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38631 No. 38631
Old one auto-saged, so here we go again!
This is the official discussion of "The Sun is Tired," a fanfic I wrote.
It's sort of a deconstruction of trollestia, and sort of my idea of what is going on in the show. Or, at least, the premise is.
I might post parts early, I might not. This is the easiest way to contact me, so go ahead and post. Also, fanart and other things like that make me a very happy author, and get you every single link early. But only do it if you actually like the story.
Unspoiler all text  • Expand all images  • Reveal spoilers
>> No. 38634
Wait, why can't I hate the story and still make useful comments? I hate every single thing I have read here but I always give useful comments, so why not this story too?

Also, my level of hate of this fic is only 3, so you are doing something right here!!!!
>> No. 38641
I meant "Only make fanart." I don't want people to make fanart just to get early links to post.
>> No. 38646
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Suuuuu... I get the idea that the author's portrayal of Celestia is a mortal mind trapped in the body of a Goddess?

Don't think I agree with the idea.

Not quite sure how that owl is burning either. She's not raising the sun, right? what is being focused through the lens, moonlight? Is Luna taking up the slack instead?

I have reservations about the pacing and length as well, but I think I should wait until its finished before I can say anything objective.
>> No. 38648
She's raising the sun...
>> No. 38650
I'm sorry dude, but I have to seriously ask if you have read the story or just went and went with hearsay?

Cause it sounds like you went with the hearsay....
>> No. 38656
Read the whole thing, why?
>> No. 38658
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>> No. 38659
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>> No. 38662

Okay, here we go. In chapter ten between her falling asleep and waking we have that little cult of celestia (oh lol the irony) thing. I assume now the intention was that the sun was implied to rise then. I just didn't take the implication.

Given her state of mind, I was assuming that unless explicitly stated it would remain night. If something I'd normally assume (like a sunrise in the morning) is explicitly refuted in a work, I stop assuming for all further instances of the previous assumption. I see you're trying to imply it now, yes, but still...

it's not like I haven't eaten cereal in the dark before.
>> No. 38665
I... err... finally got around to sitting down and reading this.

And I was surprised how OOC all the characters were. And I'm only at Chapter 2. Hm.

Continuing my read.
>> No. 38673
Might I ask how they are out of character? I've gotten people say "Wow, spot-on to the show, great job!" and some saying "This is incredibly out of character."
At this point, I need someone to explain how I am failing in my writing, if I truly am at all.
>> No. 38679
It's the whole fear thing actually. I just can't envision ponies to be so fearful of their monarch and still be able to function somewhat normally. Plus the show didn't depict them to be THAT scared of Celestia when she stopped by. Sure she had ponies bowing to her and all, but apart from that they talked to each other normally. Even laughed together. (During Bird in the Hoof)

Your writing is good, mind, and in the context of your fic, they make perfect sense. They just don't mesh with canon personalities.
>> No. 38681
That is... sorta true, I guess.
I never tried to create a show episode, just more of a "What if..." type thing.
>> No. 38686
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Och, just read the mobbing thing. Dear lord that's like out of the left field.

Okay, I think I'll stop here and process the story for a bit. Not my cup of tea I'm afraid. (I prefer light-hearted comedies to be honest, so don't take it as a criticism.)
>> No. 38687

It's never so much as a failure in writing as it is a disagreeance in what someone versus someone else sees in writing. I don't see it as terribly in character either.

Grimdark in general can run against the grains; A legitimate interpretation for 'what we don't see' on camera, but one has to admit it's very much against what appears to be the show's intent. We never see truly criminal acts, so when a pegasus goes and forms a lynch mob, there's always going to be a section of the readership that won't buy it.

That doesn't mean you need to change, but you do need to write with an eye of making that mental sale.
>> No. 38689
Head the Grimdark tag! It is there for a reason.
>> No. 38690

Heh, but I'll admit, I am curious to see how you will conclude this. Will be reading more later.
>> No. 38705
Mask, I have a catalogue of thing to say about this, but I don't do unsolicited reviews.

However, I'm compelled to comment as our stories play along a similar thematic foundation- that is, we are throwing characters into an arena of some pretty serious "what if this happened when" pathos. I think the OOC complaints you're receiving are largely because you failed to establish a point of divergence, setting the stage for plausibility and the suspension of expectations. With Celly, that would be a markedly difficult thing to do, but it really is a necessary device.

So then, I picked this up a long time ago, when the first few chapters came out, and was initially intrigued. I let it fall to the wayside for reasons I can't quite recall at the moment, but picked it back up recently, and finished up to your latest update.

As for specific OOC concerns, I have to say I heavily agree, ONLY in the realm of how you handle Celestia.
My take-
We are talking about a semi-divine being (not sure if you're full-on goddess with her), who has dealt with the stresses of not only immortality, but monarchy, for thousands of years. Now you've built up a scenario with adept skill where-in the pressure just GETS her. It's like a massive dam being released. But in your last chapter, you take her vast experience, and toss it out the window. She can't even make a speech and is reaching levels of incompetency that I almost expect her to start wetting the bed.

Please note that I read through this casually, and am just giving my thoughts as a reader, not an in-depth analysis.

Regardless, I will certainly be following updates. Much respect to ya Mask.
>> No. 38707
Hm. Interesting.
(Might I say you're a damn sight more helpful then every single comment on equestria daily?)
I agree, a bit: The speech wasn't my best work. I should have written it more like "She knows exactly what to do, she just makes occasional slip-ups that ruin everything."
I would re-write it, but that seems to be frowned upon one a part is published...
>> No. 38713
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>Eqd comments

Seriously Mask, we have like... what, 5 separate reviewer threads going? Any of us would be glad to help you out, and further, how are we to improve as writers without the critique of our peers?
>> No. 38716
Actually, there are seven:

>the samurai's

so yeah.... reviewer abound here.
>> No. 38741
>> No. 38767
I don't get saging... but ok whatever.
>> No. 38795
Sometimes the internet makes me weep for the intelligence of humanity.

Its obviously a what-if kind of story. Trollestia isn't canon, its something that fans created to give a perfect character flaws. If anything, Celestia enjoys a good prank (Like most ponies), but nothing malicious. A fic like this by default is not meant to be read as canon. Therefore, the supposed OOCness for Celestia doesn't bother me that much.

She is not, however, acting like someone who's known for a while that she's hated and feared by all. She's acting like Canon Celestia only just learning that all fear her. She's panicking.

There are a few issues that persist despite this new view of the story. For one, yes, Celestia should have been a little more confident in her speech. You could play it off like she's suffering from a breakdown brought on by a combination of guilt from killing Snowflake, fear from her vivid dream, and more guilt from Rainbow and Fluttershy getting hurt so badly.

I can assume that in the many years of her reign, it has rarely ever reached this level of a crisis point for her. Could it be that the cultists have recently stepped up their game in the last ten years or so, prompting these extreme reactions from everypony she meets? I just can't see Equestria living a thousand years in absolute fear without her getting bothered by it until now.

For another, the cult. I posted as >>38589 in your prior thread, and explained why I think other readers had heartburn over it. Put simply, you just need to expand on the cult, make it a real and credible threat, and show that its been responsible for all the from the beginning. Also, give a very good reason or reasons for why it hasn't been detected up to this point by Celestia or anyone else in power. Perhaps the leading members of the cult are powerful government officials who cultivate the atmosphere of fear for their own personal agendas?

I'll be clear here: I want this fic to succeed when all's said and done. I'd be happy to help in any way I can.
>> No. 38821
>Google "The Sun is Tired"
>See this: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Fanfic/TheSunIsTired
Seriously, this is possibly the highest honor I could get.
>> No. 38848
All the more reason to keep writing. You can't stop now :-)
>> No. 38893
Yeah, I know.
>> No. 39956
Okay, writing part 11, and I have almost everything down.

Except if Night Oil believes what he's saying or not.

The outcome is going to be the same either way, but I'm uncertain of which path to take.
>> No. 39977
The way you wrote part 10 had me with the impression that he was doing it out of a lust for power, not fanaticism.
>> No. 39978
I was thinking the same way, except he doesn't want power. He wants revenge.

That line makes perfect sense with his current backstory, trust me.
>> No. 39979
And somehow that makes it even worse D: I love it.
>> No. 40510
Okay, so, we have some concrete backstory for night oil! Complete with disturbing imagery!
Now, to write it...
Don't worry, there's plenty of other characters in 11 as well.
>> No. 41398
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How's our favorite pegasi duo doing?
>> No. 41441
If you find some way of improving the story, you should go for. So what if it's frowned upon? If the story gets better as a result, history shall vindicate you!!

Looking forward to the next update!
>> No. 41486
I actually am trying to think of the best way to revise bits of it at the moment.
>> No. 41502
Personally, I work best with a buffer of a few chapters. Sometimes I get better ideas as I write future chapters, and a buffer lets me go back and foreshadow things better/alter scenes around. Also, it gives me a long beta period with which to improve the story before it gets posted.

(I'm not writing any MLP fics - yet - but I do have a bit of a long-runner type Disgaea fic over the past year that's gotten pretty popular. We're TV Tropes page buddies! XD It really is the best feeling, isn't it?)

I posted my thoughts on the story over on the ED page a while back, but you've probably heard it before.

And in case I didn't get the message across then, I am LOVING this story. It's a brave and original premise, and I'm relieved to hear it's only a quarter way through because it gives me a better idea on the timeframe you're working with. I expected it to be about 10-15 chapters long when I first started reading it, but learning that it's much longer helps put your reasoning in perspective for me, being the author of a long fic myself.

I really am looking forward to the next one, good luck!
>> No. 41503
It actually was going to be shorter, but I realized the only way to give a good ending involved a lot more length then I thought. On the plus side, things are planned pretty far in advance in my head, so that's nice.

Thanks for the compliments, BTW.
>> No. 41612
>It actually was going to be shorter

Oh lord how I can relate to THAT.
>> No. 42336
Gah, I've hit writer's block HARD
I know what to do with Night Oil, but I need to get in some more Celestia/Mane 6 scenes before I do that for the pacing to be right, and I have no idea of what to do. And school is eating my time to write as it is...
>> No. 42342
First of all, don't panic.

Secondly, relax. Think it over. There's nothing keeping you chained to writing this all the time.

Hop onto the IRC sometime, we can go over this if you want.
>> No. 42343
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What sort of development are you aiming for? I'm good at helping to flesh out ideas, so lets hear the problem!
>> No. 42345
I have the entire Night Oil backstory planned, but I have no idea how to get into it. I know I need a lot more Celestia scenes, but I have no idea where to go. Back to the hospital? Have some more Luna? Celestia and Twilight's relationship growing further away from teacher/student and farther into friendship?

Sorry about that outburst...
>> No. 42351
Damn. ;P

Well, I'd love to see a Celestia and Twilight friendship scene or two.

What the fic really needs is for the cult to start interacting in some way with the mane characters.

Thoughts: After a scene or so with Celestia, Twilight starts to wonder WHY everyone is so fearful of Celestia, so she goes off and does some investigations?

Another thing we need to see is the hospital. Rainbow in physical therapy, perhaps, determined to be back in the air in ten-seconds flat? Stranger things have happened - Google Morris 'Miracle Man' Goodman.
>> No. 42352
Damn. ;P

Well, I'd love to see a Celestia and Twilight friendship scene or two.

What the fic really needs is for the cult to start interacting in some way with the mane characters.

Thoughts: After a scene or so with Celestia, Twilight starts to wonder WHY everyone is so fearful of Celestia, so she goes off and does some investigations?

Another thing we need to see is the hospital. Rainbow in physical therapy, perhaps, determined to be back in the air in ten-seconds flat? Stranger things have happened - Google Morris 'Miracle Man' Goodman.
>> No. 42353
Double checking that Goodman stuff, the info is vague. Sorry about that.

Basically, he apparently did crazy stuff like forcing himself to use his lungs by dragging deep breaths over and over for months, and flexing his fingers and toes as much as he could. Eventually he basically encouraged his body to put itself back together, and this was after having barely survived getting mangled after a plane crash.

I'd say Dash could match him in sheer stubborn will, don't you?
>> No. 42483
Some Celestia / Twilight scenes would give some perspecitve on where they are at, and since Twi is a problem solver, it would be a chance to see the characters trying to improve the situation. Even if they can't do much, any small victories are nice.

I'm also curious to know how the injured ponies are- Does Twi plan to use the restorative effects of the element of harmony?

In the longer term, I could certainly see Twi researching the cult the instant she gets even a whisper of their existence. If there is anything to find, Twilight is the pony to dig it up.
>> No. 43670
Bumping. How's the next chapter coming? I need my fix :-)
>> No. 43679
After Celestia has comforted and guided Twilight all those years, it is time for the tables to turn and for Twilight to comfort Celestia.
>> No. 43731
Brushie brushie?
>> No. 44340
A wild hectic week appears!
MaskOfData becomes paralyzed! He can't write!

But yeah, not going to be able to do anything this week, most likely. But you shall get an update sometime in 30 days.
Hopefully in 10.
>> No. 45637
I'm going to attempt to write in there. Hopefully, this works...
>> No. 45641
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>> No. 45698
Gah, writer's block.

I'm going to try and play a few minute of the original Dues Ex as a break. I just can't think of what to say...
>> No. 45706
And now I'm back.
>> No. 45820
So glad to hear that. It's always bad when a great story doesn't get continued anymore.
>> No. 45821
Past Sins is ended, Mask. The only things preventing me from nagging you like a bastard now are Of Mares and Magic & Crisis: Equestria
>> No. 46233
>> No. 46234
>> No. 46676
Just going to let you all know:

I have a lot on my plate right now, and there is a very high chance that I won't be able to work on this as much as I used to. Updates may come once a month, or longer.
I'm sorry.
>> No. 46738
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It's okay, we understand. Take your time, but don't abandon the story. Finish it some day.
>> No. 52009
So, er- I haven't been around for a while...

Sorry about that! But anyway: I think I'm going to re-write everything from 8 onwards. I'm not getting rid of the cult, since I like that idea, but I think it was introduced in a horrible way. So... Any objections to my plan?
>> No. 52010
As someone who liked the original idea of deconstructing Tyralestia (Tyrantlestia? Tylestia? Something.), I thought the cult was a random ninety degree turn plot-wise, turning it from an idea fic to an action fic. Ultimately, you're the author and I think you should do what you think is best, but if it's just a cult for the sake of having action, then I think the story would take a turn for the worse.

Then again, I haven't read this in well over a couple months, so my memory could be more than hazy.
>> No. 52011
Considering we haven't seen anything from you in such a long time, and how the cult thing was receive, I think re-writing it shouldn't be an issue, particularly with the new people coming in.
>> No. 52026
Well, my plan for the cult involves no action - There's never going to be any fight scenes or adventure. That's actually one reason why I would like to re-write it, since it comes off as far too action-ey for my taste. The cult is going to be resolved by intellect alone, not physical violence.

Does that make any sense?
>> No. 52028
If my comparison makes any sense, then who is going to be your L?
>> No. 52029
Er... The only L I know of is "Mr. L" from Super Paper Mario, who I doubt you're referring too...

Wait, isn't there someone in Death Note named L? I wouldn't know, since I haven't seen it...
>InB4 People yell at me to watch it
>> No. 52031
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But yes, deathnote has death of people and the sort, but the actual fight is one of intellects as both sides try to figure who is who, what is what and why are people dying.

Which sounds like what you are about to do, but with less japanese demons.
>> No. 52032
Yes, it's something like that. SPOILERS:
Twilight was going to go out and do some research, eventually discovering the cult. From there, it's a secret, but I can insure you that there are no actual physical fights.
>> No. 52034
I will disagree with that statement and say a fight here and there wouldn't kill the story (it didn't for death note) and sometimes they are neccesary.

That being said, no Tolkienesque combats would be nice. And the ninja action was kinda cool.
>> No. 52036
Really? Because most people hated the ninja bit...
>> No. 52042
guess I'm not most people?
I just know I found interesting.
>> No. 52044
Hm... I know I'll keep some of those, but probably play them down a bit.

And make sure the words "knife in hoof" never appear. Ever.
>> No. 58929
fic dead? :(
>> No. 59328
I highly doubt it. He already said updates may be slow and now he's rewriting the last couple chapters so just be patient.
>> No. 59329
Please stop bumping. If he has something to post MofD will bump.
>> No. 60929
Okay then, inb4 thread 3
>> No. 63220
So, it's not dead. It will return. But I'm having a horrible case of writer's block, combined with a lack of motivation... I dunno. There will probably be updates, but I'm unsure...
>> No. 68604
Quote from TVTropes
>Hasn't been updated in over three months, so is likely abandoned.

Hath thou forsaken us, O Great Mask of Data? Dost sayeth itis not so!
>> No. 68636
Looking forward to whenever the next chapter comes. Just spend a few minutes each day to churn out at least 200 words and consider it an accomplishment (because hey, 200 more words than when you started out!), and eventually you'll find a resolution to your Writers Block.
>> No. 69348
Well, since this thread will be dead soon, I guess I should say this. Mask, this was second fic I ever read, the first one being another by you, and it probably kept me on Ponychan long enough to make some ties with people on other boards as well as keep me watching the show.

So, cheers, I guess? Is that something to be glad about? I dunno.
>> No. 69359
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Silly fandom, three months is nothing.

Children of an Elder God (Lovecraft/Eva fic) took seven years to finish more or less. 24 chapters. 7 years.

Three months is quite literally, nothing.
Change of Heart (Mario fanfic) is up to chapter 50, having started in March of 2006, the latest chapter having been put out February of 2011.
>> No. 71311
i miss you op will you ever come back?
>> No. 71494
YEAH! You all hear that?! Three months is nothing *cough*
>> No. 71938
File 132400914215.png - (1.62MB , 1440x900 , Rainbow Cutie Mark.png )

That's right folks, there's going to be an update sometime this week.
>> No. 71942
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>> No. 72146
File 132407128449.jpg - (15.79KB , 293x391 , roger-ebert-2.jpg )
In other news, I am in desperate need of proofreaders.

Who's up for it?
>> No. 72171
If no one else is up for it, I am.
>> No. 72172
Awesome. Drop me an email.

[email protected]
>> No. 72176
I'd love to!
>> No. 72179
See the above post and drop me an email.
>> No. 72181
Just did.
>> No. 72182
Awesome, thanks.
>> No. 72221
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Hell, 8-bit theater ran almost 10 years.
>> No. 72276
Oh man I can't wait, personally I'd like to see how the general population treats Twilight and the rest of the mane cast now that the Celestia cult has officially deemed them almost as important as the princess. Also after the owl scene I can imagine the night guard getting some shit from the others.
>> No. 72290
Uh- I actually retcon'd the cult due to the fact that I had no idea where I was going with it. On the plus side, the new direction is planned out all the way until the end, which will be bittersweet... So hopefully that works.
>> No. 72315
Really? Oh well that would still be a valid point. After all princess Celestia makes no secret of her friendship with the elements of harmony so it wouldn't be too far-fetched that everypony would start being extra special careful how they treat them too.
>> No. 72355

I suppose this is as good a place as any to ask. I was following chapter updates back when you were still updating semi-regularly, and I'll probably pick up the new chapter when it comes out. How much have you retconned, and how far back am I going to have to re-read to pick up the changes?
>> No. 72374
Basically, everything after the nightmare scene is completely different. So it's not really re-reading, as almost nothing happens the same. But yeah, 1/2 of chapter 8, as well as chapters 9 and 10, are different.
>> No. 72404
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I liked the story enough in the beginning to read most of it. I do write a bit myself but I haven't reviewed other people's work before in a long time. So unless you mind that I would like to give a shot.
>> No. 72453
Drop me an email!
>> No. 72528

Okay, thanks. I'll be keeping an eye open for the update.
>> No. 74365
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Hollow... empty... lies...
>> No. 74980
File 132522933953.png - (53.94KB , 404x479 , celestiawhy.png )
What >>74365 said.
>> No. 75240
>That feel when you were going to update, but then all the sudden your schedule was packed and you couldn't

Well, damn. I'll get it done ASAP.

>InB4 Duke Nukem Forever jokes
>> No. 75282
Duke Nukem Forever came out recently; I played it.
It was fucking dissapoint.
>> No. 75284
Hopefully my fanfic won't disappoint
>InB4 it does
>> No. 75289
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Honestly, I think "When Mega Man Gets a new, non-collection, non-remake game" would be closer to the impression of never. You know, since Keiji Inafune left and all, it's pretty much damned to the pits of gaming hell, to be only a memory preserved by Zero in the Capcom Vs _______ series of fighters from now until eternity.
>> No. 88564
It's over.

Final part:

>> No. 88576
> It's over.
*spit take*

Off to read.
>> No. 88577
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Honestly can't say I ever expected it.
Good on you, Mask. Does this mean you'll be resuming your review thread, or are you taking a breather?
>> No. 88580
Would you mind another author writing on their own?.
>> No. 88584
Umm... Surly does not equal Surely

Bummer ending. Not bad, not unexpected either. I guess you got tired too, didn't you? Well, best of luck with everything you do.

But I didn't open the youtube links either, so...
>> No. 88605
I guess you can say...

The Author is Tired.


But in all seriousness, I simultaneously understand and empathize with the fatigue that comes from writing a long story. I respect your decision to at least END the story instead of letting it rot, and I wish you the best on all of your future endeavors.
>> No. 88615
>Wants to end story
>Ends with sequel hook
>> No. 88628
Well damn. Not fond of how it ends but it actually fits decently with where the story was headed so I can go with it.

I'm glad you gave it an actual ending before moving on, it's horrible when stories just get abandoned without any closure or explanation from the author.
>> No. 88635
Thank you for finishing it. TSIT was among the first fanfics I read and the one I liked most. I admit that I forgot its existence already. Then I saw the update on EqD... I chcecked my fanfic folder, "TheSunisTiredPart8.5 CelestiasNightmareHyperMode.pdf" is dated July 2 2011.

Oh no... Dashie & Flutters got beaten up :-(
>> No. 88640
Not at all. You could probably do it better then I could.

I might resume the review thread in a week or so. I dunno. It depends on my mood.
>> No. 88644
I am most likely going to not write a sequel.

>> No. 88669
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>> No. 88708
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It struck me as odd that Mask wasn't using his trip, and I was a little worried that it was fake, but the ending given fit so well, that I really didn't give it a second thought after reading it.
Maybe I'm insane that way.
>> No. 88709
I think this was the tripcode... Not sure.
>> No. 88712
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You got it.
>> No. 88731
Also, in other news...

If you look for my deviant art, there will be a non-pony-related short story up on there sometime today.

So check that out.
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