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File 133460107108.png - (1.60MB , 1216x1108 , 153731 - artist x-tatik pinkie_pie.png )
97243 No. 97243
#Collection #Discussion #Calm Rants
So what annoys you, why, and what can be done to fix this?

Saidisms
"Hey Twilight," said Rainbow, "wanna go see a movie tonight?"

"Sure," Twilight exclaimed.

"Great, what's on?" Rainbow pondered.

"You're inviting me and you don't know what's on?" Twilight asked incredulously.

"Huh, yeah, I thought you might know," Rainbow ventured, a flush of embarrassment in her voice.

"Well," Twilight said hesitantly, "I know that there's this great documentary-"

"No!" Rainbow stated.

----

We see this far too often. An obsession with describing the way how every talks in every sentence.

It doesn't work. It grates at people's nerves, distracts them from the dialogue, and sounds stupid when you have a strange word choice in order to avoid repeating words.

To combat this, try some of the following...

Reduce the amount of saids and its variants. Use them now and then to make sure the reader doesn't lose track of who's speaking.

"Hey Twilight," said Rainbow, "wanna go see a movie tonight?"

"Sure."

"Great, what's on?"

"You're inviting me and you don't know what's on?" Twilight asked incredulously.

"Huh, yeah, I thought you might know," Rainbow ventured, a flush of embarrassment in her voice.

"Well, I know that there's this great documentary-"

"No!"

Better, yes? Seems more natural as generally the reader can fill in the details themselves.

Alternatively, you can try tagging speech with actions and descriptions.

"Hey Twilight, wanna go see a movie tonight?" Rainbow hovered in front of Twilight, a keen expression on her face.

"Sure." Twilight looked up from her book, her face attentive.

"Great, what's on?" Rainbow lazily rolled in the air.

Raising an eyebrow, Twilight asked, "You're inviting me and you don't know what's on?"

"Huh, yeah, I thought you might know." Rainbow rubbed the back of her neck, her cheeks turning red.

"Well," Twilight eyes glanced down in a thoughtful manner, "I know that there's this great documentary-"

"No!" Rainbow jerked forwards, a deep frown furrowed into her face.

The actions both suggest tone and relay information about the scene.

Preferably, a mixture is best.

Slowing her descent, Rainbow came to hover in front of Twilight. Her mood was upbeat.

"Hey Twilight, wanna go see a movie tonight?"

"Sure."

Twilight looked up from her book, her face attentive.

"Great, what's on?" Rainbow said, lazily rolled in the air.

Twilight raised an eyebrow.

"You're inviting me and you don't know what's on?"

"Huh, yeah, I thought you might know." Rainbow said, rubbing the back of her neck, her cheeks turning red.

"Well," Twilight eyes glanced down in a thoughtful manner, "I know that there's this great documentary-"

"No!"

There, much better.
49 posts omitted. Last 50 shown. Unspoiler all text  • Expand all images  • Reveal spoilers
>> No. 97426
I thought of something else, and I figured since I have two essays I need to be writing before tomorrow, I'm going to procrastinate. Brace for wall of text.

I think my biggest annoyance has more to do with me than anything else. I find that the main reason I enjoy writing is to be able to share stories with people. I enjoy seeing what others produce, and it makes me ecstatic when others genuinely enjoy my work. Yet, with fanfiction for this, or really any fanfiction at all, I can't do that. There's only about one person I know that is even into this show, and the few attempts I made to show them my work didn't pan out. I've made a few attempts at writing some stuff and throwing it at a few reviewers to hammer it out, but I've ultimately lost the drive for any of those ideas as I have no one to share ideas with.

For instance, me and a close friend have a mutual interest in visual novels. We want to create one together since they're a great artist and we both have some skill in writing. Right now, we're working on little mini-projects to familiarize ourselves with the program we're using. We see each other in class every week, and we share notes about the stories and characters and everything else. We keep each other motivated.

However, with MLP fanfiction, I'm kinda stuck. There's no one I know personally that writes who I can go to and earnestly share ideas and whatnot with. I just sit around by myself and throw ideas around in my head, but it never gets me anywhere. I may come up with a decent start to a story or some random scene, but without being able to bounce the ideas off of someone and get another viewpoint, I don't get much done.

I don't really mind if no one reads what I write. I wrote a pokemon fic a long time ago between a boy named Clement and a male Gardevoir named Aluxes. It never really drew much of anyone, and I realize now it was because it was kinda bad, but there were one or two people who honestly wanted to keep reading it. However, after the story stagnated in my head for a while, I ended up not continuing it. I feel horrible that I let those few down, and I don't want the same thing to happen with this. The audience is something you should never write for, because you can never appeal to everyone's tastes equally. There will always be people who don't enjoy some aspect of your story or writing, and that's fine. I have my own tastes so I can understand why it happens. While I don't care that only a few people read my work, I do care about the people that enjoyed it.

I guess what it all boils down to is that I've never been able to share with anyone I know about my writing, and so I've never been able to enjoy writing. If I feel this way, I'm certain there's others who share this same feeling. Yes, I know, there's the StoryForge thread, but that's more about ideas you have but don't want to write. There really isn't someplace for people to go and have discussions about ideas they do want to write, which I think is probably the main thing we should be focusing on.

As for a solution, would making a thread be a good idea? I'd rather not create something that would ultimately just lead to board clutter. Are there any more writers who share my sentiments and would enjoy a thread?
>> No. 97430
This is going to sound like an odd annoyance, but I really don't like subjectivity. I know there's nothing I can do about it, but I still don't like it.

(rambling begins now)

I'm a math major in college right now. I'm used to problems having one or very few solutions. But writing is so much more complex.

Am I using the right word? Is my style good? Is this plot believable? What about the flow? What's the best way to convey what I want in this scene? Is my writing unique and different? Or is it just bad?

My writing style tends to be simple. I only briefly describe the setting. I explore simple concepts and conflicts, rather than writing huge, complex epics. Does this mean I'm not as good of a writer? Or that I just tend to have my own focus and style?

There's no definite answer to any of these questions. I wish there were. All I can do is keep writing and hope for the best.

Anyways, end rambling.
>> No. 97431
>>97421
Number of reviewers that Terran inspired to start reviewing with his condemnation: 1

Number of reviewers that you've inspired to start reviewing with your brown-nosing the mods and acting like you run /fic/: 0


Just saying, you disagree with his methods, but he's got a higher turnabout than you.
>> No. 97437
>>97425
Yeah I'll bet he is.

You know what font EoP was written in?

Yeah. Large volumes of text written in TNR are like myriad cybernetic ants constructing an elaborate high-speed brain tunnel that will either dehydrate your vitreous humor and make your eye sockets bleed or give you the ride of your life.
>> No. 97440
>>97426
Have you tried the Samurai? If his posts are any guide, he is perfect for the job.
>> No. 97442
>>97422
Hehehe. This is why I write signs in Impact or Jokerman. Because then they aren't just irksome, they're illegible.
>> No. 97444
>>97440
Er, what exactly do you mean? Perfect as in perfect to reflect ideas with?

>>97437
I find myself never really noticing the font the story is written in if it's written well enough. I get into it and let myself go along with the story. I don't really think font can be used to measure the goodness of a story, but some are certainly more aesthetically pleasing than others.
>> No. 97446
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97446
>>97430
>Am I using the right word?
Does it adequately convey the meaning according to either the dictionary or a common vernacular with your audience? If yes, yes. If no, no.

>Is my style good?
Does it get in the way of your intended meaning of the narrative? If no, yes. If yes, no.

>Is this plot believable?
Is everything explained adequately? If yes, yes. If no, no.

>What about the flow?
This is more about balance, really; just don't take too long to get to the good parts of the story and you should be fine.

>What's the best way to convey what I want in this scene?
Succinctly and adequately.

>Is my writing unique and different? Or is it just bad?
Probably the former unless you've got years of practice.

>Does this mean I'm not as good of a writer? Or that I just tend to have my own focus and style?
The two aren't mutually exclusive; however, there are reasons that certain conventions such as "show, don't tell," and "grammar" come about: they let you tell your story in a way that other people don't instantly hate.

>There's no definite answer to any of these questions.
It's harder to make a computer algorithm to discern the "flowiness" of a story, but there are objective measures of quality of fiction.

Apologies, but your tone comes across as excusing yourself of any responsibility for improvement.
>> No. 97449
>>97446

My apologies. I did not mean to come off that way. I am constantly looking to improve my writing. I was just kind of rambling.
>> No. 97451
>>97440
I've been in contact with him... every now and then. Last I communicated with him was a little over a week ago, and he was as helpful as ever. He helped me find what was holding me back in the creative process. Amazing. I had a great time playing a word game he introduced me to as well, which helped me in that regard, if I may boast.

Off-topic but important: however, he's probably not going to be spending much more time around Ponychan. His goal was to get the ball rolling on a self-sustaining community that could foster healthy critique and encouragement of each other's creative writing. I say let's do his tireless efforts justice.
>> No. 97452
>>97451
Would making a thread be a good idea then? I would love to have a place where people can come together and help each other flesh out ideas, and I think if enough people came by, it would be a largely productive thread.
>> No. 97453
>>97452
From what I can tell, there's either the Storyforge or the IRC for advice; no one really took notice of my offer to do the same thing in >>96408.
>> No. 97454
>>97453
I guess what I was envisioning was the storyforge but backwards. Bring ideas you're enthusiastic about writing, and other people will earnestly help you flesh them out or some such. I just don't know how well that would work, or even if that's what the story forge also functions as.

Also, my apologies for cluttering the thread with off topic chatter.
>> No. 97456
>>97451
So you are saying not to email him with your whole packet of story ideas?

I am sure he will tell you if he can't spare the time...
>> No. 97458
>>97456
Heh. Well my friend, I never said he wouldn't kindly offer his help via email or some other means than Ponychan if asked ;-)

And yes, it's for him to say.
>> No. 97460
>>97431
>Number of six-star stories inspired by my work: 1
>Number of six-star stories inspired by his work: 0
>Number of six-star stories inspired by your work: 0, although you have a creepy shipfic
Just saying that baseless and unrelated comparisons don't prove anything other than show that you've got nothing to field.
>you disagree with his methods
I want things to improve, just like he does. I'm reviewing his approach and providing feedback so that he can more effectively bring it about. You could even say he inspired me to do that, so we'll add a "2" to your little scoreboard.

>>97451
Heh, I'm getting his help on that myself right now. Hopefully I'm as malleble as you were for him.
>> No. 97463
>>97460
It sounds like he's a busy person. I'm kinda sad I never got the chance to interact with him, but I never posted anywhere due to shyness so I can't really be surprised.
>> No. 97465
>>97463
Well, do what I did and email him, I'm sure he will respond. That said, waiting for a response.
>> No. 97466
>>97465
And I can say from both firsthand experience and conversation, he enjoys trying to helping new writers, with the limiting factor being how much effort you're willing to put into your work.
>> No. 97467
>>97465
Erm, how would I go about obtaining his email address?
>> No. 97468
>>97467
samuraianon315[at sign]gmail.com
>> No. 97471
>>97467
I got it from here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ol5C4f3pACxaXQCsXl3Vf0m4i7SF1dqA23CaboBo39E/edit

Which you can reach from his thread, or go through the various links in the sticky to get, like I did.
>> No. 97472
>>97468
Ah, thank you! Hopefully he doesn't mind random emails, but I assume with his reputation at this point he's used to it?
>> No. 97477
>>97472
Random emails? I can't imagine, but he's got enough life---and literary---experience to fill several books, so I don't think an email asking for advice is going to scare him.

I mean, he reviewed a story where EVE from Wall-E got pregnant. You can't top that.
>> No. 97480
>>97478
Mm, fair enough, though "creepy" is probably less accurate than "missing the point of several key aspects of my story." Anyway, post deleted; I jumped the gun on retorting choler as it's late and I misunderstood your post.
>> No. 97482
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97482
>>97480
Why do we fight like this? Remember the good old days, back when the anons screamed for our tarred heads on a pike? That was the best.
>> No. 97499
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97499
>>97421
It's not my intent to continue the derail, but I find it necessary to defend Terran's actions. To your question, >>97267 and >>97270 respectively.

Anyway. Back on topic. Thanks to the mods for fixing my nubcake triple post @[email protected]

>>97374
This is the correct answer. So very, very much.

Another pet peeve of mine is left-justified, particularly in a narrow width like Word/GDocs with a 12-point font. Any decent-sized word in this format, like Cloudsdale, is easily 3/4". Without any auto-hyphenation, an extremely jagged right margin is inevitable, which I find very distracting when reading. In a wider format like FimFiction, it's more tolerable.

Worse still, exactly zero style guides condone the use of both-justified margins, meaning I'm forced to suffer in silence. Either that, or rebelliously use both-justified in my own fics. Screw the rules, etc.
>> No. 97500
>>97499
And my English teachers in high school would dock points for justified formatting in essays. Fancy that.

(I agree that justification looks better, but I do not find it nearly as painful to read as, say, single point spacing and no empty lines between paragraphs, indent or no.)
>> No. 97501
>>97333
What is HiE?
>> No. 97524
>>97501
Human in Equestria
>> No. 97538
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97538
>>97482
> Why do we fight like this? Remember the good old days, back when the anons screamed for our tarred heads on a pike? That was the best.

Because being a large group of vaguely civilized opinionated bastards on the internet, we start to feel antsy if we haven't picked at each others flaws at least once or twice every few months.
For example, I forgot to check for this month's /meta/ thread...

As for things that annoy me, it's somewhere around clearly knock off stories. 'My Little Dashie but with Fluttershy', TTGL but with Ponies. Anything that hinges on you knowing a completely different work, and just slapping ponies on the end.
>> No. 97558
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97558
Here's an idea...

Why not /fic/ chat actually adopt a rule which goes along the lines of:

"Try to keep discussion on-topic (/fic/, and maybe fanfiction in general?) Straying too far from the topic on multiple occasions is grounds for a warning/kick, and multiple warnings will result in a ban of length x."

I'm not saying it should suddenly become some kind of serious fiction-related chat only thing, but maybe a little more control on how it's used? It is the /fic/ chat after all, I'm sure there are more general channels for other chat and socializing. Then it could be a place for people like Bidoof to come in and talk about stuff, without worrying about getting all sidetracked! There are a lot of really cool people there, and the IRC can be really awesome for quick idea bouncing and fanwank.

Obviously, this won't fix anything if people just go on to other channels to socialize, but truly, I don't think the IRC really is the problem here. I don't know, maybe it is, that's just speculation on my part, but as one of the 'has-beens' who hangs about contributing nothing and being a pain in the ass, I can say that the reason I'm doing that isn't because of the IRC. Sure, it's a time-sink, but I wouldn't have been reviewing anyway.

Also, I don't think it's within anyone's rights to tell someone to stop doing things because of responsibilities to TTG. TTG is volunteer-run, and volunteers by definition don't have an obligation to review at all. I could understand if there was some contract which all new reviewers volunteered to abide to which said something like that, but there isn't. People who want to socialize should be absolutely free to do so.

However, where we do have jurisdiction as the general community of /fic/ is (or should be, since it has /fic/'s name on it) is the /fic/ IRC. If we have a rule like this, it makes sure that it doesn't become a timesink for people who go there for quick advice or a fiction-related chat, and keeps it as a useful tool instead of a hindrance.

Again, I don't think this rule really needs to be enacted, but if people from the IRC say that it is distracting them from reviewing then I think it would be a pretty good solution.

Just a suggestion! Please don't attack me...
>> No. 97561
>>97538
You mean the "Burn Ion!" /meta/ thread? There hasn't been one of those for ages.

Improper dialogue punctuation still gets me.
>> No. 97563
>>97561
Funnily, I was the one to start that thread as well.
>> No. 97564
>>97558
>Another day, let's see if this passes.
I believe the easiest is just to stop calling it /fic/ because you are no more /fic/ than /fimfiction/ where a lot of the guys there are anyway. If you don't want to review or do anything related to /fic/ then calling yourselves the /fic/ IRC is misrepresentation. You say you don't review for reasons other than the IRC, proving my point you guys simply don't care to do what /fic/ is about and thus have no right to be calling yourselves that.

>>97482
Because you act (acted?) like a dick most of the time and he wants nothing to do with that? It's not that hard to figure out.

In general, I just find this place to be a gigantic hypocrisy hole of people giving lame excuses for claiming to be something they are not and acting like that's alright. Bullshit, I don't care how much you say you aren't obligated to do it, if you aren't going to be doing what you are allegedly joined over to do it makes you plain out liars and <redacted>. Damn, I say that if you are in the IRC and come over for a review not giving anything back they just erase your post, you are just a self-righteous leech.
>> No. 97567
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97567
>>97564
It's called /fic/ because that's where /fic/ regulars go to. If you ask, you shall recieve. Just because they're not poring over self-entitled author X's story with a magnifying glass and a toothbrush every waking second doesn't change that.

>Implying I was alone in that
Believe me, it was a team effort.

LOOK AT ME! I CAN TOSS OUT RANDOM ACCUSATIONS!
I can't even quite tell what it is you're complaining whining about.
>> No. 97570
>>97567
> If you ask, you shall recieve.
Not true. Any newcomer recieves at best ten minutes of partial attention before diverting into people talking about video games and personal BS, only if you are a regular do you get any decent help (aka, people who are already part of the group). I would know, I spend a good amount of time there. Yep, amazing how you can use two names, or even three, in ponychan and the IRC. So no, /fic/ helps itself in a self perpetuating jerk, not the board other newcomers. What's more, I could easily claim you are just /fimfiction/ regulars because, surprise-surprise, you are for the most part all there and would carry about pretty much the same. In other words, you are no more /fic/ than just a group of <redacted> even if you tried erasing that from the internet (have a copy by the way, just thought you might like hearing that). Worse still, there isn't even a link to get there, which goes back to my Malaysia comment: if you guys aren't doing anything related to /fic/ other than saying you are from /fic/ then keeping the name is as good as those health organizations funded by fast food chains.

Plus, there isn't even a link to the place (thanks god for that) so it's not like it can be access except by the very same people as always. So no, it's not even that you don't pore over stories, it's just that you are not /fic/. So, change the name, cut ties with /fic: and terran won't have anything to bitch over, people can continue to leech of the services they don't help with, and this whole place can stop pretending to care about writing once the whole thing comes crashing down because it was never meant to work and no one cares to make it work. That way we don't have to see people bitching about, the board will return back to normal and we can all be glad it is over.

>Believe me, it was a team effort.
So where many terrible things. And that's irrelevant, it just means he began to know better before he went to the deep end.
>> No. 97572
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97572
>>97564
I think... you did not read... my post...

Also, are you getting angry at me? For calling myself a part of the /fic/ community? I'm confused. The definition of the word 'community' is:

com·mu·ni·ty   [kuh-myoo-ni-tee]
noun, plural com·mu·ni·ties.
A social, religious, occupational, or other group sharing common characteristics or interests and perceived or perceiving itself as distinct in some respect from the larger society within which it exists (usually preceded by the ): the business community; the community of scholars.

I am a part of this community regardless of whether I review or not. Notice how every time I called it the /fic/ community. The slashes are indicative of it referring to this board, on this chan. By posting here I share a characteristic with everyone else (being a poster), and I have a right to call myself a part of this community. This is fact. I'm not sure why you're getting angry about it. (Notice how you've used the slashes incorrectly, as there is no board called /fimficiton/)

Second, I'm not sure why you keep using 'you'. I'm not a representative of the /fic/ IRC channel, I'm not an organizer, I'm not an OP/mod; I'm simply a user. (Also not sure why I'm getting all this beef.)

Third, it is called the /fic/ IRC channel because it is the official IRC channel of the Ponychan /fic/ board. I'm not sure why we're arguing about changing this; it is what it is. That's like saying: "The American Government can't call itself the American Government, it doesn't care about America!" (That wasn't a political jab, by the way, I'm just trying to prove a point.) Just because the members of the /fic/ IRC don't care (or so you say) doesn't make it not the /fic/ IRC. You can't just change its name because its members don't care, because someone will set up another official /fic/ channel and the members would migrate back, seeing as they have every right to do so. (All of them being posters, and therefore members of the /fic/ community. And the /fic/ IRC is for the /fic/ community.) Since the /fic/ IRC is actually a part of the /fic/ community in itself (otherwise it wouldn't be called the /fic/ IRC...) you're kind of accusing /fic/ of not caring about /fic/ and not deserving to call itself /fic/... you see my point? I'm even confusing myself here, but it boils down to: The /fic/ IRC is not a standalone group, it is a part of the /fic/ community. You can't just change its name and tell all IRC members to go off somewhere else.

Fourth, addressing the 'you don't care' accusation, that's also a kinda' strange thing to say. I'm not sure about the others, but myself? I care about /fic/, yes. I would be sad if it suddenly turned into a jumble of PonyFall appreciation and Cupcakes fanfiction threads. However, I don't think caring about /fic/ and not reviewing are mutually exclusive. I just can't review at the moment for reasons which are not relevant to this discussion, and I suggested a change to the /fic/ IRC rules that might help those who are finding it a distraction. You say I don't care to do what /fic/ is about, but /fic/ is about fan/fic/tion. I read fanfiction, I write (Look at our lovely collab!) and I do other odds and ends around he place, reviewing is simply one of the many things this board is about. I can't review, and just because I can't (or don't choose to at the moment) does not make me any less a part of this community. Using that logic, lots of writers who've never reviewed don't belong here; you can see that's wrong, right?

You've just replied with a kind of blind anger for no apparent reason, and haven't furthered discussion or provided constructive criticism. Just provided one suggestion which was basically just a thinly-veiled accusation/insult and obviously not intended to be taken action upon but just as a vehicle to deploy this insult/accusation. You seem to be a little emotionally-charged at the moment.

I recommend you relax, have some tea, think about what it is you'd like to say and type out a civil, polite, coherent response next time.
>> No. 97573
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97573
>>97570
Is that what you spend all your time doing? Spying and collecting unprovable evidence just to be a thorn in people's side?
You seem to have your priorities mixed up if you're accusing the #fic goers of wasting their time.

Where the bloody hell does /fimfiction/ tie into this? It's like you're throwing in random crap to muddle the issue before someone sees through your smokescreen.

Copy of what? You're spouting gibberish. I'm having a difficult time keeping track of your illogical points, and even moreso giving a damn.

There was a link before, the new sticky came into being, and now there's no link. I'm sure that if someone asked !!Rarity to add it, it would be (barring the possible issue of having an official link to an unofficial and uncontrolled resource).

The only people "bitching" about it is you and Terran. Not everyone is a soulless reviewing machine like he is. They want someone to kick back for a few and trade laughs. Should they spend all of their time there? No. All things in moderation, after all. But begrudging them such a simple thing as being able to shoot the wind with friends is stupid, plain and simple.

>So where many terrible things. And that's irrelevant, it just means he began to know better before he went to the deep end.
You don't have an inkling of what you're talking about. Your ignorance on the matter serves no end and only shows how little care and consideration is going into your argument, instead relying on limp and unfounded insults to open past scars. It would be best for all of those involved if you didn't bring up it again.
>> No. 97574
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97574
>>97570
I also find it hard to believe you are a regular visitor of the IRC.

But what I believe doesn't matter, the truth matters. Please provide dated, time-stamped logs of the events you describe taking place and then we can discuss the issue. Otherwise we are arguing over baseless accusations, and if we're going to do that, I'd rather accuse Ion-Sturm of being the author of 'Pattycakes'. And then we can tease him for it.

Seriously though, if something like that is happening that is bad. And we should take measures against it. (Especially before lobbying for the link to be re-added to the sticky!)
>> No. 97576
>>97572
Cute. You actually think I'm angry. Don't worry, just lurk more, I'm sure you will learn a bit or two.

Now, let's see:
>Angry at you
Refer to the first part, but if you need an answer, no, can't waste my time being angry with you.

>Defintion of community
Even more cutsey.

>The IRC channel being for all of /fic/
Which began, and allegedly remained until you said otherwise, a place for reviewers to join heads and talk with each other or writers who needed the help. But of course, my mistake, I must have missed all the other subcommunities of this place there, silly me right?. BS, something that you know, but let me humor you for now.

>Thinking that you is singular in this case
You is also a plural, something you should also know, but I think the more important thing is that you aren't important enough to warrant a singular. Ion-sturm? Sure, he even has a rule aimed at his head. Pascoite? Sure, he actually posts here. Octavia? Him too, he practically runs the TCB thread. The Samurai? Aren't we in this mess because he sold everyone a bridge? You? You normally keep away from everything to the point it is funny. So don't worry about that you.

>Hey, tautology
For starters, it isn't any more official than the #ttg-nsfw because it's just as user created than anything else, or we don't count that one? As for your tautology, look up tautology and notice how claiming something is something because people say it is is called a circular argument. Those don't work, specially since you begin with a statement and prove it with itself.

>Caring
You rarely post. Most people there don't post. Hell, most are so tenuously connected to the community I could make a bot to react to keywords with the very same canned responses and we would have lost nothing. You don't want to review? Awesome, but if you never post, you don't ever comment except to make small quips, and you don't bother when things are about to collapse, sorry, you don't care and if you did care you are a terrible person for not doing anything. And yes, I find every single person who hasn't reviewd a despicable person because they dare use someone's time and give nothing back, so much so I still stand you should just erase non-contributors posts as the leeches they are. Hell, if half the things they say about the Samurai are true, he is the single most leech-of person in the board and I can only be happy for him abandoning you guys because, despite the fact he caused all this mess, he at least seems to actually help people by offering his advice, no matter how small because he knows why he tried to organize /fic/ (again, the IRC began from hearts and grew from there, so no, it's not for the rank and file of /fic/). As for your collab, it failed last time and it started pretty much the same way, so that proves nothing other than you happily letting the place burn while you have fun.

>Not furthering discussion
At this point there is nothing to further, the fact is that terran here tried giving you a lease in live and you squander it. The fact is that what you allegedly fear for /fic/ is currently held by people who are about to collapse themselves. Fact is that there is no sign that the people, locked in an IRC room none but those linked there or actively hunting down can access. Fact is that the IRC stopped being about /fic/ many moons ago and you just keep the name because admitting that there is nothing to connect you to this place would be to admit that you don't care.

So no, don't try to BS me Sparky.

So I suggest you go drink tea, finish your exams, and stop trying to pull the wool over my face, it doesn't suit you.

>Writing in phone is a pain...
>> No. 97582
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97582
So, um, question...I don't mean to sound like a dick, but...why are we assuming that all /fic/ is about or can offer is reviewing, or that one must be reviewing to be any sort of use here? I mean, I don't know about you, but I really like threads that inspire writing in other ways like prompts or discussions of craft or compendiums of certain genres...Those are valid too, right?
>> No. 97583
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97583
>>97576
>Implying that everyone in /fic/ is a reviewer
And here I was thinking that people had actually dropped this silly idea by now.

I've never considered myself a reviewer nor called myself one. I dabbled in it occasionally to test the waters and ended up spending about 1 hour per thousand words reviewed. The main reason why I wasn't satisfied, though, was because in most cases I was unable to say anything nice or encouraging to the author. Without sugar-coating and lying through the teeth, I simply wasn't able to say anything positive after spending 5 hours reading something I considered to be incredibly sub-par and littering the document with about 200 comments. The end result was that I don't feel I helped the author at all, and may have even hindered them, just because of the mostly negative things I had to say.

I'm not a reviewer, because I cannot adequately help those that need it.

I hang out in #fic because that is where /fic/ people hang out---and not all /fic/ people are reviewers.

My participation in the community is more around collaboration and getting people to do stuff and keeping a generally positive attitude about everything---which is why I can't review in the typical sense; it just makes me nasty. If someone wants direct help on their works, they can go to #ttg. #ttg is the channel for discussion of writing technique, mechanics, etc.

Well, that's my spiel.
>> No. 97589
Here's my take.

I am a member of the /fic/ community. I don't review, because I just can't stand it. I don't think that someone asking for a review deserves my half-assed attempt at one. I only ever do reviews from time to time, mainly when i'm in the mood. I never promised to review, though. This doesn't stop me from being a /fic/ member.

Rather than take it upon myself to review, I do other things instead. I try starting collabs and interesting discussions. I like to find threads which are 'any tips for new writers' because I like to help people in a way that I know I can. I'm no master of literature, but what I do know I share.

At the end of the day, the irc is merely an irc. Pretty much every irc for every community turns into a cliquey sort of thing for regulars, but whatever. The most important thing about this board is continuing Samurai's and Vimbert's legacy. there legacy though, is not creating review threads. There legacy is to create an atmosphere where literature can be criticized in a helpful manner which helps authors, without becoming insulting. This entire thread had turned into the exact opposite of what /fic/ is supposed to be about. It's turned into mudslinging and emotional butt hurt.

What the heck guys?
>> No. 97590
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97590
>>97576
Well, gee. You sure sound angry.

>...waste my time being angry with you.
Insults like these make you sound angry.

>subcommunities
Which all make up the general community that is /fic/...?

>You is also a plural, something you should also know, but I think the more important thing is that you aren't important enough to warrant a singular.
Wow, geez, okay dude. My mistake. But let me just repost some phrases that you posted just to point out why I made this honest mistake:
>...you are no more /fic/ than /fimfiction/ where a lot of the guys there are anyway.
>If you don't want to review...
>then calling yourselves the /fic/ IRC is misrepresentation.
Sure, okay. But then you throw in:
>You say you don't review for reasons other than the IRC...
See, that's obviously addressed to me, which when mixed in with all these plural yous towards all those bigger, more-important guys that you consider worth your time, could throw me off a little. Maybe you should have made that a little clearer before insulting people for not understanding your point?

>...#ttg-nsfw because it's just as user created than anything else, or we don't count that one?
No, we don't, because it specifically says it's the unofficial branch of #ttg.

>As for your tautology, look up tautology and notice how claiming something is something because people say it is is called a circular argument.
Okay, fine. Let's say we called it #fanfiction. Please explain to me how this would get the reviewers to leave and start writing more of the all-important reviews that the channel is apparently keeping them from writing?

>And yes, I find every single person who hasn't reviewed a despicable person because they dare use someone's time and give nothing back,
Wha... Use who's time? I'm so confused. So are the writers who hang out here despicable too?

>...erase non-contributors posts as the leeches they are.
So, if /fic/ was the way you wanted it, there would be some kind of merit-system where you could only talk if you reviewed? I'm not arguing, I'm just trying to figure out what you actually want.

>Hell, if half the things they say about the Samurai are true, he is the single most leech-of person
I don't even... Really, I'm so confused. Hasn't Samurai been reviewing for people since the very beginning?

>As for your collab, it failed last time and it started pretty much the same way, so that proves nothing other than you happily letting the place burn while you have fun.
I was just throwing that in as an example. Sure, it went balls-up, but it was fun. I'm happy we did it.
And I do write other things, you know. That was kind of what I was trying to say, /fic/ isn't just about reviews. Otherwise it would be /review/.

>At this point there is nothing to further
But... then why are you posting... What's the point of all this? I thought you're saying this to make some change happen?

>Fact is that the IRC stopped being about /fic/ many moons ago and you just keep the name because admitting that there is nothing to connect you to this place would be to admit that you don't care.
Okay, if we're going to start pointing fingers and accusing each other of 'not caring', then let's at least acknowledge that caring is not binary. Maybe I don't care for /fic/ as much as I did some time ago, but it doesn't mean that I don't care.

I'm just confused now. I'm not even sure what to say. I posted a suggestion on how to improve things and you come at me with all these condescending... I'm not even sure. I guess they're arguments, but they don't seem to be for any cause. What I was expecting was for some people to suggest why my rule wouldn't help, or why it was too controlling or how it would be too difficult to enforce. Maybe some people saying that it was a good idea. Instead, I get... I'm not sure. Someone suggesting something which he obviously didn't expect to be acted upon, but just a way to hide insults at many of the most prominent figures on the board. I'm not even too sure why you made it a response to my post, it would have been fine on its own, if that was what you wanted achieve with your post.

Y'know, the biggest problem with /fic/ right now? I don't think it's people chatting on the IRC. I don't think it's Ion-Sturm being sharp-tongued to newcomers.
I think it's this. Maybe it's just me, but I remember /fic/ being much more... friendly. I don't know.
Hey, maybe you're right. I don't contribute much. Maybe I'm just lying to myself. Maybe I don't really care.

Is caring a requirement for being here though? Ah, I don't even know what we're discussing any more. I think you're right; I'm wasting your time. And I'm wasting my time. This isn't achieving anything.
>> No. 97591
>>97576

Hm. Masks wearing masks fail to amuse me.
>> No. 97592
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97592
>>97576
>And yes, I find every single person who hasn't reviewd a despicable person because they dare use someone's time and give nothing back, so much so I still stand you should just erase non-contributors posts as the leeches they are.

Thankfully, you don't make site policy.

In any case, I'm a bit perplexed here. I remember not long ago people from the Training Grounds were complaining about having too much workload and needing to shut the thread down.

And yet here, I'm hearing that nobody in the Training Grounds thread is actually doing reviews to begin with.

This is... rather disconcerting to me.
>> No. 97594
>>97592
OP here, can we lock this thread? It seems that everything that needs to be said has been said, and the rest is just shouting.
>> No. 97595
>>97590
>Ah, I don't even know what we're discussing any more. I think you're right.
No. Seriously. Fuck this guy. /fic/ is more than just reviewers and reviewing.

He even snarked about your collab for no good reason.

Gee, okay, you god dam buzzkill, let's all just be fucking librarians and do nothing but review all day. Fuck trying anything new.

Yeah, shit flops all the time. Does that mean we should never try new things? Fail once, try harder. Fail twice, try twice as hard.

I thought this was the image that everyone was trying to remove from /fic/.
>> No. 97597
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>>97594

Fair enough.
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