative to actively work towards the betterment of /fic/ as a whole by improving their respective sites.


Now, I’ve not heard any substantial arguments besides lack of traffic and logistics issues. The former we will only know if a move occurs, while the latter is only a matter of personal perseverance.

Experimentation is essential to discovering workable solutions, and innovations will not be made without risk.

Hm, alright. That’s the capitalist’s alternative: a free market and consumer empowerment. If you are for the move, or have simply stayed neutral, I hope I’ve convinced you to at least give the new board a chance. That’s all I’m asking. If you absolutely hate it oh-the-horror-why-did-I-do-this, then obviously MLPchan isn’t the place to go.

Simple.


>>123828
>everyone with a strong opinion will think I disagree with them
Actually, our boats are scarily close.
>> No. 123864
File 135186995688.png - (221.46KB , 548x479 , mfw.png )
123864
Considering the statement of probable ETAs in the OP for thread watching and thread searching, I say it's reasonable to put a date some time two weeks from now.

Ion, what do you think?
>> No. 123865
File 135187110778.png - (1.61MB , 1438x1084 , ___.png )
123865
>>123864
I second this motion. The more time we have, the more information we can spread, as well as possibly gain more converts.
>> No. 123867
File 135187119445.jpg - (124.21KB , 900x900 , Flitter good_morning_flitter_by_johnjoseco-d591wyp.jpg )
123867
>As far as traffic goes, if the Pre-Readers are willing to point prospective users to both sites, I don’t see any problems with a parallel system.
Yes, but they aren't.

One thing many of us here are forgetting is that much of the fanfiction posted here is not good. That is the entire point of reviewes. The moment that people figure out how to unblock NSFW threads clop fics are going to be posted. Bad ones. Very bad ones. We will have to deal with flank-hurt authors who think that their clop fics have enough of a story to be allowed when the reviewers disagree. And the reviewers could easily say 'This story is terrible. It has no plot." when in reality it just has a bad one. What is and isn't allowed by the hidden threads is too much of a grey area. And this filter seems to be the only concrete reason why most of you are for the move. For that matter, why do we even need the filter? Isn't that what FiMchan is for? Though I suppose one way to test the waters over there is to make a NSFW TTG thread and see how much traffic it gets.

Just make sure to USE A DIFFERENT SPREADSHEET!
>> No. 123868
File 135187185776.png - (65.25KB , 222x255 , nuuu.png )
123868
>>123867

Strange how people continue to focus on one aspect.

You're pointing out something that's already been said countless times before, Azu. In fact, it seems like you're hiding your real opinion about the move and masking it with things that either have already been said or things that don't make much sense, if at all.
>> No. 123870
>>123867
I'm sorry, but what the hay are you talking about? I thought the NSFW separated threads, not posts, so it's not like that opening the filter will suddenly make it A-ok to post in normal threads your 300k word epic of you impregnating the universe (and even in the threads were you could, most people won't see them).

Also, I notice that currently there is a litmus test in the sticky which states "don't bring us your short, inconsequential crap" as part of the rules, which I'm sure has some sort of standard which I have no doubt came to light as people agreed what was going to fly and what wasn't, ungreyfing whatever goes to /oat/ or not.
>> No. 123871
>>123868
Okay, you want my opinion of MLPchan. Here it is:

MLPchan does not have any new content. Yeah, I know they have features that Ponychan doesn't. That isn't content. Content is (are?) the posts that users make organized by the boards—boards which were blatantly copied from Ponychan. MLPchan is not even trying to offer any new content, they are just stealing it. And that is why I hate them so much.

They could offer new content. I even made a few suggestions here:>>123849 which you promptly ignored. But no, instead of attracting users with new content, they feel the need to go out of their way to steal them from other sites.

>>123870
Yes, they will be hidden. Does that mean people will follow the rules and post in the right threads? Of course not, this board is full of dead threads made by people who didn't follow the rules.
>> No. 123872
File 135187338892.jpg - (87.79KB , 500x663 , 6a00e5514d9da688340162ff4040e5970d-800wi.jpg )
123872
I overlooked >>123816 when I wrote >>123841. Shame on me.
> Those maintainers now need to traverse two threads for claims, acknowledgements, and other such updates, and correlate those two threads into one spreadsheet, not to mention inevitably dealing with "simultaneous" claims on each board and other such conflicts, and trying to contact one of the reviewers on one of the boards to inform them to stop reviewing.
This is a very good point, and I hadn't thought of it that way until now. There is, however, only one scenario/chain of events where these problems would occur: where reviewer A claims story X on Ponychan, and reviewer B on MLPchan decides to review X before it is marked as claimed. Unfortunately, that scenario isn't uncommon; maintainers are human beings too. Regardless of how many eyes we have on each thread (i.e. with dedicated maintainers for each imageboard), every once in a while maintainers won't be active enough to keep up with claims.

> Now, I'm 110% positive that whoever created MLPchan's TTG is going to reply to this and tell me this concern is frivolous. My reply: does this mean you're volunteering to be a TTG maintainer? It's not a huge headache, but I think the active maintainers will agree that it is indeed a headache. Was this taken into consideration?
I doubt it; the person who created it (and I'm fairly certain of who it was) has never been a TTG maintainer. Now, the fact remains that using TTG in both places is still feasible. It's just a matter of how dissociated with any imageboard we can make it. When I was an active maintainer, one thing that frustrated me at times was when people acknowledged claims in the IRC or some other means of exchange and it didn't leave a history trail in the thread. This sort of frustration could increase in the case of two imageboards (or am I the only one who experiences that frustration?) except in the case of the imageboard, at least the communication history is public and always visible versus visible only to people who leave their IRC clients open and lurking the channels 24/7 in order to get the logs. I wish Google Docs allowed multiple forms to a spreadsheet so we could eliminate the thread as a repository of claims more easily. We could try using a separate spreadsheet/form for pending claims.*

> Just make sure to USE A DIFFERENT SPREADSHEET!
That's too complicated by one spreadsheet. Matters are bad enough as it is with people trying to manually keep one spreadsheet up to date with two threads. Think of what it would be like with one spreadsheet being used for two threads and another being used for part of the content of one thread. Yeah, not going to happen. The best that could be done is segregate the NSFW fiction into a new NSFW Training Grounds, duplicate the spreadsheet, empty its data and re-use it in the NSFW Training Grounds.

* here goes nothing
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/viewform?formkey=dGZzWGZweVVCWHNuSDd3MFhWc0ZGM2c6MQ#gid=0
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuAQzDU7RlujdGZzWGZweVVCWHNuSDd3MFhWc0ZGM2c#gid=0
>> No. 123874
>>123872
>The best that could be done is segregate the NSFW fiction into a new NSFW Training Grounds, duplicate the spreadsheet, empty its data and re-use it in the NSFW Training Grounds.
Uh, did you read all of my post? That's basically what I suggested... I think. Your post is a little confusing.

But why can't we have the NSFW Training Grounds up there, keep it separate from the one here, and see if it actually gets any traffic?
>> No. 123875
Holy walls of text, folks! Edit and prioritize.

New software is nice. I have no complaints about PC mods and no experience with MPC's, so that's not a big deal.

Let's talk about clop since it's the most substantive change.

>>123759
> It's my understanding that porn is banned. That is, porn as defined as being something entirely designed to get your rocks off.

As far as I can tell, looking at the rules and at /pic/, no. Underage poni is banned as is real-life gore and anything else at mods' discretion. Otherwise, #Mature thread and you're good to go. This is as it should be: moderating things on quality or apparent intent is entirely the wrong policy in a place for critical feedback and improvement.

(I mean, seriously: /pic/
>aaaand R34 vore thread is a go! preferbly stuffs like this :3
To be fair, the OP's pic isn't exactly nasty; then again, I do like fangs. (^_-)-☆)

Roger's being naive here, and I suspect he's not the only one. I call it the Fallacy of Artistic Merit: taking a stand against explicit content, unless it tells a good story, or provides social commentary, or is good journalism, or some such excuse.

I'd like you all to step back a moment and think of all the shit (sometimes literally) that has been defended as Art. The point is to shock. Granted, sometimes it's funny - I'm reminded of a 20th-century installation with a title something like "Fountain Number 2" that consisted of a urinal mounted to a wall upside down - but most of it makes one pine for the simpler times of erotic folk art or even bathroom-stall graffiti.

The essential problem is that the term "erotic story" contains dialectic tension. Stories are about things going wrong in entertaining ways. Eroticism is about things going right in sexy ways. The time you did your gf is sexy. The time she suffered a muscle spasm, and the two of you ended up riding the ambulance together, and the EMTs were very professional by not cracking jokes at you - they just cracked them around you - now that is a story, but perhaps not so much sexy.

Fortunately, two are antithetical, not exclusive, and I wouldn't mind starting a review thread to discuss this in depth - on MLPchan.

I don't much care for making "porn" a bad word, either. There's literary and dramatic porn, and silly fluffy porn, and good porn, and loads of bad porn - but once the author starts painting the story in strokes of "frank sexuality" as the politically-correct term goes: I'm gonna call it porn. And the richer porn gets dramatically, the more toes it is likely to step on. So it is.

-- How this affects the proposed move --

Lots of folks don't like porn under lots of circumstances, and even the presence of a NSFW option can scare off neophytes. I like that it's not in-your-face in the same way it is on FiMFiction. Ideally, you'll let the neos have a positive experience with something like TTG before they're fully aware that, yes, a few of these nice folks write some really saucy, spicy stuff. If this is going to work, we have to be strict about keeping the SFW side clean - stricter than we are here, I think.

None of this is a bad thing. Call me in favor for now, but we do have to pay attention to how the culture of our little community shifts.
>> No. 123876
I've tried to read through this thread. It's been hit or miss, given just how wall of texty the whole thing is by this point, so forgive me if someone's already answered these.

What is the problem(s) over here that necessitate a move?

From where I'm sitting, MLPchan looks like a solution in search of a problem that does not exist. Maybe there's been a huge running debate about site problems with /fic/ and I just missed all of it, but I was under the impression that people were fairly happy here. Like >>123871 said, it doesn't seem to do anything that this site doesn't. Sure, it does a few minor things that are newer and fancier, but those aren't a reason to run out and uproot what seems to be working perfectly well over here. Just because a new iPhone came out doesn't mean we all rush out and upgrade. This looks like an incremental improvement that adds things we don't really need, and at a potential cost of fracturing the community that is the whole point of having any of this.

Don't say we should go over there because it'll be new and cool and everything will be like this but better. Tell me why staying here is a bad idea.

Also, MLPchan has been up for how long now? Looking at the /fic/ board over there, it looks like it's even deader than FiMchan, which is a seriously grim accomplishment. The site has been around and running and looks like its really failed to attract that much interest, which implies to me that most people don't want to move, or they tried and found the site inferior to what was going on over here. If you try to force a move en-mass to a place that most folk have already rejected, you're not just going to fracture the community, you're going to total it.

If MLPchan is so good, why does it seem to be traffic-dead, at least in the /fic/ capacity?

Finally, how hard would it be to get the new tech features that have been brought up implemented over here? That way no one has to move, people can do that post editing stuff and have collapsible spoilers, and you run no risk of breaking the community.
>> No. 123878
>>123876
>What is the problem(s) over here that necessitate a move?
Because Ion-Sturm hates the moderating team here. But how do I know that he's not going to hate MLPchan's mods in six months?

>Finally, how hard would it be to get the new tech features that have been brought up implemented over here?
Ion says that he's tried. But I have no way of knowing if he's telling the truth.

I guess we could start by asking for the collapsible spoilers and then ask for the auto-sage limit to be raised. That would be a good place to start.
>> No. 123879
File 135187623949.png - (122.46KB , 400x350 , Applejack131693212345.png )
123879
>>123876
Okay, I've made a thread on /meta/ asking for the post limit to be raised and collapsible spoilers (or at least something like it.) >>/meta/131326

Dang it, I've been losing too much sleep over this...
>> No. 123880
>>123879
You just made a redundant thread. There is a list of things to be done thread just above it. Make the request there, look at the list and wait for it.
>> No. 123881
>>123880
>>/meta/131327
There, happy?
>> No. 123882
>>123878
The way I understand it, Ion and others believe that the moderators and administrators of Ponychan regard /fic/'s present state with indifference at best and outright hostility at worst. While I wasn't here at /fic/'s inception, I was here for !!Twilight's /meta/ dustup last summer, and I was also here to see how long it took for the sticky to be changed.

The assertion, then, is that /fic/'s position on Ponychan is inherently tenuous; this move is intended to pre-empt action on the part of Ponychan's moderators. There may also be a linked attempt to make the /fic/ community more mobile, in order to prepare for the eventual adoption of GUMMII—which may be able to be integrated into MLPchan's structure, but would likely not be integrated into Ponychan.

These are, again, my interpretations of Ion and others' actions. They should feel free to correct or clarify any points I may have misrepresented.

As for myself, I am indifferent—hence why I've not provided a name. I have no particular agenda to promote, and have posted only to clarify the nature of the argument. Should my motives change, I'll drop my anonymity.
>> No. 123883
>>123876
>What is the problem(s) over here that necessitate a move?
There are a few key people here who have a chronic hatred for ponychan staff for whatever reason, so even though we've done this song and dance before and decided against moving, they're going to keep bringing it up.

>Also, MLPchan has been up for how long now?
They were originally hosted at http://www.ponychan.co/ and according to http://whoisxmlapi.com/#whoisserver/WhoisService?rid=1&domainName=ponychan.co&outputFormat=json&target=struct they've been up since June 26, which is slightly longer than 4 months now.

>If MLPchan is so good, why does it seem to be traffic-dead, at least in the /fic/ capacity?
Its entire raison d'être was to replicate and replace ponychan, but with a different staff, which is why it's a near-copy-and-paste. At least in the /fic/ capacity, few people have ever had any kind of recent problems with ponychan, so people didn't move and the board never took off.
>> No. 123885
>>123883
>There are a few key people here who have a chronic hatred for ponychan staff for whatever reason,
How many of those "key people" are active reviewers, on this board?
>> No. 123887
>At least in the /fic/ capacity, few people have ever had any kind of recent problems with ponychan, so people didn't move and the board never took off.

To me, this would be an overwhelming reason not to move. People don't have an issue here, and what we've got here seems to work. Don't try and fix what isn't broke, because odds are you'll break something for real. If any non-personality problems come up in the future, people should try to handle them like rational adults. If rationality fails, only then should we start talking about up and moving.

People have voted with their feet (or, their posts) and found MLPchan to be, at best, unneeded.
>> No. 123889
File 135188078252.jpg - (527.19KB , 1272x1153 , Katsuragi_Keima_full_628178.jpg )
123889
>>123887


And yet there are 13 for the move and only 3 against, with 9 neutral parties.

Seems like MLPchan is more of a necessity than unneeded.
>> No. 123893
>>123889
How many people post here, in /fic/ on ponychan vs on /fic/ on MLPchan? Sure, there are a number of people here who wouldn't be against moving. This is a thread devoting to talking about moving. The people who aren't in this thread are the people who couldn't care less about MLPchan, and judging by the difference in traffic between the two boards I'd say that the number of them is fairly substantial. I wouldn't judge the viability or attractiveness of a near dead board by the number of people posting in a thread on another board.

It also doesn't change the fact that uprooting a community because a minority in that community have a problem with the administration is a silly idea. By all means take your ball and head out if that's the way that the wind blows you. Just don't advocate taking everyone else's balls too.
>> No. 123894
>>123889
>Seems like MLPchan is more of a necessity than unneeded.
Why? What will happen if we don't move? Will the six active reviewers (only 3 of which have their own threads) who are for moving leave? If they want to make their own threads on MLPchan, I won't stop them. I know that there will all ways be a training grounds on Ponychan's /fic/, I'll see to that.
>> No. 123896
>>123893

First of all, you act like this is a matter of Ponychan and not /fic/.
I cannot speak for all, but I will say that those who are "uncaring" shouldn't even
be counted in with this. If they choose to not participate, then it is not your place
to decide for them, as you seem to me to be doing. This is not a matter for the masses. This is a matter
of should we go or should we stay.

And, if I recall correctly, less traffic is pointed out as a pro. Less spammers.

>>123894

The thing is, there may not always be another Training Grounds on Ponychan. If we were to move,
then as a property of the collective of /fic/, the Training Grounds moves with it.

As Cassius stated before, speaking for the whole of the PRs, so long as MLPchan meets the needs of writers,
then they will direct them there.

If we don't move, then it goes into silent bickerings until either another move is suggested
or GUMMII is available, and as I've stressed before, people, such as you, Azu, will still be adamant about moving
because they have become attached to Ponychan.

/fic/ is not attached to any one place. The people, the reviewers, writers, editors -- you name them. They
are the ones that make /fic/ what it is. If they are willing to move, then they will move.

/fic/ is not a place. It is a community.
>> No. 123897
Without any compelling reason to leave, those who want to go, will go, and those who ponychan is working well for, will stay. That's all there is to it. That's what happened last time, that's what will happen this time, and that's what will happen every time the group that's pushing for this tries again. Save for the lone outlier of the /b/ & friends serial thread, all mlpchan has succeeded in doing is split communities down the middle, and that's what's now happening to us. You can already see it in this thread.
>> No. 123898
>>123864
Both of those abilities really aren't important for the site at this time. Thread-searching would only be necessary when they begin to fill up the thirty pages they have, the same being with thread-watching. By the time /fic/ reaches that point, considering its slow speed, they'll already be implemented. Really, the completion of those projects is less a "Must-have" and more of a show of force by demonstrably proving the site and its administration is capable of rolling out regular upgrades for its user base and listening to their needs, which is a big deal for any website.

>>123871
>his board is full of dead threads made by people who didn't follow the rules.
Being part of /fic/, I would expect you to know when clarification is required. Which board are you referring to with this incredibly vague strawman statement?

>MLPchan does not have any new content
Are you completely ignorant of how /fic/ became the way it is? You're proposing the return to the system that almost killed /fic/ when before the reviewers arrived! Ponychan didn't make the reviewer system, reviewers did, and they did it by tooth and nail. By that logic, we can take the reviewer system wherever we damn well please as long as it works in its new location and doesn't stomp on the toes of some other existing group. I can't even take you seriously any more.

>>123870
It's obvious he doesn't have his facts straight.

>>123867
>And the reviewers could easily say 'This story is terrible. It has no plot."
Excuse me if I'm incorrect in this assumption, but don't the reviewers already drop stories here if they're simply beyond saving? The only difference is that now they'll be dropping ones with some boning during the proceedings.

>>123875
Well said.

>>123876
They have proven their capability in handling the userbase. The functions they offer and the rate at which they introduce them absolutely puts to shame what Ponychan can do. I've asked about editable posts and all that jazz, which are nigh-impossible on Kusuba X's broken coding from the answers I've received.

>>123878
Editable posts are reason enough for the move in my opinion. If people like you stopped getting your panties in a knot you would realize the actual work-to-benefit ratio completely favours MLPchan. Five minutes to move your thread, or the countless seconds and minutes that mount up as you make correction posts and wrangle with what is now an antiquated posting system (assuming you don't have third-party add-ons)?

>>123882
Yes, this pretty much. The administration said they would remove the ability to upload documents on /fic/ ages ago due to security concerns. He has yet to do this. If he can't take away functionality, well, getting more is rather unlikely. That, of course, is but a footnote in /fic/'s long and storied history with trying to get things done that require the work from a higher power.

>>123897
> all mlpchan has succeeded in doing is split communities down the middle
>~Here I am, making ridiculous claims that cast another site in a poor light without any factual evidence whilst posting as an anon because chances are my contributions to the board's community are next to nil and if I were to do so otherwise I would be disregarded immediately for having no stake in the actual proceedings~

All I see is fear-mongering and enough strawmen to protect a farm from crows for life. You say the reason not to go is that there is no reason when several reasons have been brought up, which you immediately dismiss out of hand.
>> No. 123902
File 135189102551.png - (83.41KB , 400x400 , 130760044319.png )
123902
>>123897
>all mlpchan has succeeded in doing is split communities down the middle
Judging by the votes*, the split's more 20-80 (3 against, 13 for) than it is down the middle, if the neutrals are not counted. Counting the neutrals, it would be more down the middle if they choose to stay (12-13), but if they go with the half the voters, it'll be almost a 10-90 split (3-22). Saying that it's "down the middle" is... well, pretty inaccurate.

But that's only counting those who have voted in Azusa's spreadsheet, of course. I don't think it's an entirely accurate representation of /fic/ (I didn't enter a vote myself), but I most certainly don't think it should be completely discounted on those grounds. I dunno. I am not a clever pony.

*I see it less of a "vote" and more of a "poll," myself.
>> No. 123903
About the mechanical improvements

I think an image board is a terrible platform for fiction. It's like being asked if you'd rather be shot or impaled. I never poke my nose out of /fic/, so the rest of ponychan is relevant to me. The one exception is the cross-contests between /art/ and /fic/, which I think are awesome and brilliant.

At least MLPchan is making a token claim to better cater to the needs of writers/reviewers. The ability to edit posts certainly makes it less idiotic, and the increased willingness to address and implement future changes more expediently is promising. I intend to start posting on both boards, just to see how they compare.

As for competition vs collaboration; If MLPchan were to be proposed as a place for creative folks (primarily artists, writers, musicians and reviewers) instead of just random internet chatting and mindless picture threads, I'd switch in a heartbeat... even if there were only three other people there. I certainly didn't become a writer for the fame and wealth.

About the culture

I don't care if the culture is identical to what we have. I care if it's productive, useful, and friendly. If it's all these things, yet completely different, then so what? Completely transplanting an entire community might preserve what we already have, but I think it's much more important to create a culture that will sustain and improve itself.

I don't think I've seen anybody clearly address a solution to this. How can we encourage the community to better itself? Is there a sociologist in the house?

About Vimbert and EQD

Based on my (admittedly quite limited) understanding, EQD provides no useful function to our community. Whatsoever. EQD does not exist to help us: we exist to help EQD. All it does (for us, at least) is funnel us rejected writers, which makes it seem like we're begging for the brine at the bottom of the barrel. If I'm trying to be an at-least-halfway-serious writer, I want my community to include other at-least-halfway-serious writers. Yes, some of EQD's rejected writers roll up their sleeves and get serious, but I suspect they're the vast minority. There must be better ways to foment readership and participation.

If EQD refuses to direct budding fanfic writers to the new MLPchan, I will consider this a positive selling point. As far as I'm concerned, Ponychan can keep 'em.

As a note, I'm not the least bit hostile to EQD or it's pre-readers. Not once did their comments in this thread seem the slightest bit condescending or opinionated to me. They were simply bringing up important issues and explaining the way of things.

About the complaints directed at Ion-Sturm

Is it really that difficult to believe that a person can be strongly opinionated, but still desirea reasonable level of constructive discourse? As far as I can tell, he wants the outcome that is best for /fic/. He thinks he knows what it is but he is willing to be proven wrong (or simply to be disagreed with, even if he is right).

Seriously, what's the big screaming deal? Even if he's a total jerk-face, he's obviously trying to help. His willingness in that regard is more compelling to me than the actual content of his posts.

About my decision to move to MLPchan, when the time comes

I remember when I first came to Ponychan's /fic/ hoping to get one of my stories reviewed. I didn't know anybody here and knew absolutely nothing about chans or image boards, so I felt completely lost. The review seemed to be taking forever--as it always does--so I decided to kill some time by reviewing a couple of the other stories waiting in line. I purposefully picked the crappy ones that had been waiting the longest, because I figured they'd have obvious problems that even an inexperienced person like me could help with.

Two things happened:

1) My own writing improved from "pretty bad" to "okay". I'd actually learned more from the reviews I'd given out than from the ones I'd received.

2) While I was reviewing a story on googledocs, somebody else popped into the imbedded chat-box and commented on my efforts. I completely forget who it was, but they said I'd been doing a lot of good work and was being useful. They even went so far as to thank me. Apparently, the review queue was pretty long at the time.

You have no idea how good I felt because of this. I'd like to feel that way again sometime. I'd be happy to move when the time comes and all I ask for is the tools and freedoms needed to be useful to others. Appreciation is nice but optional. As cheezy as it sounds, helping others really is its own reward.

Please, tell me: How can I help? How can I be useful?
>> No. 123905
>>123903
>I never poke my nose out of /fic/, so the rest of ponychan is relevant to me.

Ir.

Irrelevant.

:(
>> No. 123906
File 135189206209.jpg - (64.62KB , 467x800 , Derp.jpg )
123906
>>123898
They are always Anon.
Also, pot meet kettle.
(See: The fingerprint shenanigans on /meta/. (Unless you weren't a part of that(cant be bothered looking it up.), in which case i retract that last statement with an apology.))

And they kind of did split communities by providing a place for people who dislike ponychan's mods / admin / the way things are run.
Not that that's a bad thing, but whichever way you look at it, it's resulted in people going to one over the other or just posting in both.

>>123902
Err, if that's a vote then delete my contribution.
I only lurk for the most part so if it's an actual vote vs a gathering of opinions, i dont think mine matters much.

>>123903
>Seriously, what's the big screaming deal?
He has a gigantic hateboner for ponychans mod team and has publicly stated that he will not be satisfied no matter what we do, so good points or no, some people are going to be skeptical.
>> No. 123907
File 135189257924.jpg - (527.19KB , 1272x1153 , Katsuragi_Keima_full_628178.jpg )
123907
>>123905

Don't you wish you had that editing feature now?

In any case, good to see that you want to help /fic/ for its benefit. Seeing as I can't provide the right answers (see >>123793), Ion might be able to.
>> No. 123908
>>123905
If only you could edit your posts...

Also, beautiful. This post is an amazing help by itself and you explain points and topics that I, myself, could never properly convey. If you want to help more, MLPchan's admins can be reached through the addresses provided in the OP.

>>123906
Fingerprint? The only thing I really remember from that was the fuzzy feeling of uniqueness during my time posting as a PSP and not being matched by anyone else. The only time I posted anon in this thread was for the OP since the actual document, which is the only thing people should really care about, was a group effort and stamping my name on it would have been unfair to those that helped.

>and has publicly stated that he will not be satisfied no matter what we do
>Says "please prove me wrong" more often than you have given reasons to do so
I don't have a "hateboner". I simply detest the amount of mismanagement that occurs and the simple lack of progress on even the most minor and insignificant of changes that require !!Celestia's mighty hand. You cannot legitimately tell me that implementing those two stickied theme threads on /meta/, which measured into months, was a quick or satisfactory turn-around from the administration, just as you can't say you've seen me squaring off with !!Trixie recently. So please, do try to not only remain topical instead of encouraging something that is completely separate from the actual discussion, but also accurate. In fact, for being both off-topic and encouraging an off-topic derailment, would you mind removing yourself?
>> No. 123909
File 135189292586.gif - (921.51KB , 500x283 , rilMl.gif )
123909
Gotta head off to work. I'll pop back on if the opportunity presents itself but for now, peace out. Try to keep things focused.
>> No. 123910
>>123678
>>123794
>>123907
>>123908

>don't chu wish your edit button was hot liek me?

For the love of god, please stop.
>> No. 123913
File 135189444470.png - (48.68KB , 276x275 , SI-WTF.png )
123913
>>123908
Was talking about this
>Here I am, making ridiculous claims that cast another site in a poor light without any factual evidence
But forget about it, i was thinking of somebody else.

Ion, reasons for that were given to you repeatedly and you disregard them every time as being irrelevant. You also bring that situation up at every opportunity.
It took forever. We get it.
And what can seem minor or insignificant, could take an hours worth of solid coding to get it to work and mesh with the rest of it without any serious bugs. You said just recently that you're not a code monkey, so i suggest talking with someone who has knowledge of coding and/or knowledge of kusaba / ponychans Frankenstein version of such.
>Says "please prove me wrong" more often than you have given reasons to do so
Sort of irrelevant to what i said there, which was what i think is the reason people are criticizing you in here.

And my post was on-topic for the most part.
I talked about the split community thing, and considering that's a major concern for a lot of people including yourself, i figure that is on-topic.
I talked about the vote/poll thing and explicitly said to remove my opinion if it was a vote because of my lack of contribution to /fic/.
And i gave a reason for why people are complaining at / about you in this thread despite your willingness to help, which, apart from informing you that the anon was always anon (and the subsequent incorrect statement about the fingerprint shenanigans, which i apologize for as a result.), are the only things in that post i consider off-topic.

So, no.
>> No. 123914
File 135189722374.png - (48.49KB , 285x281 , Sage.png )
123914
>Multiple people from mlpchan basically telling me to GTFO this thread because my opinion is unwanted by the /fic/ reviewer community or because it looks like ponychan mods are desperate to keep people here.
I apologize for caring about a community i lurk and is part of the site i moderate.
As I've said multiple times in this thread alone, i dont really care what happens as long as you dont split your group too badly.
Sage for offtopic, and i wont trouble you with my presence any longer.
>> No. 123916
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123916
>>123903
>I don't think I've seen anybody clearly address a solution to this. How can we encourage the community to better itself? Is there a sociologist in the house?
Forty lashes with the cat-o’-nine-tails!

Please, anyone, tell me why my propositions at >>123854 and >>123809 are not viable. To recap (and innumerate, as I didn’t address some points):
>Those in support of a move and own threads, create a second thread on MLPchan. You may even ask a mod to edit your Pchan OP to link to the “sister thread.”
>Those in support of a move and don’t own threads, but who do contribute to a communal thread, contribute to the MLP versions (if one is available).
>Those in support of a move and don’t do anything on /fic/ besides discussion, use the MLPchan board to get a feel for it, and contribute if you can.
>Those neutral, use both boards and get a solid comparison of the pros and cons of each.
>Those against, continue using /fic/ as you normally do. This will (likely) not affect you, unless Ponychan becomes starved for users.

Some points for this system:
>A parallel /fic/ system would also work as a double-annex. Abuses in either will cause a loss of users for that site due to competition, while community-building and innovation will draw more to the site.
>A parallel /fic/ would mean implanting in the collective psyche the fact that /fic/ is independent of the site(s) which host it.
>It will bring innovation, community, resolve, or anything else necessary to the maintenance of a healthy /fic/ by virtue of competition.


The points against (that I’ve seen):
>Less traffic/deserted board
If all goes to plan, MLPchan would get a surge in use, as well as continue to gain new followers due to (what’s been argued as) highly superior functionality.
>maintaining two threads may be difficult/cause logistical issues to arise/&c.
If you are for moving, you’ve already set yourself up for some work to start with. And if you’ve taken the time to post in this thread, you’ve probably expended more work than it’d take to check between two image boards.
>split community/”leg spreading”
I must be honest, my original model would call for eventually deciding to live exclusively in one board or another at a time in the future when it’s deemed necessary. However, the parallel model may work extremely well, and need not be replaced if the individual content producers prefer to continue maintaining parallel threads.


A last point I’d like to make:
>>123871
>MLPchan does not have any new content. Yeah, I know they have features that Ponychan doesn't. That isn't content. Content is (are?) the posts that users make organized by the boards—boards which were blatantly copied from Ponychan. MLPchan is not even trying to offer any new content, they are just stealing it. And that is why I hate them so much.
Ponychan does not own its users. Users generate the content, and therefore should be free to post it wherever they please. You say MLPchan has “copied”—an action you seem to equate with thievery—content from Ponychan and doesn’t have any “new content” to offer. If offering better services and attracting new customers is theft, the First World has been doing economics all wrong.


When you guys are finished bashing your skulls together, do take a moment to consider the long-term benefits to the board of each proposed action (non-action, complete upheaval, and parallelism).
>> No. 123918
>>123914
As long as people aren't posting opinions anon / sockpuppeting it's all g.

But clearly you should be writing your entry for the staff write-off. On that note, I think it's obvious that the final verdict here should be determined by the winner of that.
>> No. 123919
>>123793

I will gladly discuss this with you.

>... I'm actually popular? Never thought that'd happen, but okay.

Do you know how to make or maintain a thread? Do you make good reviews that people are willing to listen to and will gladly request you for?

If so, you are “big”. You have a say because you have been given authority by the little fish like myself who might look up to you, the peers you shall surround yourself with, and the tools and skills you bring to the table here.

Even if your name is not as big as Sturm, or Demetrius, it can carry weight if you have those who will support you, should you stop sitting and get moving. And your title is still more valuable than mine, at least to me, because I see you popping up and hear your voice far more often than most anyone will hear mine at this given moment.

You told me change is natural. I agreed, but added that it is often human nature to avoid change whenever possible. But, if change is natural, so is division, for that is part-and-parcel of change. It isn’t a desired piece, but it’s unavoidably part of the process.

Wishing to avoid any division at all is unrealistic. Again, you’ll not convince everyone. Some will argue for valid reasons, like true concerns about content and how it will be maintained. They will need proof, which is best done through action, not discussion. Go there and show them the system works.

Work the new TTG, or start a good thread there. If you do, some might question it, but let your results speak for themselves.

It could be a good opportunity to let this new mod flex his authority on threads we know should be controlled because people we know are in charge of them with values we desire. If your threads lose control because the new mod does not act appropriately, we can train or replace him as needed with a mod we know will do the job right.

It might also show how willing people will be to respect the boundaries this board has established. We might have occasional hiccups, because allowing NSFW threads to exist at all is an admittedly new direction for us, but it might also prove we can coexist with our fellow fandom as long as they are willing to play by some basic rules and keep to their own boards for that content. We are not asking them to go die in a ditch somewhere, we are just asking them to acknowledge that our tastes do not run parallel to theirs and giving them a place to go so that they might have the freedom to choose where they wish to be in regards to the community. We should not deny them opportunity because we are afraid of some hard work.

Others will argue just to be contrary and try to goad purpose out of their being here. You cannot waste time by trying to crumble a brick wall with shouting. It’s only worked once.

>>123799

>I suppose the funny thing is that the main reason I'm not for the change is because of the people who are spearheading it.

I counter that you are being unfair to the project itself. Sturm and Figments might have had the idea, or at least they are proposing the idea, but they are not the final say.

Sturm’s occasional douchebaggery and sometimes abrasive nature are not the issue here. He is not king of /fic/. If the board were to move, he would not be king of the new /fic/. He will be part of /fic/ as much as you are in the new place and that will not change. If his ego should inflate and he should proclaim himself the savior of /fic/ because he proposed the move, then you, I and all the community shall likely boot his ass between his teeth until he learns better.

He has say in his own thread, as you have say in yours. If he is “spearheading” the project, it’s only because he’s the one who started speaking first about it and we’re putting him in that position ourselves. If the matter is of personal tastes in regards to the “leader”, you could easily find someone else who you trust and listen to them instead on this matter. We’ve proven that virtually everyone here will gladly speak about it both long and loud.

Making Sturm the pariah, or villain, of the whole shebang is even less effective than doing so with the monkeys from Wizard of Oz. I would in some regards prefer we did that, as that would at least be entertaining to watch. Sturm will move what Sturm can move, and those he can convince of his arguments will listen to him. If you do not trust or like Sturm, you do not have to.

But please, for the love of sanity, do not let the fact that both sides have their asshats make the project itself suffer. If you have issue with the project itself, and question its ability to work for the good of the community, then you have acted best for everyone and I can salute you for it, if not agree with you on it. If you chose to ignore possible gains merely because someone you don’t like speaks from the podium at that given time, you will deny everyone.

You have influence, Roger. I acknowledge that, Sturm should acknowledge that if for some odd reason he does not, and most everyone should or does acknowledge that. As much as Sturm can make this happen, so too can you help or hurt it. Your voice will carry weight and your moves will sway those who chose to listen to you. Decide wisely, as your final choice will have more impact than you might think.

>>123876

This seems to be a common argument against the move. I also hear it from Azusa, but these anons seem far more intent on their bite, so I shall try and reason with them like the adults I want to believe they are.

In answer to questions like these:

>What is the problem(s) over here that necessitate a move?

Simply put, there aren’t any; at least, none that would be considered crippling or disastrous at this time.

But we have been given an opportunity, so why should we not take it? I’ll have little use for most of the tools myself quite likely, but I can acknowledge that they are nice features. Why should we deny others, or ourselves, access to those good features?
>Just because a new iPhone came out doesn't mean we all rush out and upgrade. This looks like an incremental improvement that adds things we don't really need, and at a potential cost of fracturing the community that is the whole point of having any of this.

That is because we would still have to pay for that iPhone, upgrades and all, which is why we wouldn’t upgrade unless it were substantial or the old one broke. This is very wise and I can applaud us for such good sense.

However, this is a complete freebie for both you and me. If, tomorrow, I was offered the upgrade for free by Apple itself, eliminating loss of income and being made through its actual owners, I am fairly certain I would take it. There are people who kill for less.

Do I need the upgrade? Maybe not, but when opportunity knocks, it is impolite to spit in its eye and then act shocked if you don’t get it again. For all I know, maybe I’ll find the upgrade helpful. It’s normally better to have something and not need it, then to need it and not have it. Plus, even if you personally don’t use the upgrades, who’s to say one of your friends couldn’t have some use for them?

And what is it with people saying this will “fracture the community”? This would be a move to another website, not another country. Literally the only thing that changes for the majority of us is what we put into the address bar at the top of the screen, which is the replacement of about four letters.

If the community is strong enough to have arguments like this and not immediately disintegrate right then and there, as has been aptly demonstrated, moving to a different place shouldn’t be so horrible because we’ll follow the people we care about to the new place.

We’d survive just fine, and I would almost feel like the entire board is being mocked as a collection of chaotic chimpanzees, were I not thinking and hoping that you’re speaking with genuine concerns for the community.

>Also, MLPchan has been up for how long now? Looking at the /fic/ board over there, it looks like it's even deader than FiMchan, which is a seriously grim accomplishment. The site has been around and running and looks like its really failed to attract that much interest, which implies to me that most people don't want to move, or they tried and found the site inferior to what was going on over here. If you try to force a move en-mass to a place that most folk have already rejected, you're not just going to fracture the community, you're going to total it.

>If MLPchan is so good, why does it seem to be traffic-dead, at least in the /fic/ capacity?

Because we’re not there and they’ve been fighting us for traffic since inception. They’re competing against people with much more experience in this field, and though they might try valiantly, they’re struggling like this board itself quite likely did when it first born. Their tools are very nice, but someone who knows how to use a knife will devastate someone who blunders with a sword.

We exist, so, therefore, they are dying because of that.

And if you want to argue that that is further reason to avoid moving, I’ll tell you that someone who masters knives and moves on to master swords will devastate someone who has only learned to master knives. It’s only logical that of two parties with equal skills in one field, the victor will be whoever has more options.

This is our opportunity to move up, if only by a step, and increase our community with our newer ability to reach people. And, even if the move doesn’t happen, the fracture you, Sturm, and Figments keep harping about is already here as is indicative by the way it is being opposed as though the opponents were planning to dunk us in acid instead of just changing our location.

When you move between cities or states or countries, you lose folks because you aren’t physically able to be there with them anymore as you once were.

This is the internet. The people you know here will literally be only a different set of keystrokes away. And this change is being discussed on this very thread, as well as likely argued throughout the other threads to some regard, so you wouldn’t have any excuse to miss where it went. Even months after the move, if by some miracle that was managed to be missed though during which and for a while after some signs could be left pointing folks in the right direction, it should be no great hardship to find the new place if we’re such a big part of the community anyways.

So please tell me why you, or Figments, or even Sturm, are so intent on holding such angry shit-flingings over what should be a simple decision. The particulars can be admittedly complicated, yes, but the decision itself is simple.

Do we, or do we not, want the advantages this brings at the cost of some confusion and resettling as things are moved around? There are shockingly few arguments being made at just how difficult moving the actual threads would be, but that would be neither your, nor my, business anyways.

That’s the thread-makers piece to hash out and debate because they’re the poor souls who get left with that responsibility.

Now, if you say yes, it is worth it, then you should help unpack and organize at the new house by sniffing around your usual threads to make sure things are set up as they once were. If the newbies who will likely come there start making trouble, you can help the mods and teach the newcomers the rules regarding how we operate. If the thread maker missed an important part of their thread, you can point it out and then help make sure things are running smoothly again.

If not, you could stay here at Ponychan with anyone else who would want to stay and leave the lights on, because we’d have no intent on dragging unwilling help along for the ride. Make a thread here and call it “MLPchan was a terrible idea” for all I care and fill it to bursting with how much you don’t like the place and make your efforts to convince people why you’re correct. It will likely be saddening, but that’s your choice and we should respect it. We may not like it, and many people may choose to abandon such a thread, but you have ultimate say in what you choose to do with yourself.

If the new place works out, you can come on over and lock up when you do. If it doesn’t, you provided a safe haven for us to come back to and you get to serve an important purpose by helping keep this board alive while the new one is tested.

>Finally, how hard would it be to get the new tech features that have been brought up implemented over here?

If that had been a truly feasible option, I like to imagine it would have been explored. And if you are capable of making it so, please work on it so that this matter might be closed and this whole debate tossed out.

However, even if it is feasible, I also like to imagine that the board has common sense. When you have two equally sound frameworks, why just take the bits from new one and try to cram them in the old? Putting new pieces into old frames is much harder, and trickier, than simply making with the old frame with newer materials.

For a more technical method of saying it, it’s like making an old computer use newer programs. That’s certainly possible, but it’s a much more difficult task than simply using new tech to run older programs. So that said, I’d personally prefer to avoid making more work for myself than was necessary were I a maker of threads or a maintainer of this board.

Regardless, since this still does not really affect users like you or me for any longer than maybe a few weeks as stuff is moved and arranged in the new site by those who are actually moving the threads, which shall then continue to work hard as they have always done, I do not understand what it is that some of us are being so stubborn and contrary about in this particular manner.

This gives us every advantage at the simple cost of some time getting used to it. It will take some patience on our part is all, which I like to imagine we can demonstrate and utilize as the adults and reasonable people we should be.
>> No. 123920
>>123919(cont.)

***

>>123841

Demetrius made an interesting metaphor regarding the move and what it represents for us:

>We're not passing a torch so much as we are moving a fire. The location of the regulars will only make a difference if too many of them are in one place. If newcomers went to an empty board it would then be like piling fuel on a fire that has only a few embers going. Still though: no fuel, no fire

I would like to offer a slightly different version of this, if I might; likening it less to fire than to moving between two houses.

Where Ponychan is one house, MLPchan is another. What we are being asked, and discussing, is that some people want to leave our house and go to the new house. And, to their credit, they’re asking us to come along because they want us to be there with them and enjoy whatever’s in the new house too. It isn’t a closed or selective invitation.

Ponychan is more than a place to us here, I certainly agree, but why is it so? People are arguing that we don’t need to leave. But, I must ask, why does it matter where we are? Home is more than where you go. I consider Ponychan a home because of the community it represents, but should the people I enjoy speaking with move to another site, which is basically down the street, my home isn’t shattered by that.

It’s simply in a new place now.

And yes, I say down the street because that’s all this move really is when you boil it down. Some of us want to move down the street. They might have really liked the old house, but it has served its purpose in giving all of us a place to stay. The new house is a little nicer, and the people there are offering it to us. We aren’t even stealing anyone’s home. We’re instead going into their house and giving them a real home in exchange for their generosity in giving us such a nice place to stay; a home that will hopefully get even bigger and better than what they, and ourselves, started with.

***

>> 123878

>There are a few key people here who have a chronic hatred for ponychan staff for whatever reason, so even though we've done this song and dance before and decided against moving, they're going to keep bringing it up.

Why are you intent on dragging the sorts of politics that ultimately have, or certainly shouldn’t have, any true impact into this matter? This is again putting someone in charge of a decision they ultimately cannot make and then railing at them for something that never was supposed to be what it has now become.

Sturm can do what Sturm wants to do, as I can do what I wish to do. He is free to disagree with the staff however he wishes and you should respect that because that you have the same freedoms.

And, if this statement is part of his reason for the move, then that is part his reasons and I care even less than I did before because I have exactly zero interest in the personal squabbles between him and whoever he chooses to argue with. If I wanted to listen to people do that, I would turn on the news more often.

But, considering what we’re truly discussing, this sort of policy regarding the questioning of motivation brings the matter off what is best for all of us. Which is whether to move or not. Thus, this has us instead playing games of pointing fingers, all of which involve these strange and utterly confusing assumptions and baffling accusations that involve power grabs which sound utterly ridiculous to the most basic logic of how this board functions or certainly should function.

>>123711

> It sounds like you're just waiting to grab the scraps of what passes as power left over from the move. Keep in mind that if the majority moves so will the stream of people to review. Being the king of a dead land is rather fruitless.

I hold you partially accountable for this problem, Sturm. As one of the “elders”, and by being such a large part of the community, you should have known better than to start or continue on these sorts of accusations and insults. This particular storm of pointless shit is partially on your own head.

While Azusa’s statement could be construed in that manner, it was out of line to make such accusations and personal insults because of it. It could have been a friendly joke or it could have been a method by which Azusa was merely stating that this board would be partially manned in the event of unexpected failure on our part, therefore taking some responsibility for maintaining the older version as the newer was cleaned and refitted.

You had no reason and no true justification in making such an accusation of something so base as power-grubbing right now, and you shouldn’t be shocked that it was immediately and viciously defended against with the wrath of a wild bear. And, because you chose to engage in something that should be beneath someone with such a decided goal of avoiding division, you somehow thought it okay to alienate a person who could have been extremely helpful had you demonstrated some restraint and a little tact.

You didn’t even need to avoid the issue, or be dishonest about it. Asking for clarification on this point would have at least made the concern valid. Had you chosen to inquire of Azusa on what had been meant, because as you yourself are so constantly fond of pointing out until my eyes bleed, these things are impossible to edit after being made, we could have imaginably avoided some of this freaking drama and could get through this decision a lot faster and cleaner.

And, while no one should have reason to accuse you of attempts to acquire power either, as you have not demonstrated that this is your intent, this was ill-handled and it at least partially weakened the project’s prospects as a result.

All of that said, Sturm cannot and does not influence the whole board because Sturm is not representative of the whole board. Any of us can disagree with him, as is our right and as many, including yourself anon, have proven beyond doubt.

If Sturm appears to be making changes on his own, it’s because those who have the ability to assist him in doing so are doing so and you cannot force them to act otherwise. We give them the freedom to act as is best for the fandom in their own manner, because we wish to improve the fandom and must believe that they are acting for such. Why should we punish them for working at making an improved version of what we’re doing, and then letting us come and take our places at the new table?

Sturm has made no clear intent on destroying Ponychan, which shouldn’t have to be chained only to the name Ponychan, which is a point I make through the evidence that we are even arguing on it right now. So can we forget that Sturm is involved at all for just a brief moment?

If this is so fracturing to the community, then why does it exist at all? If it would truly shatter us to lose this one house, then I can’t call it a true community when there is no ability to change and adapt. It’s then just a bunch of people who happen to be in the same place at the right time to yak at each other.

***

“You can fake your friendships and you can fake your beliefs, but you can’t fake showing up.”

I’m very thankful that that saying was shared with me a while back.

The question I must ask is, if Sturm or Figments or anyone who agrees with this project should actually go and try to help Ponychan in this manner with whatever their personal reasons or beliefs in what this project can actually give to us, who’ll actually show up? Saying you’re neutral doesn’t really help because neutrality doesn’t make threads or give reviews. You support the idea, or you don’t, because that’s what makes this happen or flop: a decision to go or stay.

People who’ll go and start working there, ignoring the jabs they might get because someone else disagrees with their choice, are desperately needed for this to truly take off. Someone who knows how to make a thread, or moderate, or even just give good reviews must decide to lead into this new territory. Or they must decide to stay here, letting the opportunity languish and even possibly die.

If someone puts a story in the new TTG, who’ll be there to try and help them?

Who in the community will back up a grammatically challenged reviewer, or equally challenged writer, and provide the same service that is and has being given to me since I first showed up here, battered and bruised from my first encounter with EQD pre-readers? Who in the community will provide a place for newcomers to try out their skills and learn from those who have much greater experience? Who’ll make threads there and discuss the finer points of writing? Who’ll give writers ideas and inspiration or help improve on someone else’s ideas?

Who will help? Cause it’s going to be needed. We all know it, and it's foolish to assume this will be a complete cakewalk.

Why are we arguing about whether this is an attempt to destroy Ponychan, when this appears to be a method by which Ponychan could be improved? While Ponychan is nice, and I’ve enjoyed my time here, why should we be attached to just the name and this specific place? Does Ponychan itself hold the importance, or is it the people who make it what it is, reviewer and visitor alike?

Isn’t it because of hard-working people that it became what it is today, and, if so, why should it matter where they are as long as we’re there with them and vice versa? Isn’t that what a community is? Yes it could be some work, but isn’t any attempted improvement when you think about it?

If our reviewers decide they want to go, I shall certainly go. Because typing one word in that address bar versus another doesn’t matter to me. It’s finding Casca, or Bleeding Rain, or Roger, or anyone, even Sturm, when I do type something because I can respect them and listen to them, and then finding that place in which I can try and improve myself, no matter how it may be done.

Whether through writing a single fic in TTG, or watching and taking part in some argument, or helping that person fresh from an EQD rejection find their place here, I’ll be home so long as the right people are there.

Discussion and deliberation is fine, but words are cheap. Decisions need to be made by those who have the ability and authority to make or move threads. Those of us waiting to see what may happen must either respect the decisions of our trusted guardians, or saddle-up and get in the thick of it alongside them. That means either start making a good thread, or start making some great reviews, because you need to have the respect and authority given by those to truly earn a place in the final decision.

Though some of us may follow, as not all may lead, we must still must choose whom we will follow and why we chose to follow. Some will choose one path, some will choose another. But that is what happens over time, as things change.

And change is natural.
>> No. 123924
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123924
>>123906

As someone from MLPChan who never told you to go anywhere or do anything, I honestly have no problem with you posting in here. In fact, I'd honestly like it. I don't think Thony drama has any real place in it.

I've been trying to post in here if there are any questions about MLPChan itself. Saying that you couldn't post impartially and help people/answer questions is pretty hypocritical.
>> No. 123927
File 135190166618.jpg - (222.16KB , 1243x915 , 1351642418934.jpg )
123927
>>123924

Oops, quoted the wrong post. Meant to point out this one.

>>123914
>> No. 123928
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123928
>>123913
>Purposefully removed every instance of comparison between response time of MLPchan to Ponychan in document so as to avoid this exact thing as well as any other instance where it was possible to avoid calling attention to subjective views on Ponychan
>People still bring it up, despite not being of note to the actual discussion
>Topic begins to shift from actual debate to how terrible Ion-Sturm is
>This affects the actual reasoning how?
This is exactly what made the last major debates, those concerning the sticky, such a disaster. It's a bit of a sore spot and I honestly wanted to avoid the entire situation again, so please excuse my rather nettled disposition concerning it. I failed to properly read your reply and the blame for that rests purely on my shoulders.

>>123916
I've talked to MLPchan's administrator and it might actually be possible to have the two boards updating simultaneously, a la /all/'s cross-site/board pollination. Unfortunately, the administrators do not view each other in a positive light, although MLPchan's says he'd be willing to. Even if an accord was reached, though, there would inevitably be compatibility issues between the two since MLPchan has things like the editor and hashtag system, which do not exist on Ponychan.

>>123919
>He is not king of /fic/
I'm the little guy with a big stick in hand and a bigger one up my arse, the latter of which causes me to yell rather loudly.

>I hold you partially accountable for this problem, Sturm
I stand reprimanded for due reasoning.
>> No. 123929
>>123620
I'm a little confused as to why all these advantages cannot simply be implemented here...
>> No. 123932
>>123929
!!Celestia has complained about how difficult it is to wrangle with in the past and implementing changes with it can be a nightmare. Tinyboard's is far more easily customized. Another problem is that Kusuba X only has moderator and administrative positions; !!Celestia cannot give access to the code without giving the person the keys to the city, so to speak. This means he has no help dealing with an already-difficult program. The one time he was going to introduce a second admin turned out to be an elaborate powerplay on the almost second-admin's part that ended up causing a not-insignificant number of the then-current moderator team to retire and, as such, put him off on elevating anyone else for fear of people with ambitious and grand designs. On top of all this is the common DDoS attacks and spambots, which demand large portions of his time and keep him from being able to make any notable upgrades.
In essence, a difficult job that cannot be shared, leading to nigh-unwinnable situation.
>> No. 123934
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123934
>>123919
>>123920



Thank you for the lengthy addition to the discussion.

And for telling me I'm a "big" reviewer /squee.

In any case, allow me to put some of your fears to rest:

>Division is a natural part of change.

I agree wholeheartedly. Allow me to redact my previous statement for this new one:

"I only wish for us to move if enough people deem it right in their own opinions,
so that the community will not be harmed much by what may transpire."

In an ideal world, division wouldn't be part of the issues. However, in order for this to work
most must go.

>Start a thread there

I have, a long time ago. Around the same time, I created a thread here in Ponychan, same OP, same everything.

Here's what I found from doing so: the community is dead. There is no life there. Only one author had ever come to me
asking for a review on that board. Eventually, as I closed my thread here on Ponychan, I also closed the thread on MLPchan.

If you actually want to bother looking, it's right there.

The board over there is practically waiting for us to breathe life into it. I am fully prepared to go, and have done so by
positioning myself as a reviewer for the MLPchan Training Grounds. When people want reviews, I will gladly give them what they
came for.

>NSFW threads

Not to beat a dead horse (no pun intended), but the ongoing circle of "it's bad" "no it's not" is tiring.

To round it all up: NSFW threads, tagged appropriately with [#Mature], will NOT be visible to the people who have not checked the
opt-in box in the MLPchan settings. It will be like they don't even exist.

Any threads without said tag will be removed posthaste.

Moving on.

>You cannot wast [...] It's only worked once.

I think it's fair to say that I haven't done much shouting, at least not as much as Ion has. In any case,
I apologize if at all I seemed too oppressive about the move. My intention is not to impose the change on people. My intention is to
raise an idea that was killed off back in July. An idea, I might add, that was originally brought up by the Samurai and Anonthony.

>I suppose [...] spearheading it.

Don't worry about Roger. He likes to antagonize all those he deems, pardon my French, self-righteous douchebags and complete morons.

That being said, I agree with your opinion on validility. Ion may be a jerk at times, and I may be a little aloof (or just generically insane), but
the idea we propose should not be targeted as something innately bad.

An idea is, in itself, just that: an idea. Fussing about who conceived it gets no one anywhere.

>But we have been given an opportunity, so why should we not take it?

I also agree with everything said here. Take GUMMII for example (okay, I know I'm mentioning it almost every post, but it's still a valid point).

If people are so unwilling to move to greener pastures, who says that they're not going to be the same when there's a giant grassland on the horizon?

In any case, thank you for your post, Writer's Block. And for cheering me up a little.
>> No. 123947
File 135191124330.png - (105.41KB , 439x500 , 065_Alakazam_Sharenators_Very_Own_Pokdex-s439x500-83883-580.png )
123947
>proposes what he believes to be a beneficial and viable plan of compromise
>is completely ignored

Sighing, okay, I can take a hint. Time to crawl down a well. Fight how you want to fight, and decide what you decide. As for me and my house, we will do what’s right. Good night.
>> No. 123948
File 135191108834.png - (1.61MB , 1438x1084 , ___.png )
123948
>>123934
>You cannot wast [...] It's only worked once.

I think it's fair to say that I haven't done much shouting, at least not as much as Ion has. In any case,
I apologize if at all I seemed too oppressive about the move. My intention is not to impose the change on people. My intention is to
raise an idea that was killed off back in July. An idea, I might add, that was originally brought up by the Samurai and Anonthony.


Figments, I would like to point out that said idea was in fact, not brought up by Samurai. It was actually brought up by Ion.
>> No. 123949
File 135191196112.jpg - (27.32KB , 704x400 , Keima 1.jpg )
123949
>>123948

Are there logs to prove that it was Ion who first proposed the idea in July?

My logs tell me that it was the Samurai and Anonthony who did.
>> No. 123950
>>123947
I replied to it with a similar idea I asked about some time ago. Also, if you look at the old debate you'll find I, too, suggested that people could operate in both areas, if not with quite the amount of reasoning and options you supplied.

>>123948
>>123949
I'd talked to the administrator about how well Tinyboard could accommodate /fic/ but I did not make the initial push. My stance then, as the old thread shows, was "Wait and see".
>> No. 123952
File 135191272309.jpg - (36.22KB , 400x343 , ____.jpg )
123952
>>123949
I believe there are logs. Regardless, Samurai did not make the push.
>> No. 123953
>>123934
>Here's what I found from doing so: the community is dead. There is no life there. Only one author had ever come to me asking for a review on that board.
You bring up an interesting point. What makes you think that MLPchan is suddenly going to get popular just because we move there?

You seem to forget that Ponychan has a name—a name as high up as Equestria Daily. And having a strong brand-name is more important that most people think. Most stories about how people got interested in ponies involve one of the two sites. MLPchan is not magically going to get popular just because a few review threads are opened there.

What would bring MLPchan popularity would be unique content. I have even suggested ideas for unique content they could have: >>123849 We could have two different sites that do different things. MLPchan's /fic/ could be about giving the less popular stories attention with discussion threads similar to the one Past Sins had way back when I first came here. And with no one currently posting there, no one's toes would be stepped on. Then we could use both boards and everyone would be happy. Or if you don't like that idea, suggest your own. I'd love to hear it and, if MLPchan's mods are as good as Ion says they are, then they will too.

>>123949
>>123950
Here are the logs from the initial discussion. I'm so glad I saved them!

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1RBiVeQJPxHQX0EdfkM62Zr0T5EWfGU7ML5qtHAGCS0c/edit
>> No. 123957
File 135191332136.jpg - (97.70KB , 900x506 , god-of-conquest-mode.jpg )
123957
>>123953

That point still isn't valid, however, because you must see it as I was the only reviewer out of three there.

Ponychan may have a name, but a name doesn't provide for /fic/, in much a way that a cardboard box doesn't provide good shelter.

And please refer to Cassius' original announcement of where the PRs stand. If we were to move, the mere fact that EQD sends over rejects for improvement would generate traffic to the site. And like you yourself said before, you came from another board on this site.

Then the people who go to the new /fic/ would eventually branch out into the other boards.

Of course MLPchan isn't going to get magically popular! That's not our goal!

By stating that "Oh they have less traffic so they must be terrible" you're unable to be taken seriously at this point in time.

Admit it: you've become attached to Ponychan, and don't want something you've worked hard in to leave it. You see it as /fic/ being a property of Ponychan. In reality, /fic/ is also just a name.

The community can move wherever it wants to go, and it will still be /fic/, regardless whether or not it's on Ponychan. Ponychan does not own /fic/. The community does.

Also, we had discussed the idea of making one board for story discussion back in July. It didn't go over so well.
>> No. 123958
File 135191559347.jpg - (193.43KB , 1920x1080 , alakazam wallpaper.jpg )
123958
>>123950
You mean this?

>>123916
>I've talked to MLPchan's administrator and it might actually be possible to have the two boards updating simultaneously, a la /all/'s cross-site/board pollination. Unfortunately, the administrators do not view each other in a positive light, although MLPchan's says he'd be willing to. Even if an accord was reached, though, there would inevitably be compatibility issues between the two since MLPchan has things like the editor and hashtag system, which do not exist on Ponychan.

(Admittedly, I am a blind, senile old fart. But this is so underwhelming a response I don't even know if it'd be fruitful at all to voice my opinions here. For me now it's "enough talk, have at thee." I'll burn the midnight oil and take action, rather than wait to see if the Grand Fic Conspiracy will resolve itself.)

Oh, one more thing, have you been holding back chat logs? If you've been discussing this topic outside of this thread, please do post that information here. I, and everyone else, want to stay abreast of the issues actually being debated.

Have a good night.
>> No. 123959
File 135191614872.jpg - (182.88KB , 700x1029 , _Alakazam___pencil__by_Da_Phase_Meister.jpg )
123959
>>123958
Gah-h, there's the senility now.
I meant >>123928, not >>123916
>> No. 123963
>>123953
>A name as high as EqD
You must be joking.
>MLPchan is not magically going to get popular just because a few review threads are opened there.
First of all, this isn't a factor as has already been stated since many of /fic/'s newcomers arrive from out-of-site. Next, the site is actually fairly active with plenty of posts in its more general boards. What he means by "community" is /fic/'s community which, if we move into, most certainly will come to life.

That is not "unique" content. That is content that is already hosted here. It is the content that /fic/ used to be almost entirely made up of, which nearly lead to its deletion, which you would know if you were paying any attention at all.

Ponychan does not have unique content. It has unique posters. Where the posters go, they bring their unique ideas with them, which then makes unique content. This isn't that hard of a concept to grasp. There is nothing "unique" about Ponychan, only the users that populate it.

Please stop arguing points that have little to no bearing on the site's ability to host /fic/. You are only muddying the issue with tangents.

>>123958
There have been no major discussions in the IRC since the initial talks to the best of my knowledge, and I posted those earlier in the thread. The chat Azu linked is from the original discussion and those are three months+ old. They bear little import on the current discussion (in my opinion).

If I might be so bold, how old are you, dolfeus?

>>123952
>Search my name
>Not there
>> No. 123968
File 135192012891.jpg - (36.22KB , 400x343 , ____.jpg )
123968
>>123963
Why, you are correct. Seems I've made a rather heinous error in assumption. I apologize to you Ion.

However, that still doesn't change the fact that Samurai did not make the push for the new site, and that's more or less my point.
>> No. 123969
Okay, seriously.

If anyone is interested in going to MLPchan and trying to breathe life into its dead /fic/ board, fine. They should go and do that. But right now it is not a place that anyone seems to have any interest in, and trying to attract people to move shop there would be much better served by actually going there and showing it can be something as good or better than here. Right now you're just showing off an empty lot in the desert and trying to sell us on things that don't exist yet, and your arguments for how great they could be are not helped by the fact that none of them have happened in the many months MLPchan has been running since this was proposed last.

Go there and get started. Don't wait for everyone to come to an agreement (because that's not happening any time soon), don't wait for anyone. Don't just give us the same sales pitch that didn't go anywhere last time. Go and make a beachhead. Make something that will convince someone else to give it a shot too. Then have that person build on what you started and draw in the next few people.

Give us a working proof that's more convincing than "you can edit posts and that's something you can't live without.".
>> No. 123971
>>123969
1.) I don't think you understand how /fic/ works.

2.) I don't think you understand that this point has already been dismissed as missing the point.

3.) I don't think you know that /fic/ normally disregards anons and they are seem like agitators.

4.) I don't think you are part of the /fic/ community, because of all the previous points.

But, in a way, he is right. The poll reveals most will like the move. Why not close shop here and begin the migration?
>> No. 123972
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123972
>>123971
I suppose, at this point, it's the next step. Those that could be convinced have been and it's now know EqD is willing to support it if the place can prove its ability, which was one of the main objectives.

Onwards and upwards!
>> No. 123973
>>123971
I'm not a member of /fic/. Not a posting one, anyway. I just wander through at periodic intervals to read reviews and pick up writing tips. And if this has illustrated anything for me it's that I don't get how /fic/ works, since this whole debate has seemed rather nonsensical to me from the start. #3 is kind of ironic though, see as we're both posting as anon-twins. If I came across as needlessly belligerent, you have my apologies. It's just the result of my confused exasperation after reading though all of this back and forth bickering.

The whole thing would have been better framed as "I'm jump starting MLP/fic/. Who's in for helping me?" instead of "let's debate moving AGAIN," since the latter was pretty much garenteed to aggravate people who were not inclined to support moving and if debate couldn't convince them last time, it wasn't going to have much more luck now.
>> No. 123974
File 135192390102.jpg - (39.06KB , 600x450 , the-dragon-balls.jpg )
123974
So, I've decided to give this new /fic/ a shot just as soon as I'm done with my current story. NSFW thread and SFW thread, neither of which will cover a topic I've seen on Ponychan during my time here.

However, I'd be more comfortable with the whole thing if !!Spike would hike up his picture related and reveal his identity. Being willing to own one's potential failings is a mark of confidence and maturity, good sir.
>> No. 123978
>>123971

Frankly, I don't think there's any harm in closing up TTG. We already direct people to ponychan, so now we can direct people to MLPchan. Just leave a note in the sticky or something and we won't lose a single pony in the move. We tell people who are looking for TTG a message along the lines of "We've moved! Come to the new board, which we think is better equipped for this, for reasons that don't actually matter whatsoever."

Really, the technology for making TTG work properly is already in place-- and has been for a while--it's called Google Docs. Editing posts and whatnot are fringe benefits--the level of organization that TTG has reached is downright inspiring. This shit works.

So anyway, I *would* suggest that we move TTG. And I think we should even do a bit more--we should get an idea of more things that should be shunted to mlpchan. The "don't make bad threads" is a little stifling here, don't you think? Why forbid stuff that doesn't belong here--let's just segregate it away. For example, this board here can focus on reading and discussion; mlpchan can focus on helping and showcasing.
>> No. 123979
File 135192448647.jpg - (124.19KB , 900x643 , scooby_doo_ponies_by_docwario-d4jidky[1].jpg )
123979
>>123974
Admin says he's going to. May or may not make it a Scooby-Doo reveal, as per my suggestion.

>>123978
There's never been any topic really"forbidden", assuming it didn't go against site rules or didn't fit in the definition of /fic/ (writing in general). The sticky only enforces quality standards and reduces needless doubles.
>> No. 123980
>>123973
Don't worry, they'll find a way to hate me too.

>>123974
I don't get why this is so important. If it is such a problem, I say !!Spike step down and then you guys decide. That way his anonymity isn't broken and you don't have to ever worry about having an anonymous mod. Assuming, of course, that's the actual problem.

It is still say it is very petty to be demanding he reveal himself for no other reason than to sate your own curiosity while other members of the groups of the fandom do so without problems.
>> No. 123981
File 135192563263.png - (205.61KB , 440x525 , What are you even doing down there.png )
123981
On an entirely unrelated matter, I do have a mild curiosity I'd like to sate.

While reading through the log posted earlier, I found a statement from Anonthony claiming that regardless of how the original move discussion turned out, there would be a /fic/ community on his site.

From what little I remember a while back, a fellow named Sarf was talking about a /fic/ contest he was running? So it sounds to me like there was a /fic/ community there after all. And yet here, it sounds like the place is a dead zone.

So I guess what I wanted to ask is, what happened?
>> No. 123982
>>123981

People wrote in the contest. It was fun.

There was no further reason for /mlp/'s fic section to exist at all.

I'm pretty sure me talking to Applejinx was literally the only other thing that happened on that board besides the contest.
>> No. 123983
File 135192598693.png - (155.81KB , 1000x1126 , How strange.png )
123983
>>123982

Huh. I guess nobody really bit the /fic/ hook then. Pity, I'd have been interested in seeing what kind of community rose up there.
>> No. 123991
File 135192899822.jpg - (425.65KB , 1920x1080 , 41034-pony.jpg )
123991
Poll: http://derpy.me/RTxcp

Results: http://derpy.me/ZvZyh

I'd like to cruelly dash hopes for any sort of "use both boards" system on the jagged rocks, if I may.

/fic/ is a slow board. It's inactive and there are maybe thirty regulars shifting in and out. That's why I like it -- big communities have just never been my speed. But, because we're not a large community, we cannot split ourselves over two boards. I'm sure you've all seen those optimistic, ghost-town forums with twenty subforums and about ten posts to rub between them. They just look sad and empty.

Currently, /fic/ has review threads, competition threads, the PR thread and the recommendation and storyforge threads, as well as the occasional discussion thread and more occasional author thread. With all that, it still takes most threads a day or two of not being bumped to fall off the front page.

Now, imagine if we had our two /fic/ boards, each with a different purpose -- say, the MLPchan board would be for reviews, and this one would be for, let's be generous, everything else. That would result in two slower boards.

If most of our newcomers came in search of reviews, they would head to MLPchan's /fic/ review board, get their review, maybe do one or two reviews of their own, and then leave. They wouldn't see competitions, or discussions, or any of that sort of thing, and so the Ponychan /fic/ everything-but-reviews board would stagnate and the MLPchan /fic/ reviews board would be useful, but a little boring.

The expansive nature of this /fic/ gets a little traffic, and any attempt to segregate or impose further rules about "what it is we do here" would only diminish traffic.

As I see it, either we move to MLPchan and leave Ponychan's /fic/ as a ghost town, or we stay here and leave MLPchan's /fic/ as a ghost town. We can't use both at once -- if we could, well, MLPchan /fic/ would already be in significantly better shape. There just aren't enough stuffy librarian fanfiction author imageboard user ponyfans to sustain more than one small community.

A /fic/ board needs reviews to survive, because few really care to discuss any fanfiction that isn't their own. Sure, we can review fics and do discussion and stuff on the side, but hoping to sustain an entire board on author threads and story discussion threads without reviews is just unrealistic (see: /fic/ almost being axed before the reviewers came along).

I respect what Ion-Sturm is trying to accomplish here. He's been around /fic/ for a long time, he's fought all the sticky battles and such, and he really does have the community's best interests at heart. However, I'm feeling more and more that moving to MLPchan is like switching from QWERTY to Dvorak -- there are clear benefits, but the benefits aren't really mindblowing enough that everyone's in a rush to do it as soon as possible. I mean, I've lived without post editing thus far.

If the poll is anything to go by, though, looks like we're switching to Dvorak. I'm okay with this.
>> No. 123997
File 135193126060.png - (310.51KB , 900x1200 )
123997
Good Lord, you writers write a lot. I was pointed here, but I'm not sure what all is left to say, so I'm just going to skim and respond to things that stand out to me. Here we go…

>>123711
!!Pinkie is a writer. He's not quite a dedicated /fic/ mod though, being involved with the communities on multiple other boards. Based on previous /meta/ threads, I was under the impression that you all preferred the more hands-off approach. If there are things you're looking for in our moderation that you haven't been seeing, a less convoluted way of going about this would've been to just ask. :)

>>123761
/fic/ has had 689 posts in the past seven days.

>>123784
Ponychan's mods were actually anonymous when the site first went online. It worked out horribly, for various reasons, and bias/attention-horsing was a constant problem due to the inner circle of people who knew their identities. Things have been much smoother ever since we decided to open up and be publicly transparent about who had positions of leadership in the community.

>>123882
The other moderators and myself have said before, and I'll say it again, that we're proud to host the /fic/ community. Anyone who would lead you to believe otherwise is sorely mistaken. The !!Twilight debacle was indeed regrettable, but it's ancient history now. !!Twilight is gone; he's not a mod here and hasn't been for some time, so you don't need to worry about a repeat of those events. Our current !!Twilight is someone else entirely – a /dis/ poster who has proven quite a bit more level-headed and discerning, and has done the name justice. As I understand it, the old !!Twilight has taken up residence on another site.

>>123918
>anon / sockpuppeting
I should turn on poster IDs on /fic/. The results could prove quite interesting.

>>123928
I've tried to talk to their admin about things like /all/ before. I even asked their !!Pinkie mod to pass on a message telling him to unblock me. He did, for a short time, but then blocked me again soon after. Given his objections to our even linking to his site without express permission, I can't imagine how mad he would get if we started syndicating his content.
>> No. 123998
File 135193128545.png - (100.97KB , 350x350 )
123998
>>123929
I don't see why they couldn't. >>>/meta/ is still open for business. Our software is easy to customize and make changes to (in spite of my occasional jesting to the contrary), and I do so on a fairly regular basis. We've also had multiple outside contributors to the open-source portions of our code.

It seems /fic/'s independence has been a double-edged sword. On the one hand, the reviewers are the lords of the castle, and have had the freedom to shape the board and culture to their liking. But on the other, our hands-off approach has caused people to forgot that /meta/ is right around the corner, and that we're as willing and eager as we've always been to help the community however we can.

I don't have Pinkie sense. Communication is important. You and I are in all probability not even in the same country right now, which makes it doubly important. If nobody initiates the conversation, how am I supposed to know anything is even wrong? Failure or refusal to communicate will end badly for everyone, no matter what site you happen to be on. It's more than a little disheartening that people have been willing to open up to outsiders about these pain points, but not willing to even mention them to someone who can do something about them. I do appreciate Azu being willing to take the first step in >>/meta/131326, and if there are things you want to see as well, you're welcome to hop over a few boards to the left and come along for the ride.
>> No. 124004
File 135193928233.jpg - (68.22KB , 500x500 , 130342174778.jpg )
124004
>>123997
>>123998
Lo Tia. Couple a nice, brief things:

1) Can you enable post editing on this board?
2) Can this board get more dedicated moderation, or perhaps even give Demetrius (or someone he'd recommend) powers to update the sticky at will?

>I should turn on poster IDs on /fic/. The results could prove quite interesting.
That would be great. Would you mind doing so for a bit? I get the feeling it would render this entire discussion into quite an interesting new light.

>Luna is best princess. Nothing personal.
>> No. 124005
>>124004
Post IDs would make it impossible for people to remain anonymous while commenting on write-off entries.
>> No. 124009
>>124005
And that's about the only downside I can think of. I for one would like to know who keeps posting as Anon.

While the tripcode posters are not blameless in terms of mudslinging (I've done my fair share in the past), there does seem to be a certain air of GIFT with the Anons we find in these threads.

>>123998
!!Celestia, it's good to see that you're willing to weigh in on this discussion, especially in such a civil manner. A little bit of bad history seems to fester for far longer in a tight-knit community like ours.

I think the most major points of contention right now are the post editing feature of MLPchan and having a dedicated moderator who is a solid member of our community.

As a fellow coder, I understand your pain of trying to work with someone else's software. But it might be in everypony's best interests to not only have the code available for viewing, but specifically show "Hey, if you want to add X feature, here's a good place to start."

And to Seattle_Lite's point in >>124004 , give one of our respected members some control over the most important post on the board. There is probably some sort of privilege level between a normal user and full-on moderator, yes?
>> No. 124010
>>124009
Having said all of that, however, I still think it's an idea to consider moving the /fic/ community to MLPchan. Post editing is just one nifty feature (and it seems like many more are constantly in development) to consider. The idea of having an a communal review thread for NSFW fics a la The Training Grounds is something probably worth exploring. There are a number of stories that are worthy of being polished but lack the central location to get them reviewed.

Many other good points have been brought up before (in addition to the list of pros and cons in the OP). One new point that I would like to point out is that MLPchan has matured considerably in the past several months, both in terms of a feature set and in terms of a website with a user base. No site is going to perfect, but MLPchan is trying to offer the best experience for its users and seems to be more than willing to bend over backwards to accommodate the /fic/ community and its unique needs.
>> No. 124012
File 135195266255.jpg - (9.86KB , 251x201 , Deal With It.jpg )
124012
>>123963
>There have been no major discussions in the IRC since the initial talks to the best of my knowledge, and I posted those earlier in the thread.
Ah, alright. I read those earlier whilst reading through this thread. My main concern is that my idea had been debated and discarded without even attempting to post the points that would make a parallel structure not work. Still, I’ve yet to see any serious arguments against my idea…
>If I might be so bold, how old are you, dolfeus?
I guess “senility” is gross hyperbole on my part. I do like the persona of age, though…
I won’t tell you exactly, but I’m too young to drink. I won’t be properly senile for a good while now. How unfortunate.

>>123991
Ah, and I almost thought this was a refutation of my idea! Alas, it is not. You are railing against splitting the community. I don’t think anyone is for doing that. I see Ponychan as a window into /fic/. If the window broke, /fic/ would still exist, but its relations with the outside world would be compromised. All I’m arguing is adding a second window to /fic/, where people can see the same material through the lens best fits them.

>>123997
>I've tried to talk to their admin about things like /all/ before. I even asked their !!Pinkie mod to pass on a message telling him to unblock me. He did, for a short time, but then blocked me again soon after. Given his objections to our even linking to his site without express permission, I can't imagine how mad he would get if we started syndicating his content.
Well, this is something. Wow. Is it the MLPchan mods that seriously have a problem? What? I—

>>/meta/131326
^I would say the above is a proof of my “they will work to better themselves” point, but I’m unsure what to think now. This will be fun.
>> No. 124014
File 135195322508.jpg - (160.37KB , 1000x922 , Derpy_Rainbow Dash134.jpg )
124014
>>123997
Thank you for joining us, !!Celestia. It is an honor and a privilege.

>!!Pinkie is a writer. He's not quite a dedicated /fic/ mod though, being involved with the communities on multiple other boards.
See, this makes me think that MLPchan's !!Spike won't be as helpful as Ion claims that he will be. Though I'm not sure who he is, so I may be biased. (Roger implied it might be Anonthony, but that doesn't gain any confidence from me.)

>>124010
>The idea of having an a communal review thread for NSFW fics a la The Training Grounds is something probably worth exploring.
As someone who reviewed A Special Mare all the way through, I can promise you that nothing good will come of a NSFW training grounds. Yes, I know that it will be hidden, I don't care. There will still be massive flankhurt all around. Look at Pacce's The Things We Need, that got on EqD but it's story is paper thin at best. The only way a NSFW training grounds would work is if it didn't content rules except foalicon and that's assuming that no one ever derped and posted in the wrong thread.


Oh, does anyone have a link to !!Pinkie's FiMFic page?
>> No. 124016
>>124014
Your experiences won't necessarily be the experiences of others. And your assumption that people have never tried to sneak such materials onto Ponychan anyway says that you don't understand that this will happen anyway, to any board, from any user. NSFW material exists, as it always will. Ponies will exhibit poor judgement. Therefore, at some point, something violating the rules will get through. This is the nature of the internet. Rules or not, quality moderation or not, community and culture or not, eventually something NSFW (and possibly NSFL) will wind up on the board and someone will stumble into not knowing. The only way to keep everything in check is to realize that this is going to happen and to fix it when it does. Mistakes are going to be made, but that shouldn't be a deciding factor in saying "No, don't ever do it, it'll be bad for everyone."

Constructively solving our problems is going to make /fic/ a better community. At issue here is which site is best suited to sustaining and growing /fic/ to become better. And by the very definition of "better" we're going to run into conflicts of what it needs to mean for us as individual users and us as a community.
>> No. 124017
File 135195538065.png - (58.85KB , 255x237 , Screen shot 2011-11-29 at 2_56 PM.png )
124017
>>124014
I've been running a NSFW training grounds of sorts on 413chan for three threads now. It saw the first experiments with NSFW by Stonershy, and has been a worthwhile resource though very overshadowed by my own books in the genre.

The one feature I rely on most here is watched threads, as I have to be able to be alerted to a new fic to review/crit in the IC-reactions thread I do (which is also on its third generation). I consider that a concern with moving over to thonychan, but only for that reason. It's not an issue with 413chan because that place's /fic/ has such low traffic that the NSFW thread never drops far from the top of the page...

I'll side with /fic/ over any particular chan loyalty, which does NOT mean I have had any complaints whatever with any chan at all, regarding my working with pony writers. Hell, I'd run my NSFW-school here without batting an eyelash, except that it's clearly not welcome. I have never been offended by that fact. It's just for practical reasons.
>> No. 124018
File 135195567493.png - (145.10KB , 278x598 , 278px-FireRed_LeafGreen_Red.png )
124018
I've opened up a discussion about syndication here:
http://mlpchan.net/site/res/4129.html
and here:
http://www.ponychan.net/chan/meta/res/131361.html


Time to see what happens. Fun.
>> No. 124019
File 135195712864.jpg - (9.05KB , 200x200 , reading.jpg )
124019
>>124016
I think that's when the mods come in, to wipe the offending stumble clean.

On the subject of NSFW material, I was thinking: the reason why there's a call for a NSFW TG is because those materials don't have a place to get fixed up - not unless the author digs up an email address to ask help from.

So essentially what is needed is a thread, open to reviewers both old and new, right? Because that way the new TG can grow and become self-sustaining, assuming that there's enough authors who are looking for help in polishing their clop, and that a handful of them would give back.

If we could be given the leeway, maybe we could make the NSFW TG on MLPchan. Then we make a GDoc, with a list of emails of reviewers willing to look at NSFW stuff, and add the link to the NSFW TG there. So that's linking to NSFW material, but through a proxy.

An alternative: Gmail has this autoreply function. How about we make a gmail account, and put in the PChan TG: "If you would like your NSFW materials reviewed, please email this account", and that bot account would auto-reply with a link to the NSFW TG?

Of course, this relies on people actually checking on the NSFW TG to address requests. But I'd like to suggest that the people interested in making a NSFW TG should be the ones to man it.
>> No. 124021
>>124017
>>124019
Yes, and that TTG has no content limit (I assume.) Correct me if I'm wrong, but you could post just about anything in that thread and no one would bat an eye. The plan for MLPchan's NSFW training grounds is that you must have some kind of plot beyond "Rainbow Dash can't pay for her pizza." But I feel that having that kind of rule will anger many newbie authors who insist that their fic does have a plot. And I doubt that EqD will still send rejects if the NSFW thread has no limit. Plus I'm not sure how I feel about /fic/ being associated with NSFW content.
>> No. 124023
File 135195921256.jpg - (245.57KB , 486x600 , patchkari.jpg )
124023
>>124021
Which is where the bot Gmail would triumph, I think, in that all NSFW content is posted off PChan, because the thread to post said material would not be PChan. Authors would have to prompt the bot to get the link, and that would send them off to MLPChan, so PChan remains 100% SFW, and people looking for help for NSFW stuff would manage to find said help. Well, more easily than the current method, which is to dig up email addresses and knock door to door.
>> No. 124025
>>124023
Or you could link it to the 413chan one, which is more active than MLPchan, or so I gathered from >>124017
>> No. 124026
>>124017
I would certainly love to get your input on trying to establish such a thread on MLPchan. Lessons learned, do's and don'ts, things of that nature.

I've been told that the watched threads feature is one of the higher priorities they're working on. One thing I did pick up from lurking their suggestion thread was that they used local storage in the browser to keep settings (was causing an issue with someone's iPhone and settings being reset on page loads), so I would assume they would follow a similar model for the watched threads. It has an added benefit of not getting reset on a changed IP address since it gets stored locally. It also has the additional drawback of being tied to the browser instance: using a different browser on the same machine or using different machines mean settings and (presumably) watched threads don't carry over.

>>124019
Quality moderation is definitely critical to the success of such a board. Having at least one or two mods who know and understand the very different nature of /fic/ would be wonderful.

I have several "spare" emails left for my domain run under Google Apps, so that's an option for setting it up. (Running a normal Gmail account is also feasible.) If the NSFW thread gets going on MLPchan, I don't see why the email trick couldn't be set up even if /fic/ as a whole decides to stay.

As far as the structure of the NSFW TG was concerned, I believe Demetrius brought up the point (either in IRC or in this thread) that he could replicate the current spreadsheets of TTG and wipe them clean so they could be used for the NSFW version.

>>124021
That would largely depend on who runs the NSFW thread. At the very least, there would likely be exclusions for the most egregious content. At this point, however, it's still just an idea. Much still has to happen, and this is largely getting off topic from moving /fic/ as a whole to discussing the mere idea and possibly of just one thread on a new board.

>>124025
And I'm sure that we could largely abandon TTG because of the number of individual review threads that exist on Ponychan, and that /fic/ is completely unnecessary because FimFiction has a number of groups and individuals who provide their services for reviews.

The existence of one service doesn't mean that the competition can't move in. We're all trying to move towards a goal of improving the quality of fanfiction in this community. Innovation is one way to do that, and it's not limited to one site or one board or one person.

Perhaps this idea of moving /fic/ is not being presented in the best way possible. Often, the idea of compromise is dismissed as "splintering a tiny community", as if we couldn't possibly handle having members active elsewhere. I think that's a fallacious argument. I think it's entirely possible that /fic/ could move slowly, one or two threads at a time, and reviewers and authors could use both boards to their advantage.
>> No. 124028
>>124021
>>124025
See, I think we finally know your actual objection to the process, which would have been nice if you actually had started saying from the beginning, but I digress.

Currently, the only way to be associated with anything is to actually go in, find a way to open the Mature filter, and then find the thread. As shown, this is even more secure in filtering than FiMfiction, and the activities of the two types of contents are neccesarily separated.

Not only that, a non-trivial chunk of the community has pointed the difficulty at actually organizing help for other people because: FimFiction sucks at getting help for the most part, Equestria After Dark having a quality filter would make all the current stories be unpostable, and the conga line goes on. So, it isn't like the community doesn't want it, just some object to it and don't have to be involved if they don't want to.

>>124019
This is just rolling the ball farther and farther down, the bot taking the place of people being the ones to refer to other people. Notice how you are still using the whole "email me for review" arrangement. Mechanically, it won't make it easier to get help, it will just allow people to be aloof about it and render even less useful.
>> No. 124029
>>124026
>And I'm sure that we could largely abandon TTG because of the number of individual review threads that exist on Ponychan, and that /fic/ is completely unnecessary because FimFiction has a number of groups and individuals who provide their services for reviews.
You misunderstand, I suggested that instead of linking to a thread that currently doesn't exist, we link to one that does.

>>124028
I have already stated my objections with MLPchan here:>>123953

You also seem to imply that people aren't going to talk to each other. Word will get around that MLPchan is a good place to have clopfics reviewed and then...
>> No. 124030
File 135196137038.png - (428.91KB , 500x689 , tumblr_m178c4XWuq1qmz1r0o1_500.png )
124030
Since it's getting raised again and again, I guess now's as good a time as any other to say that I'm !!Spike.

So... I'm !!Spike. Hi.
>> No. 124031
>>124026
>abandon ttg traffic to private review threads and fimfiction groups
>lolwat

i don't really see that happening and ending well. Not many reviewers get through 400 post threads within a month.
>> No. 124032
File 135196281712.jpg - (11.81KB , 160x120 , Concentrating.jpg )
124032
Ongoing syndication discussion at:
http://mlpchan.net/site/res/4129.html#4139
and
http://www.ponychan.net/chan/meta/res/131361.html

MLPchan's Applejack has said,

>While it remains to be seen what kind of a technical challenge it will be for both sites to syndicate each other's content, together, perhaps the move isn't something that needs to stall. Stagnation is the enemy of progress, and this has always been about progress and improvement. Establishing that the bulk of reviewers (who were already in support or following if those went), with presence here for the reasons they had in the first place, would be a positive step.

>I firmly believe we'll be able to provide the best possible service to the review community as it serves the authors in the fandom, and roll out ever-improving functions and features that aren't possible anywhere else save formal message boards. I think it's a matter of the movement followed by syndicating that content so that it doesn't even have any risk of loss in the process. If I might be so bold, I simply don't want to see things get bogged down and have feet-dragging result in the inertia winning over. We've largely been hands-off in letting the community deliberate, which of course was what it wanted and definitely for the best, and now I think there's a pretty clear consensus. It's uncertain how long or difficult it will be for dual-syndication to become a reality (though of course eventually that will be a boon to the community), but if I might offer my own two cents or input, if such support exists then delaying will hinder progress. Actually, calling for the move asap will inherently -prevent- any unnecessary delay in the progress of syndication, as if the move happens, and should, and happens now, both sides will want to get it in place without hesitation, and no excuses or reasons not to. Your thoughts?
>I would appreciate getting the supporters input. I dislike stagnation, and I prefer to move forward whenever possible.
>> No. 124034
File 135196268186.jpg - (72.20KB , 640x512 , 4706853733_6b06f9bff7_z.jpg )
124034
>>123997
>Based on previous /meta/ threads, I was under the impression that you all preferred the more hands-off approach
That is the preferred system. The main thing is response time. Spam tends to be handled quickly but TG and sticky updates can languish, probably because the knowledge of how to handle them is limited to a few moderators.

>I should turn on poster IDs on /fic/. The results could prove quite interesting.
Please do. Perhaps provide the option for having it on or off while making a thread so that the write-offs can still be anonymous.

>I don't have Pinkie sense. Communication is important.
http://www.ponychan.net/chan/meta/res/129384.html
>Open for forty days, several user posts by moderators, bumped several times, no reply
http://www.ponychan.net/chan/meta/res/130930.html
>Answered within two hours
Yeah, I irked. Even if it's just to say "This doesn't work and here's why:" leaving people to stew doesn't lend itself to good feelings all around.
Also, that to-do list is looking rather lonely. Sure, it has plenty of company, but it's not the sort that can do much to help its crippling abandonment issues.

>>124012
I think the main argument is just the trouble of flipping between tabs, which this would hopefully alleviate. I can't speak for everyone, but i lose my place quite easily when switching through other threads for context of a post. I already closed this tab once by accident when getting rid of other ones I had used for my reply here and lost my message because of it >_>

>>124014
>(Roger implied it might be Anonthony, but that doesn't gain any confidence from me.)
>Has been stated several times that he is a long-time Ponychan /fic/ poster

>As someone who reviewed A Special Mare all the way through, I can promise you that nothing good will come of a NSFW training grounds.
>Base opinion off of single event, claim it is a universal constant

You've run out of straws and grasp at air now.

>>124017
Watched threads will be ready within the week, as the Pros/Cons document states.

>>124021
>Yes, and that TTG has no content limit
>Stated several times that there are quality standards
>Specifically told you about a situation where the subject matter is expressly forbidden (foal-con)
It's like everything I tell you goes in one ear and out the other...

>>124030
Hey, !!Spike!
>> No. 124035
>>124029
If that's the direction a communal NSFW thread takes, then I support that. But I don't think that the existence of an alternative automatically means that there can't exist others, or that such an attempt is going to be counter productive.

Your opposition, while noted, won't mean that it won't happen. If you'd like to offer constructive criticism on how to run a TG style thread, it would be appreciated. But this thread isn't the place for such discussions.

>>124030
Hi !!Spike. Good to know MLPchan is well moderated. I think they're in good claws.

>>124031
Which is the point of me bring it up. It was... sarcasm? Satire? I was making a point through hyperbole. TTG is obviously a great benefit to /fic/ for a myriad of reasons, and the board wouldn't be the same without it. It's a wonderful success story of the community coming together to better writers and reviewers and offer the best service possible. I would like to see it replicated for NSFW fics. They deserve the same love and attention as any other story (truly objectionable content notwithstanding).
>> No. 124036
>>124034
>Open for forty days, several user posts by moderators, bumped several times, no reply
Maybe they don't like you? Why should they? You seem to hate them pretty much.

>Has been stated several times that he is a long-time Ponychan /fic/ poster
There was no way for me to know if this was true or not.

>Base opinion off of single event, claim it is a universal constant
>Implying human stupidity is not limitless.

>Stated several times that there are quality standards
What are you talking about? How can you have quality standards in a review thread? It defeats the entire purpose of reviewing if the fic is already good.

>Specifically told you about a situation where the subject matter is expressly forbidden (foal-con)
I should think that no foalicon goes without saying, since it's illegal.

>It's like everything I tell you goes in one ear and out the other...
Frankly, Ion, I have no reason to trust you. You are not an active reviewer. You have nothing to lose if this goes south. I'm convinced that the only reason you're doing this is because your butt-hurt that the mods are tired of listening to you, so you feel that you're getting revenge on them by convincing us to move.
>> No. 124037
File 135196622490.png - (263.32KB , 778x332 , FormulaForLove.png )
124037
>>124036

It's funny because you seem to trust me even less, and I /am/ an active reviewer.
>> No. 124038
File 135196720747.jpg - (14.54KB , 600x254 , 430317-vlcsnap_00017_super.jpg )
124038
>>124036
>Maybe they don't like you? Why should they? You seem to hate them pretty much.
First of all, it's not like it's some greedy, self-centred request. It's a problem that affects the whole board. Next, I don't hate "them". Closest I ever got to hating a member of the mod team is !!Trixie and we've worked beyond that. Thinking someone is incapable of doing their job in the capacity that it requires does not equal hate. In fact, I think !!Celestia is quite capable at handling the code, just not the userbase.

>There was no way for me to know if this was true or not.
So, instead of going by what MLPchan's administrator gave us, you decided to go from self-admittedly flimsy hear-say built entirely on a hunch? Excuse me, but that's pure bollocks.

>What are you talking about? How can you have quality standards in a review thread? It defeats the entire purpose of reviewing if the fic is already good.
There's a difference between "Rough" and "Obviously incapable of beating a chimpanzee at crafting a legible piece of literature". And again, the rules already clearly state that anything that is just a bunch of sweaty sex will be removed. I'm honestly not sure if you're purposefully blind or just not capable of reading comprehension at this point.

>I should think that no foalicon goes without saying, since it's illegal.
Well gee, if you knew that, then you already knew your generalized statement was false, so why make it unless you're attempting a poor man's argument? Unless, of course, you don't actually have any, which seems to be the case.

>You are not an active reviewer.
This has bearing how? Also, I like how you completely disregard the reviewing I do in my scene thread, the reviewing I do in the synopsis thread, the reviewing I outside of Ponychan, the reviewing I do when requested on Ponychan, the reviewing I do of ideas in the Story Forge...
So yeah.

>You have nothing to lose if this goes south
Um, yes I do. In case you haven't noticed, I place my reputation quite high on my personal agenda and if this blew up in my face it certainly wouldn't look good. Egg on my face does not complement my eye colour, after all.

>I'm convinced that the only reason you're doing this is because your butt-hurt that the mods are tired of listening to you, so you feel that you're getting revenge on them by convincing us to move.
Then, pray tell, why did I not list any reasons for the move as being motivated by moderator disposition? My personal biases are my own and have no bearing on the talks as, again, I have explicitly stated. You and other like you bringing them up are the singular reason it is even an issue on the table at all so, good sir, kindly take that point and shove it. People are moving because they feel like it. Perhaps you should accept this simple fact for what it is as it would make life much easier for all those involved.
>> No. 124041
>>124038
Foalcon, as an "underage" animal having sex with whatever other animal, isn't illegal in any jurisdiction I could find and the arguments against it are flimsy at best. In general, it is just considered poor taste. Bestiality, even virtual one however, might fall into the various laws spread across the world. That even assumes that assumes the law can even be openly interpreted that way (most jurisdictions have a sort of "no bullshit" principle where you can't stretch things until they lack recognition or purpose).

So, rejecting foalcon will simply be another arbitrary line made by group choice rather than a legal problem.
>> No. 124045
... I would reject 'foalcon' on the principle that it is, regardless of species, underage pornography.
There are, of course, exceptions to that principle.
>artistically derived (non-masturbatory or superfluent) cultural standards within the story
>making a point (a ham/heavy-handed one at that)
Both of these examples imply that the material is not of a pornographic nature, though...
I'm just jumping in here. I am against underage pornography in all forms. I don't understand where people get the idea that because it's non-human, the age is irrelevant across the board. It is especially confusing when these same people argue that human/pony stuff is fine for a similar reason.
The sole reason these materials may exist, from my perspective, is that they are explicitly fiction/fantasy, and only regarded in private affairs.

I'm not saying anyone here has a fallacious interpretation of our everchanging moral beliefs, I just wanted to jump in and say "Foalcon? Ewww..."
>> No. 124046
>>124041
It's a bit of a grey area since animals naturally have sex upon reaching puberty. Since these characters are sentient, though, imposing the rules that humanity has are to be expected. As you say, it's a matter of poor taste. If someone wants to have the CMC do a threesome, just do the time-warp and make them older.

>>124045
Pretty much this.

There are, of course, exceptions, but the handling of such subject matter would be very open to interpretation and personal bias, meaning anything that did so would be forced to treat it with the utmost care and as tastefully as possible, given the situation.
>> No. 124048
>>124045
While I agree with the feeling, I personally find this attempts at limiting non-illegal material to be kind of making a good point of it moot.

Kinsley doesn't like noncon (harhar, that sounds like hong kong), but will be block that too? I mean, I don't like it, but if someone out there wants to review it, as long as it doesn't get anonthony in some hot BS, rejecting it seems rather arbitrary.
>> No. 124049
File 135196984694.jpg - (2.99KB , 128x96 , images.jpg )
124049
>>124048
>I personally find this attempts at limiting non-illegal material to be kind of making a good point of it moot.

[...]

Law is an attempt to mitigate people's ability to do whatever the hell they want. If there's something wrong with the existence of local, site-specific rules and regulations, that sort of nullifies the validity of common law.


>Thread derails into dark places.
>pic
>> No. 124050
>>124038
>It's a problem that affects the whole board.
You say this, but when I asked for the post limit to be increased it was done within six hours.

>And again, the rules already clearly state that anything that is just a bunch of sweaty sex will be removed. I'm honestly not sure if you're purposefully blind or just not capable of reading comprehension at this point.
You seem to be incapable of comprehending the fact the people are going to submit stories of such nature. And when they are removed the authors are going to complain.

>Also, I like how you completely disregard the reviewing I do in my scene thread,
Okay, I was wrong. I admit it. This whole time I thought this>>112829 was just for dumping scenes. I did not give it a good look. For that I apologize.

>the reviewing I do in the synopsis thread,
Yes, clearly 108Echoes is you. How could I possibly have made the mistake.

>the reviewing I outside of Ponychan, the reviewing I do when requested on Ponychan,
The reviewing you don't need either imageboard to do.

>why did I not list any reasons for the move as being motivated by moderator disposition?
>Pros: Dedicated Moderator
>Implying that MLPchan mods are better then Ponychan mods.
We have no way of knowing if this is true until it's too late. Have you seen the IRC? Many times we've needed an OP when there have been none. Filler, I have no problem with you yourself, but I've been in the IRC enough to know that you won't be better than the Ponychan mods. You don't have enough free time.

>>124041
>Foalcon, as an "underage" animal having sex with whatever other animal, isn't illegal in any jurisdiction
There have been multiple times when people have been arrested for "fictional" pedophilia. Granted, it hasn't happened in our fandom yet. But I fear the day that it does.

>>124046
>There are, of course, exceptions, but the handling of such subject matter would be very open to interpretation and personal bias, meaning anything that did so would be forced to treat it with the utmost care and as tastefully as possible, given the situation.
Okay, what if someone wanted to try something like that, but they were a terrible writer? Would they get the help that they wanted? No, their fic would be taken off the queue and then would raise a fit.
>> No. 124053
File 135197099885.jpg - (27.32KB , 704x400 , Keima 1.jpg )
124053
>>124050

>You say this, but [...] six hours.

And it took relatively six months for the sticky to be updated. Raising the number of available posts before autosage doesn't matter much.

There will always be a new iteration eventually.

>They are going to complain.

You seem to forget that people have always complained, and they will always continue to do so. Like you are right now.

You act as if we can't deal with complaints. We're putting up with you, aren't we?

>Filler, [...] You don't have enough free time.

So you're saying is that Filler cannot perform his job simply because of real life. If that were the case, then why are we even reviewing anything?

>Many times we've needed an OP whne there have been none

Actually, the IRC handles itself quite well even without mods. In fact, most of the times that there have been no mods online, I've been in there and have not seen you so much as step foot inside.

If that's wrong, then please tell me.

>Would raise a fit

Again, you're implying that we aren't fully prepared to deal with people complaining/raising a fuss.
>> No. 124054
File 135197139693.png - (104.21KB , 558x668 , Snuggles for Spikey.png )
124054
>>124030

Hi !!Spike! Glad to finally meet you, heehee.

>>124014

I don't think anyone else provided it, so I might as well.

http://www.fimfiction.net/user/Dragon%20Rage
>> No. 124056
>>124050
A couple of points, just to see if you are truly willing to listen, or just stuck your head in a bat of oatmeal and won't come out.

>You say this, but when I asked for the post limit to be increased it was done within six hours.
Are you even looking at the extremely large to do list I referred you to earlier, when you made a redundant ask for stuff thread while there is a pretty nice and large ask for stuff thread already in existence with an ever increasing to do list. Changing the post amount has always been something which has been done fast, with implementations to the character count and various other similar things flowing quite nicely because I doubt they are being controlled by a rube-goldbergian attachment to insane controls rather than a quick find, search, and change of number. Point being, while true, it is irrelevant to the idea if any of the other features will ever get done in a time before you get bored and leave the fandom. So, take a look at the giant list and tell me how much longer you think you will have to wait.

>You seem to be incapable of comprehending the fact the people are going to submit stories of such nature. And when they are removed the authors are going to complain.
>Okay, what if someone wanted to try something like that, but they were a terrible writer? Would they get the help that they wanted? No, their fic would be taken off the queue and then would raise a fit.
I am sorry, but considering that people do still submit them here, and do protest, I find you are either thinking /fic/ will then kneel down to their power, and accept their god-horrid pieces of smeared words, or we I must have missed something important in briefing. It's like you think /fic/ isn't based upon the idea that it actively self-controls what and what doesn't fly. And maybe I'm just strawmaning you, but I can't even understand why is this argument you think makes your point.

>The reviewing you don't need either imageboard to do.
Which, by golly, would imply /fic/, as a community, doesn't need this one, wouldn't you agree? The spreadsheet and all the actual heavy work of reviewing occurs outside of this place, making your point actually point to the whole "ponychan doesn't matter, we aren't attached to it" argument you seem to adamant to oppose.

>We have no way of knowing if this is true until it's too late. Have you seen the IRC? Many times we've needed an OP when there have been none. Filler, I have no problem with you yourself, but I've been in the IRC enough to know that you won't be better than the Ponychan mods. You don't have enough free time.
Until what is too late? /fic/ doesn't need a mod as much as it needs a janitor, and the guy in the moderation teams main purpose is to go "ehm, guys, fuck off, that's not how /fic/ does stuff." It's less of a argument rather than a perk, because filler understand what exactly it is that /fic/ is looking for in moderation while not actually making it something ground-breaking. Roger said it best: we don't need a /fic/ moderator in the strictest sense of the word, we just want to not have to go Bleeding Rain style to the mods (or Bleeding Rain) who most likely don't know what /fic/ is on about. So, I don't see what sort of terrible woe will come out of this.

>There have been multiple times when people have been arrested for "fictional" pedophilia. Granted, it hasn't happened in our fandom yet. But I fear the day that it does.
Find me a single case where that was the sole material use for conviction rather than being part of a collection of actual child pornography and we might have something to talk about. And that's even without pointing how slippery is your slope at this point I can see the bottom.
>> No. 124057
File 135197322280.png - (450.59KB , 700x894 , 130978950368.png )
124057
>>124030
I fuckin' knew it. There was never any doubt in my mind.
>> No. 124058
File 135197324513.jpg - (24.54KB , 360x450 , strawman-motivational.jpg )
124058
>>124050
>You say this, but when I asked for the post limit to be increased it was done within six hours.
What the blinking fuck does the issue of spambots have to do with the post limit? Your "fix" only exaggerates the problem by allowing bots to bump threads for twice as long!

>You seem to be incapable of comprehending the fact the people are going to submit stories of such nature. And when they are removed the authors are going to complain.
And again, we get the same shit here. It is a problem for both boards and if you opened your mind a little you would realize this.

>I did not give it a good look
Great. Now start with this thread and every answer I've provided multiple times to your constant floundering.

>Implying that MLPchan mods are better then Ponychan mods.
Not once was this implied, the only cause of this belief being the cause of your own tinfoil hatting. It is a Pro because it means that we have someone that truly knows how the board works. The IRC also doesn't have a report system and is infinitely more lax in terms of rules with large grey areas. Your "answer" still doesn't actually provide any evidence beyond groundless conjuncture.

>I've been in the IRC enough to know that you won't be better than the Ponychan mods
>Implying that Filler is inherently inferior to Ponychan mods whilst using an example from a different system, with different rules, capabilities, userbase, enviroment...
Apple, meet orange.

>Okay, what if someone wanted to try something like that, but they were a terrible writer?
Then it would be apparent. being a terrible writer doesn't mean you can't convey the idea. If I'm one page into a story and two characters are doing the locomotion and it doesn't let up for the next three, which is when it ends, then good or not it's rather obvious that the story's singular purpose is to send the bullet train through the glory hole tunnel. Once again, your "example" is so vague and utterly worthless that I couldn't provide a proper answer even if I could really care at this point.
And people with god-awful stories are brought out behind the shed here, too. Nothing says a reviewer can't be picky about their subjects and, indeed, there is a rather direct stipulation that a reviewer may drop a story at any time should the author's work be grossly error-ridden or if they are unwilling to make the edits necessary to improve their work which, again, I have already stated several times over.

>>124053
>You seem to forget that people have always complained, and they will always continue to do so. Like you are right now.
I think "whining" is more fitting since I have yet to see anything constructive coming from him and the singular change he brought forth (with the bump increase) is arguably detrimental to the health of the board as a whole since it addresses one thread (in a way that is largely unnecessary and more harmful than helpful) and needlessly extends the lifespan of several hundred others.
>> No. 124059
>>124053
>You seem to forget that people have always complained, and they will always continue to do so. Like you are right now. You act as if we can't deal with complaints. We're putting up with you, aren't we?
>Implying that I post clop on TTG.

>So you're saying is that Filler cannot perform his job simply because of real life. If that were the case, then why are we even reviewing anything?
No, I'm saying that having a "dedicated mod" is bull.

>Actually, the IRC handles itself quite well even without mods.
We're still talking about #fic, right?

>I've been in there and have not seen you so much as step foot inside.
I have had some personal issues lately, but I should have those taken care of soon.

>>124054
Thanks, !!Pinkie.

>>124056
>when you made a redundant ask for stuff thread
Hey, I deleted that thread. I don't know how it came back.

>or we I must have missed something important in briefing.
People have submitted plot-less stories to TTG before. The difference is here we don't remove them from the queue, we tell them that their stories have no plot and show them how to fix this in the review.

>It's less of a argument rather than a perk, because filler understand what exactly it is that /fic/ is looking for in moderation while not actually making it something ground-breaking.
I suppose. Though there's all ways the option of making Filler a Ponychan mod. They can all ways say no and that will be that.

>Find me a single case where that was the sole material use for conviction rather than being part of a collection of actual child pornography and we might have something to talk about.
http://cbldf.org/about-us/case-files/handley/
>> No. 124060
File 135197403764.png - (181.94KB , 598x356 , twgok0101.png )
124060
>>124059

>Implying that I post clop on TTG

No, but you do post your fics. So do other people. Dare I mention Hivemind?

>Having a "dedicated mod" is bull

How so? Elaborate your already false opinion.

>We're still talking about #fic, right?

With the exception of Split's occasional tangents, #fic monitors itself quite nicely. There have never been really any violations of the chat rules when the mods were away. If, all of a sudden, everyone started breaking the rules, then we'd have a problem.

>I have had some personal issues lately

So then why are you complaining about the sanctity of the chat when you're not even there most of the time?

>Though there's always the option of making Filler a Ponychan mod

Not really, considering it's highly unlikely any of the current moderation staff will approve of such a thing.
>> No. 124061
>>124059
>Hey, I deleted that thread. I don't know how it came back.
Ok, bat of oatmeal it is, let me get you the cinnamon because you apparently didn't read the main point of the whole section. Which, no, I'm not going to repeat for your benefit.

>People have submitted plot-less stories to TTG before. The difference is here we don't remove them from the queue, we tell them that their stories have no plot and show them how to fix this in the review.
I was referring to porn stories being submitted to TTG and /fic/ in general, but I am sure you are following what I'm saying anymore because that's what we are talking about and you blatantly ignore it.

>I suppose. Though there's all ways the option of making Filler a Ponychan mod. They can all ways say no and that will be that.
A possibility I won't deny, I'm just pointing that your whole argument about that is bollocks.

>http://cbldf.org/about-us/case-files/handley/
I am sorry, but you did read this was an obscenity case rather than one of pedophilia? The decision specifically states as much, and it becomes almost meaningless because just about anything can be brought upon by obscenity charges, including and not limited to perfectly adult, imaginary pony sex. It's the distinction between being arrested for rape and murder, and being arrested for negligence. One has specific points forbidding a particular practice and will get you in legal trouble no matter what you do, while the other has to convince a long line of people that, yes, this was his fault, yes it was because he failed to do it, and yes he should get punished for it. It's not even that he got into court, he accepted a plea and didn't bother to fight it because it was such a hassle and a big mess, something which his lawyers commentaries (available in the net) you will be able to find. But, lacking a real lawyer case (and reminding ourselves how the supreme court actually ruled they couldn't be considered child pornography in any shape, or form), the case is meaningless as a litmus test, and doesn't provide anything to have this as an assumption. Hell, even obscenity laws specify the nature of those involved, and the standard isn't sapiency, it is humanity.
>> No. 124062
File 135197510458.jpg - (22.07KB , 381x362 , Bon Bon131681865593.jpg )
124062
>>124058
>Not once was this implied,
Maybe not intentionally, but you did imply it.

>Apple, meet orange.
>Implying that Filler doesn't have enough time to mod #fic 24 hours a day, but he does for MLPchan.

>And people with god-awful stories are brought out behind the shed here, too. Nothing says a reviewer can't be picky about their subjects and, indeed, there is a rather direct stipulation that a reviewer may drop a story at any time should the author's work be grossly error-ridden or if they are unwilling to make the edits necessary to improve their work which, again, I have already stated several times over.
Here, when a bad fic is posted, even if the reviewer ends up droping it, they usually at least post a reason why they dropped it, so the story still gets a review, even if it's a short one. If you remove unintentionally plotless clop fics from the queue, the author will not get a review and is much more likely to have a fit.

>since it addresses one thread
>one thread
Besides TTG there's: Ask a PR, Story Forge, Story Recs, and the various personal review threads.

>>124060
>How so?
Is MLPchan paying Filler a living wage to moderate MLPchan? Has he been granted the ability to never sleep?

>There have never been really any violations of the chat rules when the mods were away.
You're not an op. You haven't heard the complaints.

>So then why are you complaining about the sanctity of the chat when you're not even there most of the time?
>lately
Like less than a week.

>Not really, considering it's highly unlikely any of the current moderation staff will approve of such a thing.
Well, we can all ways ask.

~~~~~~~~~~

This is it. I am done arguing with you people. This is costing me time I could be spending writing or reviewing. After I post this, I am going to hide this thread. I believe your reasons for wanting to move are flimsy at best. If you wish to move, then move; I don't care. !!Celestia has no intention of deleting /fic/ and I have no intention of letting /fic/'s TTG die. Good day!
>> No. 124063
Ehmm, does that mean we begin the move now that Azu, the only real person who might have had a voice in this affair opposing, will try to man the whole thing on his own? Well, with Bleeding Rain too, presumably.
>> No. 124065
Excuse me for intruding for a second, I'll stay out of the current debate

I'm doing my best to keep up on the while at the same time trying to stay out of the decision making process at all. But I think I'm starting to lose track of what peoples actual points are, so I want to see if I'm still with the picture. If I have something wrong please let me know, thanks =)

Points in favor of the move
*Post editing (Not being debated)
*Fic mod (Under debate: Usefulness and availability have come up)
*NSFW content allowed but invisible (Under Debate: The spill over of content outside the filter, and general rule confusion. Will EqD be willing to play along. Is this something people actually want.)
*Collapsible text (Not under debate, and will likely exist in the very near future anyways)
*User scripts are base features (I'm pretty sure I'm the only one who cares about this one)
*Response time of moderation (Under debate: Fic sticky example, Ion's spam thread example, and the two current meta thread for sage limits, collapsible text, and syndication. As well as if the dedicated mod will actually increase the response time. Sticky update delays (tied in with post edit functionality))

A few of these people keep saying are resolved, but I didnt actually see the person change their opinion so I kept it. I'm sure I missed a few points, it's a very long thread and I'm trying to simplify down to the bare minimum (and keep all opinion out of it)
Am I still following everything correctly?

Hypothetical question that shouldnt likely be answered
Ion; If you were given everything your arguing for on this site, would you change your mind?
Would the rest of you?

It's not likely to actually happen, NSFW being the obvious catch. But it's worth thinking about.

Holy hell, did this thread really turn into "bash the user and not the idea, eventually they'll leave" in the short time I've spent typing this?
>> No. 124067
File 135197633817.png - (304.02KB , 1600x2132 , doctor_hooves___well_hello_there__by_bucketofwhales-d593v7s.png )
124067
Hi!

I'm just dropping in to weigh in with my two cents. Sadly, I haven't been on /fic/ lately (too many APs/research to be done), but I'm hoping to get my review thread back up soon.

That said, I will likely be making two versions of my review thread—one on Ponychan, and one on MLPChan. Now, keeping in mind that I'm mostly neutral (though I'm now leaning a bit toward MLPChan, both for the post-editing capabilities, and because I like Filler <3), I would like to just say that there really shouldn't be any need for personal attacks.

Finally, I appreciate the voices of those in dissent, as everyone should in an open community, but it really does appear to be a rather one-sided debate (as one look at the poll reveals; in fact, you'd expect people who'd prefer to stay to turn out in greater numbers). So I'd like to ask, if possible, what is the biggest thing that makes you dislike MLPChan? I'm' a utilitarian kind of guy, so things like "the mods are better" or "the functions are more user-friendly" (with examples, of course), will gain more traction with me, the undecided voter, than meaningless rhetoric and character assassination.

A good day to you all, and I hope to get my new thread up the moment that I get power back!

-GVeezy/GVizzle/etc.

PS: I hate Hurricane Sandy :(
>> No. 124070
I came in here to be angry about the NSFW conversation.

It's a waste of time, though. I'm going to man (mare? pony?) the Red Fic District and anyone who has a problem with its mere presence is welcome to stay away from mlpchan.
>> No. 124071
>>124065
The NSFW isn't actually a big selling point to me. I just approve of it because I know other people do have legitimate stories that they want help with, which is what /fic/ is all about, and this empowers them to do the best they can. I don't read clop, myself (I'm the guy that skipped all the "iffy" bits in Fo:E).
If Ponychan managed to match all of MLPchan's offerings, including more subjective ones like moderator response time and their ability to listen to the userbase, then where the place is doesn't really matter. In some ways, Ponychan is my Brokeback Mountain; I can't just quit it. It may have not all been sunshine and rainbows but this place has definitely shaped my character, for better or worse. I'm all for second chances but I feel like I just can't extend any more after so many letdowns. Being a /meta/ regular has left me rather jaded after seeing every cock-up close-up and personal. As I've said, things have gotten better, but it still feels like the userbase isn't being properly taken care of at times and that complaints are glossed over. I really do think !!Celestia getting a community admin would help the place.

Holy hell, did this thread really turn into "bash the user and not the idea, eventually they'll leave" in the short time I've spent typing this?
The problem was that he didn't bring any ideas to the table and constantly made arguments, many of which were born of pure conjuncture or character attacks instead of focusing on the actual facts, which were answered several times over by multiple people. Everyone's temper ran hot.
>> No. 124073
>>124048
Somepony's visited the NSFW recommendation thread on MLPchan recently~ (or is vimbert)(or both)

As far as the NSFW thread will be concerned, it will be up to the people maintaining it as to what content is never allowed, what content is acceptable under certain story circumstances, and what is plain allowed. So far, a few ponies have voiced interest in making the thread and supporting it. It'll be the whole nine yards as far as a community thread goes: an IRC channel for "real time" help, a spreadsheet and submission form (hopefully borrowed from Demetrius) for managing the queue, and a number of reviewers and maintainers for the thread.

Honestly, I see the willingness to embrace MLPchan as a good sign for /fic/. We want to test the waters and show that this can work. Maybe down the road we can truly measure our success (or failure, as the case may be) by having a thread that offers a quality service for authors and reviewers alike.

Anyone interested in joining us is welcome to do so in the IRC. We're channel #rfd on Canternet.
>> No. 124075
File 135197989746.jpg - (117.55KB , 960x639 , 134596923648.jpg )
124075
Applejinx? Kinsley? Any volunteers?

The NSFW Writer Training Grounds Queue
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuAQzDU7RlujdGRlQWNaclduSVBZMnJsRUpzQi1nSVE#gid=0
It is ready for use; I have tested the submission form and all its features are working properly. I would prefer not to own this document, so I'm waiting for someone to whom I can transfer its ownership. Go ahead and shoot me an email if you're interested.
>> No. 124076
>>124075

Good show! I'm definitely eager to lend a hand. I want to make a joke comparing authors-asking-for-reviews to virgins or maybe submissives, but it's not coming to me.

>ownership

Not it.
>> No. 124077
>>124075
Ownership would include what exactly?
>> No. 124078
I have taken a moment to be by myself, and in doing so, I have thought of a compromise that you should find fair, Ion. I have made a list of suggestions on MLPchan's /site/. If they are met, then I will concede and go along with what ever the group decides. But if they are ignored or dismissed without good reason, then I ask that you never bring up this move again. And if the MLPchan team is as good as you say they are, Ion, there shouldn't be a problem.

http://mlpchan.net/site/res/4146.html

Also, a few suggestions for the NSFW TTG:
>Have The Things We Need (the work-safe version is on EqD) be the standard of what is and isn't allowed.
>If someone posts a story that doesn't meet that standard then they should get editorial advice on how to write a better plot.
>> No. 124079
File 135198280264.png - (313.77KB , 864x804 , I'm a silly filly.png )
124079
>>124077

Permission editing rights. Whoever owns the document can decide what goes into it and who gets to seeit , edit it, or comment on it.

At least, that's how I understand Google Docs works.
>> No. 124082
File 135198421721.jpg - (82.88KB , 1300x839 , Gul-Dukat.jpg )
124082
As someone who built up two Google-Doc-based systems to make up for the extreme dearth of features in imageboards for keeping track of posts in such a way that would be useful for a community of voluntary writing assistance, and who has spent ample time maintaining both of them, I'll say that the following two native (and well-enough implemented) features of the new imageboard would make The Training Grounds and Story Idea General far easier to manage:

1. Replies displayed in post headers.
From experience, hunting for replies to posts is the single greatest headache-inducing task in maintenance of TTG. This will basically allow a maintainer to reap the necessary details from a single post and its header instead of jumping about through a massive thread when updating the queue. The same applies to Story Idea General. Ctrl-F is a wonderful tool, but having to use it for practically everything is extremely tiresome.

2. Hover-display of posts regardless of whether they're in the current document
This means that you don't have to go down a rabbit-hole of links and tabs to hunt down what you're looking for.

At a cursory glance, this thread has accumulated a lot of polarization and hostility, but one consensus has been reached: moving is an all-or-nothing deal. I think that the move should be made. There, I said it. Filler is a great mod (but I love you too, Dragomena, and /fic/ will miss you when it moves) and mlpchan's board would make management of TTG and Story Idea General less of a hassle in the long run.
>> No. 124083
>>124077
I would think it would mean you would be in charge of keeping it tidy, selecting the people to manage it so you don't have to go hunting down through the thread, and in general just be manager to the maintainers, and possibly ask Demetrius every so often to code you a new feature if he has the time. Not sure if true.

>>124078
I am going to be asking you this seriously.

Does this:
>Get some boards with topics that aren't stolen from Ponychan.
not sound to you like a good deal of passive-aggressiveness?
I mean, I guess I can get what you are talking about, but considering most imageboard have pretty much the same built (with one name or another for the different things, but even FimChan has essentially the same structure like this on and that one is older, so I presume Ponychan stole that from them?), what exactly are you asking for?

>Have The Things We Need (the work-safe version is on EqD) be the standard of what is and isn't allowed.
I haven't read the story, but I like were you are going with this. Having a sort "read this and compare" short story might do the trick as to having standards, but I'm sure you will still get hard-headed insane guys trying to stumble about.

>If someone posts a story that doesn't meet that standard then they should get editorial advice on how to write a better plot.
If you were to catch the glimpse of the threads and request of odd nature before they are deleted, you will remember /fic/ does... while laughing at you and telling you that you suck, but it still kind of does. Unless it is Lightning Hoof and his "impregnate the world" fic. Where did he go anyway?

Any, these both are good ideas.

>>124082
You heard it here first. See who can do this.
>> No. 124084
>>124083
> You heard it here first. See who can do this.
Not sure what that means.

This may just be me ranting, but I'll say to claims that the mods/devs will implement the necessary features here: words are wind.
>> No. 124085
>>124084
That being the point. There is talk of people being fast to implement on one side, and not doing so in the other. If they can manage to add a clearly good functionality site-wide in a reasonable time-frame, we can negate or support that rather hazy argument.
>> No. 124087
>>124082
1. You mean the backlinks shown next to the post number? MLPchan has those.
2. That's there too already. (Works for cross-thread links, links from the board index page, links from view-last-50-posts pages to posts that fell off that page, etc.)
>> No. 124090
File 135198703801.jpg - (420.09KB , 1600x1200 , 17fnw.jpg )
124090
>>124082
As a point of fairness, I am obligated to state that Ponychan X accomplishes both of those with the stipulation (as it is said in the document) that you have to install third-party add-ons for them.

>>124077
I am so very, very tempted to make an extremely cynical comment on this, but I shall refrain (for the time being).

>>124078
>Get some boards with topics that aren't stolen from Ponychan.
This has nothing to do with /fic/ and its capabilities and prerogative in regards to making reviews. Also, just because a board may share a name does not mean it shares the same culture. Their /oat/, for example, is a return to the /oat/ that used to exist here on Ponychan before the crackdown. The site is populated in no small amount by old Ponychanners that wished a return to the days of yore and so the retread is not only expected, it is natural. The entire demand is, frankly, petty and largely devoid of any meaningful contribution to the board's site and populace with no regard to established convention or user interest. If the people there were interested in, say, an earlier-gen board (which I know for a fact already exists or existed on another chan), then they would ask for it themselves rather then rely on someone who has freely admitted they don't know how the site works and doesn't particularly seem to care about learn how it does, either.

>Better themes
I've always been one for function over form and, as such, use the simplest of themes; Colgate for Ponychan and Pone for MLPchan. As such, I can't really sympathize but will say it's a reasonable request to make, if not demand.

>Have The Things We Need (the work-safe version is on EqD) be the standard of what is and isn't allowed.
Again, this topic is very open to interpretation and personal tastes. Even with this as the "standard" there could be plenty of waffling between interested parties. The idea of a story that's used as a guideline has been proposed before (by myself, no less), although that was in regards to a "test" story for trying out new reviewers to see how high their reading comprehension was. The two situations are not completely interchangeable but there was plenty of friction in regards to that idea since no one really likes a stone-set standard since it may infringe on their personal beliefs or somesuch.

>If someone posts a story that doesn't meet that standard then they should get editorial advice on how to write a better plot.
This already occurs and a change in that system is unlikely to happen. Again, different people handle it in different ways. I burn and, if they survive that, I help them grow from the ashes. Others are more... gentle, but again this is a thing that is open to interpretation. A precedent may be set but attempting to shove it down people's throats will only lead to conflict with none of the goals you seek.

>>124085
The problem with that is if they know their reputation is on the line, they're more likely to jump to it. An idea would be to post a similar suggestion on both sites at the same time and see which one was replied to the fastest but even then there are an infinite amount of variables that could affect the response time, from the person that can do it being at work versus the day off to site problems beyond their influence causing delays. As such, the only thing left to judge by is precedence.

>>124087
I think he was only referencing Ponychan.
>> No. 124091
>>124087
Efff, misread the post. I thought you were asking about the presence of them, which confused me a bit.
>> No. 124092
File 135198731375.jpg - (262.07KB , 1843x1192 , 135183526559.jpg )
124092
Just dropping by to say my piece; I had hoped to avoid this place altogether during my extended break, but Azu sent me an email, so I must be prudent.

I did not fill out the online survey because none of the available answers actually applied to me; I am not an active reviewer for another two weeks, I do not only review privately, I am not retired, but I do review pony fiction. I am not against the move to MLPchan, nor do I support it, but I am not neutral; I see no reason why the move should not happen, and wish you all the best of luck, but I am a loyal pony, and will choose to remain here should you all go.

That’s all I had to say. I hope you guys arrive at a good decision.
>> No. 124093
>>124073
Wasn't me, but you made me quite aware of that preference of yours. Made me wish I'd known that earlier.

Saged for complete irrelevance to the thread.
>> No. 124106
>>124093
Is this some odd pot shot you need to be an old member of here to know? And aren't you pretty much a non-member of /fic/ at this point? I mean, I haven't seen you anywhere related for ages (and it's clearly not that you don't have time for the IRC).
>> No. 124107
>>124083
>what exactly are you asking for?

>>124090
>This has nothing to do with /fic/ and its capabilities and prerogative in regards to making reviews.
As someone who discovered /fic/ from the other boards, I feel that this is incorrect. But I understand where you're coming from. The reasons why I asked is more because I wanted to be sure that MLPchan is not just trying to be "Ponychan, but..." And from !!Applejack's post I can tell that they are trying for more than that. I suppose if this move does happen and they lock Ponychan's TTG I won't object.

>I've always been one for function over form
As do I, which is why I prefer something without a background that gets in the way of the text and darker colors which use slightly less power to display. But they said I could make my own themes, so this isn't an issue.
>> No. 124108
File 135199976498.png - (190.41KB , 752x1063 , Derpy170.png )
124108
>>124083
>what exactly are you asking for?
Oops, I derped. I meant to say that I elaborated in a post in the thread I made in /site/.
>> No. 124110
File 135200070488.png - (263.32KB , 778x332 , FormulaForLove.png )
124110
All right. It seems like this topic has almost reached the conclusion of discussion. In light of recent circumstances, it would appear that the majority are in favor of the move.

With that being said, I would like to raise a point that has been brought up both in the thread and in the IRC.

Doseux has recently discussed the proposal of thread-level syndication, in which threads on Ponychan would be mirrored on MLPchan and vice versa. With that in mind, we have discussed the eventual future of the Training Grounds. This is what we have come up with:

The Training Grounds and all its future iterations will be syndicated between the two sites, with MLPchan being the new home. The TG here, when viewed, will redirect to MLPchan, where all activities will be centered.

This will likely be the case with individual reviewer threads, as syndication provides reviewers the ability to manage two places from one. There would be no need to, therefore, create a new thread in two places.

This requires that proof be made available that 1)!!Celestia is willing to assist with syndication and 2)Anonthony and !!Celestia begin preparing their respective sites for said syndication. Proof will hopefully come tomorrow of !!Celestia’s consent, if he indeed does consent to it. Anonthony has already consented to me and to Doseux his willingness to assist in syndication, and proof will be provided if need be.

However, we must take into consideration the current momentum. As I have said several times before, if we do not move soon, then we never will. In favor of the momentum, I propose that we discuss an exact date as to when we should do it. Just saying “do it and get it over with” will not help matters at all.

Keep in mind, this does not mean that everything should be moved in one day. The date should be decided with the mindset that it is a sort of deadline. “By X point in time, activities should be all finished moving to MLPchan, depending on the pace of the thread owners.”

I do suggest that whatever time is proposed will allow such threads as the TG enough time to empty their queue before the move, and for any loose ends to be tied up before then. The TG will still exist within Ponychan until syndication is completed, but we cannot lose momentum, or else, as I have said before, the move will never happen.

Thank you for your participation in the discussion. Feel free to raise any questions or concerns, or if you feel that a set time is problematic and have other suggestions for performing the move.

Cheers!

-Figments
>> No. 124111
File 135200225500.png - (3.01MB , 1980x1238 , 4901__artist-moe_landscape_background_panoramic_old-royal-castle_old-ruins.png )
124111
>>124107
Then use a theme without a background?

>>124110
I'd like to say a week from today. This will give reviewers time to lock and empty their queues before the move, so as to avoid any confused authors scratching their heads as they look around a /fic/ that suddenly has a lot more leg room. The TG will be fine until the code for the merge is ready since its queue is hosted on Gdocs.
>> No. 124113
>>124111
> code for the merge
What's that? Am I missing something? Sounds interesting.
>> No. 124114
>>124113
I'm just talking about how threads on one /fic/ will be visible on the other, similar to /all/ and other chans.
>> No. 124115
>>124113
The syndication of threads. Basically, /fic/ will be /fic/, no matter were, which sounds like the coolest thing since everything ever simply because I never heard of anything like it.
>> No. 124117
File 135200463930.png - (438.45KB , 600x600 , 169858 - artist fajeh twilight_sparkle.png )
124117
>>124111

>a week from today
>today is the 3rd
>new season of MLP:FiM begins airing on the 10th
>a week from today

I don't think it could be possible to pick a better date.
>> No. 124118
File 135200530683.jpg - (78.79KB , 621x373 , Keima+katsuragi_+one+of+the+guys+that+plays+most+games+_63afa7f6ad29a05336477aeee00b98f9.jpg )
124118
>>124117

How about two days earlier?
>> No. 124122
>>124110
Would MLPchan's TTG be viewable on Ponychan's /all/?
>> No. 124126
>>124122
Yes, assuming it's not the NSFW one you're talking about. This will allow generals to be visible on both boards without requiring doubles.
It'll be visible here on /fic/, although I suppose they might go for /all/ integration as well; why bother with just one board, eh?
>> No. 124129
everythingworkedoutbetterthanexpected.jpg
>> No. 124131
File 135201904793.png - (68.08KB , 264x254 , Screen shot 2011-11-29 at 2_37 PM 1.png )
124131
>I would think it would mean you would be in charge of keeping it tidy

hee, hee, hee... sorry :)

One thing I could do is scrap my 'novel' thread and go with an IC-reaction thread like the one here, only NSFW-friendly. That might be more useful: it seemed like a requirement of 40K publically written words before posting was mighty intimidating to many, and when you added the implication that it was about furthering cohesive storyverses? I think all the people who qualified were already busy writing chapters and didn't need to post.
>> No. 124135
>>124131
You don't have to do that. All I'd like for you to do is own the spreadsheet and dictate who gets to edit it (and that doesn't have to include you). You can give others editing permission. Heck, anyone could own the spreadsheet in place of you. It's just that I though of you first ;-)
>> No. 124149
File 135205279892.png - (46.48KB , 200x150 , 200px-EP446_Alakazam_de_Destra.png )
124149
>>124110
>>124117
>>124118

!!Celestia still hasn't weighed in on the conversation at (http://www.ponychan.net/chan/meta/res/131361.html), so I think we can go ahead and decide on a definant move date (as in, all the threads going over to MLPchan will go by that date). Since momentum is important in actually going through with the move, we can't so much afford to wait very much longer. Thursday's been suggested, and that might be fair. But what does everyone think about it? Are we ready do decide on a definite date? Are we ready to move?
>> No. 124150
File 135205317782.jpg - (97.70KB , 900x506 , god-of-conquest-mode.jpg )
124150
>>124149

I believe we are ready. The majority is in favor of the move, and in regards to syndication, If a few people wish to stay behind, they can. However, if syndication is explored and implemented, then only time will tell when Ponychan and MLPchan will have synonymous /fic/s.
>> No. 124151
>>124149
I've already moved my thread over and have been active in the Synopsis thread, so I'm to go whenever.
>> No. 124153
File 135205415980.png - (227.32KB , 477x498 , 33298 - apology artist john_joseco crying flour macro pinkamena_diane_pie pinkie_pie regret rock.png )
124153
>>124058
>Apple, meet orange.
I have to laugh for a moment before I tell you what I found funny here. (feel free to not laugh) Anonthony, the Administrator of MLPchan, is !!Applejack over there, and our own admin’s name is… Yeah, kinda lame but, I laughed.




Sweet Celestia this is a long thread!
It seems I’ve the window closed before I got here, so I hope I’m not reopening old wounds, but since it seems to have been brought up again (a fact I might not have noticed if I hadn’t spent literally eight hours straight reading this thread) I would like to request a bit of clarification on my horrendous mistake of a first post on this site. Namely: A Special Mare, and more specifically: the scene commonly referred to as foalcon. Before I make the case, please note that I am in no way attempting to defend the scene in question, as I have agreed with the opinions of the two unfortunates who happened to stumble upon it unawares, since it was brought to my attention that it should be cut from the story.

It seems to me that foalcon is being defined as purely pornographic in nature. In this light, I find it slightly unfair that the scene in question be referred to as foalcon, as it was hardly pornographic; I only threw it in as a method of making Dinky a unicorn, and capitalizing on the need for an extremely traumatic experience for young Derpy. Not to mention that I made every attempt to avoid detail for that particular scene, and pretty much skipped right over the sex part of it, and made with the mental trauma. I also received no warning or indication that this was a mistake, other than Minty’s rejection of it, and that only after the ban had already happened. It was an easy scene to replace, and it would have been nice if somepony had just told me so that I could fix it and prevent the ramifications that I am feeling for it to this day.

I’ve said in the past that it was all my fault because I hadn’t read the rules yet at the time, but further knowledge of them—namely that things supposedly don’t just get insta-banned unless the poster is clearly just causing trouble—that now leads me to puzzle over this past incident continuously. I am basically looking for some explanation, and some closure on one thing. Was it simply handled poorly, or was there some sort of justification as to why it was insta-banned without warning or explanation?
>> No. 124157
File 135205500172.jpg - (88.94KB , 500x683 , wtf-photos-videos-funny-face-from-hell.jpg )
124157
>>124153
You're expected to have read the global rules. Ignorance of the law is not exemption from it. Plus, the sticky also explained that porn wasn't allowed, so twice you failed to heed the warnings already in place. Next, Ponychan has always been hard on porn, not just because !!Celestia finds it distasteful but also because it goes against their host's rules and if they didn't take care of it the site could be penalized or even shut down. The fact that your subject matter concerned a young character being (from what I've gathered) raped made it even more pronounced. Finally, it was your first post, as you said. There was no precedent for you, no record; for all intents and purposes you could have been someone dumping a filly rape story on the site.

In the end, all of these factors came together and resulted in a ban (which wasn't even particularly long, correct?). Frankly, you should be glad that's all it was since I'm sure there's no shortage of pony forums that would have perma-banned you on the spot.

So no, it wasn't handled poorly (in my opinion, since my thoughts aren't official in the least). They did their job, which only resulted due to you failing yours (learning the lay of the land or, as chans like to say, lurk moar).
>> No. 124159
File 135205535510.png - (511.26KB , 594x900 , 134078065155.png )
124159
>>124157
Exactly as expected from Ion. I hope others respond, but thank *you*, at least.
>> No. 124160
File 135205552751.png - (73.20KB , 125x125 , 132631965934.png )
124160
>>124159
>>124157
And no. It wasn't particularly long. The first one was for an hour, which I never noticed or knew the reason for, as it happened while I was at school, and the second one was for a day, which linked to a deleted post for it's reasoning.
>> No. 124161
File 135205585707.jpg - (10.53KB , 160x120 , Nreh__.jpg )
124161
>>124153
>Yeah, kinda lame but, I laughed.
Well, they’re both fruitcakes anyway. =S

>Sweet Celestia this is a long thread!
You’ve got that right. Word-count wise, it’s around 41-45k words. When all’s said and down, this should enshrined on /arch/ so that all the parasprites from the other boards may look up in wonder at what the great A/fic/ionados had done and what they can accomplish. We don’t just talk; we write novels. That sounds a bit too sappy, though.

>Was it simply handled poorly, or was there some sort of justification as to why it was insta-banned without warning or explanation?
I was neither there, nor do I know enough about Ponychan’s moderation guidelines to properly comment on this. Though, it might have just been an off day for one of the mods and they over-reacted. Personally, I don’t believe this to be an issue we'll need to worry about. /fic/ is self-policing (as it should be) and !!Spike should know when and how to step in if the need arises.
>> No. 124162
>>124161
Drama on /fic/, where the users manage to practice their writing to such an extent that we consume as much bandwidth in text as most users will with images.
>> No. 124163
File 135205629630.jpg - (245.89KB , 2048x1195 , YmplQ.jpg )
124163
>>124162
I do both!
>> No. 124167
File 135205757066.png - (99.45KB , 307x350 , Twilight131673037155.png )
124167
>>124153
>I only threw it in as a method of making Dinky a unicorn,
>mfw
>> No. 124168
File 135205932387.png - (522.06KB , 826x594 , i_tried__i_really_tried__i__m_so_sorry__by_crenair-d5dprks.png )
124168
So, I'm not really sure if this is done, though one side seems to be claiming it is. Either way, even though I know it wont sway anyone, I'm going to point out a few things.

1) Movement is an individual choice. Whether or not we held a vote (we didn't) the results of that vote wouldn't force anyone to move boards. It is purely their choice. Thus, some people are going to stay and some are going to go. There will be a majority one way, but it won't be overwhelmingly large.

2) All communities have a minimum for active members otherwise they die. This is true of societies (think small villages directly post-Neolithic Revolution) and with /fic/. Like it or not, if we get too few people, /fic/ will die. It won't be quick, it will barely be noticeable, but it will happen. I don't pretend to know exactly where that number is, but that brings me to number three...

3) It is my hypothesis that dividing /fic/ this way ("democratically" or trying to force it) will result in two fractured, and smaller communities. There are several assumptions in what I will say next, so I will lay them out. First, there will be a minor or major enmity between the boards over who did/didn't move and resentment between. Second, the only linking factor is The Training Grounds Spreadsheet, which for all intents and purposes lies outside of any board (there is possibility for it to be self sufficient, with reviews being in document or in pastebin, but I digress). Third, the prereaders would have to take some sort of stance (ponychan, mlpchan, or both) which drives traffic and potential new blood to the board as is. Now, I don't think it is any secret that /fic/ is not exactly a board with an amazing amount of activity. However, picture the current activity halved. It is my hypothesis that such a division would kill not only ponychan's /fic/ board, but mlpchan's as well.

So there we have my thoughts detailing the effect on the community. Now, it is obvious that MLPchan has better technical features. However, I want you to ask yourself, is the reward of editing posts and replies showing up (both available with ponychan x I believe) worth the risk of fracturing and destroying the reviewing community? Think on that for a bit.
>> No. 124169
File 135205951793.png - (76.34KB , 269x241 , Ref 3.png )
124169
>>124162
Hear, Hear!
>> No. 124171
>>124168
Well, the board isn't going to be "split in half" since the vast majority are for the move. Then there's how the boards will still be inter-linked if the cross-thread system becomes a thing. EqD and the pre-readers (according to Cassius) have already announced they will support the place that is most capable, which will most likely be MLPchan at this rate, so fresh blood won't be divvied up between the boards either.
>> No. 124172
File 135206040068.png - (203.73KB , 417x316 , Luana_Alakazam_Reflect.png )
124172
>>124168
Which is the whole point of pushing for syndication. (http://www.ponychan.net/chan/meta/res/131361.html?) A syndicated /fic/ would mean a healthier /fic/, without sacrificing the benefits of either board, while at the same time promoting personal preference and, subsequently, board improvement. If !!Celestia doesn't want syndication, which I and several others feel to be the best solution to our problems, we know we’ll just slog through another couple of months and months and months—maybe even years—until a new opportunity arises. By that time, if we couldn't take this opportunity now, how can we trust ourselves or our posterity to take an even better one then?
>> No. 124174
>>124162
Actually, you can write 5+ pages of text and it still won't be as much data as an image.
>> No. 124184
File 135206170021.jpg - (14.60KB , 191x300 , buzz_killington[1].jpg )
124184
>>124174
>> No. 124186
>>124174
My dearest Anon,

There is little concept called "hyperbole" in the English language. It is often also know as "exaggeration" (though hyperbole tends to be more in reference to literature and the written language while exaggeration is meant for the spoken word) and naturally refers to the idea of making an outlandish statement of far grander proportions than the original intent to make a point or bring to light a specific idea about a topic.

In this case, I was pointing out the fact that /fic/ users often have very large text posts without images (though some of us do use images with our posts) and that whenever there is drama on this board, we often feel the need to speak up and at great length, thus posting more often and therefore using more bandwidth.

I also invite you to be intimate with a cactus at your earliest convenience.

Sincerely,
JKinsley
>> No. 124187
>>124186
Thank you for educating me, I do appreciate it. So few take the time these days.

Cacti are indeed my fetish! How did you know?
>> No. 124188
File 135206255900.png - (120.65KB , 560x826 , I'm laughing so hard right now.png )
124188
>>124186
>I also invite you to be intimate with a cactus at your earliest convenience.
>> No. 124192
File 135206402479.jpg - (76.29KB , 650x436 , have-you-ever-been-this-angry[1].jpg )
124192
>>124186
>> No. 124263
File 135211756923.jpg - (11.96KB , 160x120 , Twirling Spoons.jpg )
124263
Bump because /fic/ is being overrun with old threads.

>>124150
And if we have a definitive date, someone should post that in big bold letters... maybe even sparkling.
>> No. 124268
>>124263
I believe we settled on two days before season 3 airs. Again, a deadline, not the day...
>> No. 124293
>>124135

Oh hey, you just want to give someone ownership rights so that they can be the one handing out editing permissions?

I can do that. I can even do some maintaining work, maybe--I just didn't want to be automatically seen as The Maintainer Guy.

So yes: I volunteer to be handed the job of corralling ponies into the NSFW TTG staff. My email is in the email field.
>> No. 124319
File 135217181288.png - (1.18MB , 1280x720 , keima-glasses-prop.png )
124319
All right, since it seems we have reached our decision, let it be known that

THE MOVE "DEADLINE" IS THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 8TH

Keep an eye out in the coming days for news of syndication.

If anyone wishes to contest this, please raise your concerns.

Cheers!

-Figments
>> No. 124359
>>124319
See ya around. We'll be here.
>> No. 124389
File 135226753451.jpg - (54.71KB , 600x594 , blapple.jpg )
124389
>>124168
>> No. 124408
File 135229496801.jpg - (15.92KB , 220x277 , Peck.jpg )
124408
A resolution has been proposed at >>/meta/131618

If you wish any amendments be made to this resolution, voice your concerns there.
>> No. 124410
File 135229537599.jpg - (215.42KB , 732x739 , hakase_happy.jpg )
124410
>>124408
Yes, this is good. Thank you kindly, dolfeus; much appreciated. I back this resolution.
>> No. 124415
File 135230666962.png - (25.21KB , 331x361 , Sum_Pony_looks_back.png )
124415
>>124168
Where is Ponychan-X? I can't seem to find its thread on /meta/ these days, but have been meaning to give it a try.

All things considered, moving to another board amounts to nothing more than a minor change of habit. It's not like we have to re-register or anything to post on a different imageboard, and tripcodes work the same way in either place (except that tripcodes with ampersands actually work properly on tinyboard). I'm finally to the point of checking mlpchan first and then ponychan (or only mlpchan). If everyone expended the small amount of effort to do this, community fracturing wouldn't even figure in.

Also, it doesn't seem like we have much in common or much interaction with other boards around here on ponychan excepting the occasional transplant thread/poster from /oat/, so if /fic/ completely disappeared from ponychan but still existed somewhere else (and it was made clear and obvious where it went, so that people could find their way there if they wanted) it probably wouldn't make much difference. Thus, technical differences aside, the only things that are 100% exclusive to either board are the (1) The rules; (2) The staff; (3) The URL / domain name. Is anyone staying here for one or more of those reasons?
>> No. 124416
>>124415
>ponychan x
Oh wait, found it.
>> No. 124430
File 135232791938.png - (224.71KB , 698x1143 )
124430
Since I know that plenty of people don't read /meta/, I thought I might update everyone here on where things stand from our end.

For those of you who wish to continue posting here, we've recently been made aware that post editing and collapsible spoilers are things that you'd find valuable. Therefore we have implemented those features. You're welcome to request others you may find useful at any time in >>>/meta/.

Post editing is now enabled for /fic/ (and several other boards). You should see an Edit link next to Reply and Report in the bottom-right-hand-corner of posts you've made on the same machine as of a couple of days ago. This will open an in-line editing box in which you can make changes.

Collapsible "spoilers" are enabled using the syntax [hide]some text[/hide]. This hides large bodies of text until the Show button is clicked. For example:
`Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe.

"Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
The frumious Bandersnatch!"

He took his vorpal sword in hand:
Long time the manxome foe he sought --
So rested he by the Tumtum tree,
And stood awhile in thought.

And, as in uffish thought he stood,
The Jabberwock, with eyes of flame,
Came whiffling through the tulgey wood,
And burbled as it came!

One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back.

"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.

If you are interested in keeping up with threads on MLPchan, we are open to the possibility of syndication in order to aid the unity of the community, subject to the opening of communications and an appropriate agreement between the admins of the two sites (>>/meta/131558).

We remain committed to supporting the /fic/ community and hope that these improvements will prove useful to those on the board in the future.
>> No. 124443
>>124430
Awesome! Thanks, !!Lyra and crew.
>> No. 124447
>>124430
The sliding thing is a nice touch.
>> No. 124452
File 135235522716.jpg - (457.14KB , 2048x1152 , Y9ml7.jpg )
124452
>>124430
Some fine use of jQuery there. Is the post editing a Kusaba plugin of some sort, or was it a custom-built feature? Either way, thanks; it has been a long time coming, and now ponychan will have far fewer broken reply links that result from deleting/reposting.

The silly thing about waiting to move is that the longer it is contested and drawn out, the longer the mods have to implement features. So far it looks like the ones Ion-Sturm asked for are now here, finally.
>> No. 124454
>>124452
Certainly can't complain about them being introduced.
>> No. 124457
>Is the post editing a Kusaba plugin of some sort, or was it a custom-built feature?

It was a custom-built feature, made by our very own !!Lyra.
>> No. 124459
File 135236330346.jpg - (131.33KB , 901x597 )
124459
>>124457
Well, in part... I wrote some of the PHP side. !!Celestia wrote all the jQuery.
>> No. 124474
>>124459
Brilliant! Thanks for the work you put into it!
>> No. 124814
File 135327163927.jpg - (46.17KB , 462x462 , 9842341_gal.jpg )
124814
I apologize for dredging this thread back up after it almost found peace in the gloom of /fic/’s ancient wastelands. There is still a shred of life left in it, though, and I don’t know where else to put this particular announcement.

Not all of you check /meta/, so I’ve come here to link to >>/meta/132217 and >>/meta/132241

The long and short of it is that I’m taking a survey to see what the /fic/ community thinks of syndication. As syndication would affect all users who use /fic/ on either site, all a/fic/ionados are welcome (and encouraged) to take it.

The survey can be found at http://derpy.me/DTuGP and the results at http://derpy.me/KsA-Q

Thank you all for your time.
>> No. 124815
>>124814
Will say what I said there: /fic/ is clearly trying to become part wholesale of MLPchan and trying to cling to them for whatever sake seems dumb.

Instead, I say focus on making /all/ better so it can actually benefit people in Ponychan and forget this whole dreary business/people.

Can't say I have too much of a duck to cook here, but maybe this will make it more noticeable to the mods.
>> No. 124825
File 135333968034.png - (1.63MB , 2000x2000 , 132725576181.png )
124825
>>124814
Though I am once again an active member of /fic/, I am still regaining my hooves and am yet unable to provide a proper evaluation of 'syndication vs. not'. I will return in a few days with an answer if I can.
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