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44228 No. 44228
This thread will be deleted within 2-3 days

Well, as most some of you know, Past Sins will drop off in my email soon, fully editable by our gracing hands! Also, the last 3 chapters will be released today, if that had escaped you.

Not using the last thread as it was... lackluster in information from the OP (me) and such

I already have Var's and Vimbert's assistance, but, the more the merrier!

Anyone who wishes to partake in the edits of the story (which will mostly be corrections and suggestions. Basic editing, really) are free to do so!

If you wish to assist with this, drop your email off or send me an email (email is in my name, just hover your mouse over it) and I'll handle it from there.

I expect the email with the document(s) to arrive within 2 days tops (with editing rights, of course).

Also use this thread to comment on anything you disliked of the story here, so we can use that, analyze it and compare it to what happens in the story and get some discussion going!

I'm looking forward to working on this, for many reasons, the biggest one being that this Past Sins ordeal is the only thing holding up my (our?) review thread! After Past Sins has been... done by us, the review thread should come up shortly after.

Also, note that with Lightsideluc going over chapters 19-21, expect A LOT of work, editing and corrections to be done within them, stealing probably months from our time!!!

Kidding :)

Have at it!

>Pic not related... I just like it.
Unspoiler all text  • Expand all images  • Reveal spoilers
>> No. 44229
So... this is a past sin discussion thread for reviewers?
>> No. 44230
I really suck at making threads... for real!

I guess. Past Sins CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM discussion thread, as well as allowing others to offer help.

Any issues you may have had with the story are to be said here, and will be copied and pasted over to a document of mine for usage later.
>> No. 44233
Will we link this thread to the ED Past Sins page?
>> No. 44234
If the comments in EqD are any guide... no, we shouldn't do that.
>> No. 44236
I'll have to agree with that one. They seem to fear that whatever we do to this will most certainly be for the worse. Some are even upset that we're fixing the grammar...

Some people I'll just never understand. :S
>> No. 44238
File 131463338392.png - (23.89KB , 100x100 , mal51.png )
Heh, you're right. I'm just cruising though them and looking for some criticism with which to build on, and some of these guys are just defensive. Like Sir Lintalot. I had to wonder, did he even read Kim's comments?

"My advice to the authors is to work with the grammar Nazis who've so generously offered their services, but don't get so swept up in it that you feel the need to make *every* *single* *change* that they suggest. You are artists, and there is such a thing as artistic license. Don't lose sight of that."
>Implying those who care about technical details are not artists.
As an architecture student, I feel almost insulted. If they're so concerned with the narrative integrity of the story, why don't they step up to the plate and lend a hand?

Anyway, trawling through the suggestions now, gonna prep general themes. No, I'm not talking huge changes, but where a throwaway line can clarify something a bit easier I see no harm in adding it at the author's consent/
>> No. 44239

>> No. 44240
Var... where the fuck have you been until recently? I mean that in a VERY positive way. Your logic is as always, flawless and deep.

Duly noted.
>> No. 44242
(This is what Nyx fanboys actually believe.)

Let the record stand that I love Past Sins and I threw my sword into battle with it's best interests at heart.
>> No. 44243
File 131463387552.png - (13.04KB , 100x100 , mal59.png )
Believe me, nopony is more surprised than me at this stuff I'm coming up with.
>> No. 44248
So... are the next 3 chapters are being released for editing or are they being released for the public to read?
>> No. 44249
They'll be released later today. They've said themselves that Monday is the limit, and Monday is today.

It comes out today. I'm actually looking forward reading the next 3 chapters (go back before I read it and I would've said something different).

Hmm... it's almost tempting to post this thread on EqD post section. Imagine the fanboys... would be fun :S

I'll let you guys decide whether you want to or not.
>> No. 44250

I don't want them to be involved in any shape or form.

Additionally, make it a condition of helping that, if they get yet another bump in the front page when your work is done, they get to do it only in one wave. We need to give chance to other new stories.
>> No. 44252
Thanks, can't wait to read the next few chapters!
>> No. 44255
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Kim, I've been reading the revised chapters with a critical eye and I'm really seeing the points you've made. Hmm, it might be that my writing style is different, but it jars me not to see some sort of expressionism oh god is that even a word? ffff- attached to dialog, Like in Chapter 13:

>“You should be more careful when bringing in new recruits, Celestia; they aren’t always as loyal as your normal guards.”

I would alter to something along the lines of:
> "“You should be more careful when bringing in new recruits, Celestia," Nightmare Moon smiled darkly. "They aren’t always as loyal as your normal guards.”

I always tend to make it very clear who the speaker is and what their expression or mannerisms would be, and now that I notice it's absence in the story it bothers me. Also, there's a lot of closing quotation marks with periods during dialogue.

>"Like so." The alleged Grammar Nazi demonstrated.

What do you think? Should we deal with this? For me, at least, it's an issue, especially the second one. That's an error repeated throughout no matter how you look at it.
>> No. 44256
Wow! Calm down, we'll go over this semi-together later! Don't want to start burning yourself out already now!

Yes, I agree with you. These should be fixed. The lack of expressions and detailing of how things are said really neglects the amount of immersion that can be portrayed in here.

>"Like so." The alleged Grammar Nazi demonstrated.

... should I be concerned that, apart from it being a shitty non-detailing sentence, I don't see any errors with it?


>> No. 44257
File 131463784054.png - (684.31KB , 3000x4058 , applejack badass.png )
This is a good idea; kudos to you bronies for stepping in. I haven't read Past Sins yet, but I finished reading Creeping Darkness over the weekend, and corrected spelling/grammar/punctuation as I went. I'd offer my service here for the same, but I won't be able to dedicate myself to it as immediately as you guys will be able to.
>> No. 44258
XD Don't worry about it. I always get my it's and its messed up, for example. I always hit post, think "yeah, good job Var", then see something like

>and now that I notice it's absence in the story it bothers me.


Anyway, the line should be:
> "Like so," the alleged Grammar Nazi said.
>> No. 44259
Well... no.

In dialogue there is the notion of what I call the speech action verb.

What is the speech action verb? It's the verb whose purpose is to guide the reader to the intent or tone of said speech. Thus, any verb can be use as a speech action verb in order to add more weight or color to their expressions, bring out a better reading experience.

Changing demonstrated for said changes the intent of the speech. By saying demonstrated you are saying that he said so while actually showing the person how to do it, if you change it to said you would have to add an timing note saying when said action occurred in reference to said speech.

And now I feel like a condisending ass...

On the other hand, punctuation, it's/its, laying/lying/laid and quantity/was agreement seem to the biggest issues in the fandom, even FoE has them.
>> No. 44260
File 131463873407.png - (7.49KB , 100x100 , mal58.png )


I'm such an idiot, I screwed up my own sentence.

I meant to say (FOR REALS THIS TIME YO!)

>>"Like so," the alleged Grammar Nazi demonstrated.

Pay attention to the bold up there.

God, I suck right now.
>> No. 44261
No you don't...
I just know that piece of information, which I acquired by doing mistakes and learning from them.

So now you know why technically demonstrated is correct and can tell others how to properly use dialogues, making everything better!!!

I wish I could say I will help this, but I have acquired an aversion to this fic due to the comments by the fans which fill me world cracking rage. I have been considering for many days, but I feel I will not be able to do this without first telling everyone on the past sins discussion post in EqD to eat a battery.

And now I apologize for my outburst, I hope you get to those echelons of Grammar you desire.
>> No. 44263
Yeah, I abandoned the comments before things got heated. The comment section is not a place to have an argument, much less a pissing match. I try not to involve myself in such negativity and instead focus on the positive aspects of life, so I might gravitate more towards them.
>> No. 44264
I spoke at great length about those during my edits of the last three chapters (after which I shall do no more. I see little reason to edit something that almost no one will bother re-reading, especially after the disastorous reception of the first ret-con edit). While I didn't add anything to the end of them unless it was a special circumstance, Pen at least knows of their inherent importance. Considering there are entire pages of just back-and-forth dialogue, it's obviously needed (especially during three-way conversations since he rarely says who the new speaker is until the next paragraph) I had to play guessing games for several parts since the viewpoint often wasn't clearly established too. I've also pointed out the full-stop problem with his dialogue-to-exposition transitions.
>> No. 44266

>I see little reason to edit something that almost no one will bother re-reading

I'll re-read it, so there's one reader, and that's always enough for me. I'm a perfectionist, it comes from the architecture training. A home is where a person lives their lives for possibly forever, so when building it any mistake you make will be hurt their quality of life. Likewise, an artwork is where thought and emotion lives, and needless mistakes hurt their delivery from one mind to another. Yeah, I'm arguing art for art's sake, but that's because without people willing to tell it, a story will die. But if you nurture it... Well, it goes back to architecture. Buildings last long after their original creators and residents have moved on, and the same goes for stories.

Anyway, do you think he'd be receptive if we suggested those types of changes to him? He must be feeling burnt out with the story by now, I know i for one would probably struggle to go over everything again. Though I must say Google Docs is pretty awesome to use, you can edit in real time! Fanfiction.net sucks, I wish there was a fan infrastructure for Disgaea like MLP has so I could use google docs more.
>> No. 44272
Batty says they don't really want anything more to do with the story. They're willing to let you make (minor) changes and edits, but they're not interested in actually re-writing any major scenes or really taking an active role in the edits. Or at least, that's what I gleaned from a brief chat with Batty.
Yet another reason why I see little reason to edit Past Sins.

Also, forgot to mention, but repitition is a huge problem as well (up to the point where I was removing entire paragraphs). Be prepared for that.
>> No. 44277
So wait. Are you editing the ACTUAL Past Sins, or a COPY as just suggestions for what could be done? If it IS the actual Past Sins document, then HOW did you get permission to do this?

I'm so confused.
>> No. 44279
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Kim has the magic touch. From my understanding the end result would be a Gold/Platinum edition Past Sins, that could be referenced as a shinning point of fandom, rather then what it is currently.

> I see little reason to edit something that almost no one will bother re-reading
Never read it the first time LOL.

Seeing as it came up so frequently a few weeks back, I just moved on without touching it. I read enough without having to go out of my way to read something out of peer pressure.
Maybe the Special Edition will be strong enough to hold my interest.
>> No. 44281
What does that mean. Are you or are you not changing the ACTUAL Past Sins story?
>> No. 44292

*scrambles of to write a serious post*
>> No. 44293
File 131464496067.png - (168.56KB , 1055x756 , FS-Express-NotAmused.png )
Oh thank you... I thought I was confused for a second, but I guess I was wrong.
>> No. 44295
In case you can't tell, that's sarcasm.
>> No. 44296
Define "magic touch"

I'm editing the ACTUAL Past Sins (not the one on EqD, but you get the idea, yes?) for the authors in which I've had back and forth comments and emails with. Mostly emails. Instead of saying "wowzors this story sucks" or "THIS STORY IS TEH SHIT!" I actually gave constructive response, coupled with some praise of course, divided over several comments and Batty decided to email me and we had a few back and forth emails.

The purpose is mostly fixing any and all issues that are easily fixed, like grammar and sentences, also the flow and pace of the story, evening it out. Removing repetition, yadayadayada. Any major issues/concerns will be of course told to the author, but it's up to him to decide whether or not that should be taken care of. He IS the author after all, and has made it clear that he wishes to move on (I can definitely understand that).

Plus, Fluttershy is my name and kindness is my virtue (most of the time).

Sometimes, someone just needs to be shown a little kindness. *Twilight smiles*

I can be quite persuasive if I choose, especially against those willing to be assisted, like Pen Stroke and Batty Gloom. I mostly refrain from using- wait... I'm boasting now, aren't I? Heh, ignore that! :D

I'm sure they will take more notice as of to what we do in terms of fixing and suggesting in comparison to Lightsideluc (not just in terms of quantity, but otherwise as well). I've spoken with them of you, Light, and while being blunt can help quite often, sometimes it may not achieve exactly what you wish if you were more subtle, perhaps. I will not go into detail as of what we spoke of you... so don't even bother asking :)

Only those who assist with the editing will know of the emails I recieved from them, and the ones I sent. Those emails will remain confidential (Area 51 style). Being secretive is fun :D Secret Service Style!!!
>> No. 44298
Oh okay. NOW, it makes sense. Good luck with that.
>> No. 44299
Nothing less than a re-write could get it above a three-star for me. If I were to compare the two editions of the last three chapters, before and after my edits, I'd have to say it went from a 4-5 to a 6, maybe 6.5 at best, and that was after several hours of some pretty hard-core editing. Pen went over Chapter 21 twice as I was editing Chapter 20, mostly fixing the repitition problems, and I still found at least one thing to fix in every paragraph.

I wouldn't call it a special edition. This is really just the final draft of a story that was posted while it was still in the rough draft stage. Special Edition generally implies that something was added; if anything, we're taking away more than we're giving back, at least in terms of word count.
>> No. 44302
You're talking about chapters 20 and 21, but how many chapters there will be after those?
>> No. 44303
Hmm, I think I know in either case.
Let's be frank here; they're really not good at taking criticism, or at least they're not apt in seeking it. They didn't go for outside help when everyone pointed out the problems. Instead, it was kept as an in-house production. They surrounded themselves with yes-yessers, people who were their personal friends or fans, and those kind of people can (almost) never be trusted to provide the kind of feedback you need to have healthy story production. The fact that they're finally taking third-party assistance is a step in the right direction, but unless they start posting their stories here for the real reviewers to look at they'll just keep making the same mistakes.

Quite simply, they need a hard-ass who can tell them what they're doing wrong before they actually do it. There are some cruel truths that they need to come to terms with before they are able to develop more as writers and I seem to be the only person with the balls to say that to their face. Call me blunt, tactless or condescending, but know that, in the end, I'm looking out for them.
>> No. 44304
Light is speaking of chapters 19-21. I'm speaking of chapters 0-21.

No, there will not be any other chapters after 21. It is the end!

I think...
>> No. 44305
Well, we both have very different ways of speaking in general, and most certainly when offering help. From what I've seen, I don't think they have issues with taking criticism... only issue is that they want to start on a new project.

Plus, we're 3-4 in total, compared to 1 (you). Should carry more weight (logical thought ftw).

Now I should really get some sleep... sleep posting can't be good for me.
>> No. 44306
OK then. Good luck!
>> No. 44307
> Define "magic touch"

You ask, then proceed on to answer the question?
> I can be quite persuasive if I choose, especially against those willing to be assisted

;,; Secret Area 51 reviews? But I love reading reviews. They're more fun then the fanfics on some days.

So... Gold Print, Final Cut, Complete, Diamond Class... I'm running out of advertising synonyms for 'Most Current Revised Edition'
>> No. 44309
Who is on your crew? You, var, vimbert... No snarkle or Seattle? The samurai? What about the guys in the training ground? Any person with a slightly famous story? Just wondering, I think this is good but it would be nice to know who is involve and what do they actually know.
>> No. 44310
Once the stories go live on EqD I'll ask them if I can post the before/after versions of the chapters (probably Chapter 19 since that one was just a solid block of red) so that you can see exactly what it is we're doing.
>> No. 44311
Oh yeah, I guess... :S

I speak with Seattle hours each day through live chat. He won't be joining... he has other concerns, anyways.

Var- dude have you seen just his posts? He's taken me and /fic/ by Sturm! (HAH! Pun... am I doin it rite?). He will certainly be quite the aid with this, in terms of writing, suggesting and on the morale!

Vimbert - He has his own review thread and knows grammar. Has a few stories too... I think. I really should read more fanfics. Anyhow, his review thread is successful and he has my (and most likely others') respect and *insert fitting word here*. Damn my horrid vocabulary!

Me - NEED I SAY MORE!? Kidding. I won't start to rant on myself, I'll leave that to someone else (hint hint).

I do not believe The Samurai has commented or responded on this subject of mine... and if he has then I'll just have to *durp*

Snarkle... he doesn't have the time ATM. Plus, I'm not sure if he wants to or not (I think he wants... in a way).

>Any person with a slightly famous story?

You don't need to have a famous story to be a good reviewer and I think at least half the reviewers are enough proof for that statement. I suck at writing, but I seem to have a knack for reviewing (plus it's really fun).

>What about the guys in the training ground?

They have not responded as I can remember (previous thread is lost to me).

>and what do they actually know.

A question ended with a period, why does that annoy me?... Anyways, to answer this question: lurk more.
>> No. 44312
As long as you email them to me, it shouldn't be an issue for them. But sure, that would be nice.
>> No. 44313
That wasn't a question, it was a statement, I said it would be good to know those things, making a question mark there be wrong.

Thus the reason why made the question and the the statement.
>> No. 44314
True, if the "do" had been remo- fuck I'm in reviewing mode. MUST REVIEW!!!
*looks at time*
>> No. 44317
File 131464966155.png - (22.98KB , 100x100 , mal54color.png )
>Var- dude have you seen just his posts? He's taken me and /fic/ by Sturm! (HAH! Pun... am I doin it rite?). He will certainly be quite the aid with this, in terms of writing, suggesting and on the morale!
>pic related
Aheh, I didn't mean to! It just sorta happened! This community is awesome for discourse!

This is kinda 'big fish, small pond', but if it helps, I have some credentials. I'm known as 'Varanus' over on FF.net. Spoiler because no pony. I'm writing one of the most popular Disgaea fics out on the net, 'Fail to the King!'. Anypony a fan of Disgaea? No? Oh, okay. But as it stands, 18 months of work, 23 chapters, 160k words and 200+ positive reviews stand to my name. I also wrote a MLP fic recently which I dropped off at Vilbert's thread. It's called 'Composure', I'll be sending it over to ED once I'm finished the 2nd chapter.
>> No. 44489
I'm not claiming I'm great. My own writing is just kind of passable (though through some miracle both have 5 stars on EqD), but I seem to be able to help folks when I review.

If I can help one of the biggest, most popular stories in the fandom improve, we as a fandom will look better. I'm not out for their fic's blood, nor am I doing this to prove some point to everyone.

I read this fic in its original form (sadly, I've lacked the time to keep up with its updates and revisions) and thought, This is pretty good, but it could be better. If I can help it get there, great. If not? I'll shrug and move on.
>> No. 44634
Only I'm allowed to make terrible puns with my name!
>> No. 44786
I'll keep that in mind :P

SO! As of now we are 4! Seems like one more, besides me, Var and Vimbert, decided to join and sent me an email.

And, lucky you Vimbert, he lives in Western America! Now you won't be alone forever. Forever alone avoided.

I must say, if we miss more than 2 grammatical errors once we're done editing, I'll jump into the fireplace. :S

We're done with the prologue (Me and the new guy are done in a few minutes) and then I'm going to chapter 1 and 2.

Name of the new guy is Filler/Cloudvent.

Hey Light, guess who got a deaaadliiine? :D Celestia Radio is going to read Past Sins on Friday, so we have to finish the first 2-3 chapters or so. Nothing big.
>> No. 44793
Ooh, Filler's nice. I like his reviews.

Though if I didn't like people's reviews, I'd speak up more.
A conundrum there really, reviewers like to know their work is being read, but we really aren't supposed to review reviews, lest we slip into a vicious cycle and stop getting work done.
>> No. 44856
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>> No. 46361
Because I'm CRAZY, I'm done with chapter 13 already. I think the rest of the team is up to 10. Then again, Kim is THE BOSS, so...
>> No. 46362
*reposting this with my e-mail*

Kim, I sent you an e-mail with my interest in helping. Not sure how far along you all are with your corrections, but can't hurt in case you missed something, right?

I'm reading through this for the first time, and my corrections are more spelling/grammar than any story flow suggestions or additions, eg. minor things anybody will agree can and should be fixed. I do have one flow suggestion for chapter 2 though, so there may be more.

To give you an idea, I found 4 edits in chapter one(I'm going to go through the prologue and 1 again, as I started picking out things halfway through it), and 23 in chapter 2 (just finished it). I'm a quick reader, and as it's a holiday tomorrow I will most likely spend the day finishing going through this. I thought I would be able to finish it tonight, but if the rest of the chapters are as long as 2, I may be overestimating myself, hehe. Also I have a raid tonight I forgot about, ugh. Ragnaros is a p.i.t.a.
>> No. 66000
File 132137708037.png - (320.63KB , 639x359 , don't__even_think_about_it-(n1296269112023).png )
So... is the project finished yet? Can I read it now?
>> No. 66008
And here I thought Hearts of Red Ink had taken artistic license with Minty bumping threads like this...

For the record (and not having read the thread), if there have been major plot and characterization revisions to the effect that Nyx isn't such an obnoxious Purity Sue, I'd be willing to give this another read.

Online, that is. I don't need a hard copy.
>> No. 66020
File 132138812150.png - (316.94KB , 680x622 , 131904506702.png )
> And here I thought Hearts of Red Ink had taken artistic license with Minty bumping threads like this...

Some weeks I'm a bit worse then others, yes.
>> No. 66046
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If it's "done" when all the editors have gone through it tip to tail, I'm afraid I won't be done on my end for quite a while.
>> No. 88129
File 133062949504.png - (41.84KB , 416x490 , 132657479605.png )
So is it finished now? Can I read it yet?
>> No. 88131
Vimbert's gone through the whole thing, Kim and I dropped out of it around chapters nine and ten, and Varanus... I'm not sure if he's formally done with it, but I think he stopped working on it before Kim did.

There are currently two new editors working on it. Whether or not you consider that "done" is up to you.
>> No. 88150
I'm surprised it's still ongoing. I thought the only "editing" that was going on with this was the MST thread's.
>> No. 125782
File 135689348364.png - (138.03KB , 800x800 , 132657212346.png )
Okay. There is quite possibly no one on the board at this moment who will understand this bump.

So is it finished now? Can I read it yet?
>> No. 125783
Yeah, it was finished back when he posted it to FiMfic months ago.
>> No. 125784
Which he then modified to fit into the new season canon.
>> No. 125785
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Wow, this thread is so old all the images 404'd.
>> No. 125786
Huh? The op pic was working a moment ago.
>> No. 127776
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Just checking to see if I can read past sins yet in it's Gold Format, final edition.
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