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File 133460107108.png - (1.60MB , 1216x1108 , 153731 - artist x-tatik pinkie_pie.png )
97243 No. 97243
#Collection #Discussion #Calm Rants
So what annoys you, why, and what can be done to fix this?

Saidisms
"Hey Twilight," said Rainbow, "wanna go see a movie tonight?"

"Sure," Twilight exclaimed.

"Great, what's on?" Rainbow pondered.

"You're inviting me and you don't know what's on?" Twilight asked incredulously.

"Huh, yeah, I thought you might know," Rainbow ventured, a flush of embarrassment in her voice.

"Well," Twilight said hesitantly, "I know that there's this great documentary-"

"No!" Rainbow stated.

----

We see this far too often. An obsession with describing the way how every talks in every sentence.

It doesn't work. It grates at people's nerves, distracts them from the dialogue, and sounds stupid when you have a strange word choice in order to avoid repeating words.

To combat this, try some of the following...

Reduce the amount of saids and its variants. Use them now and then to make sure the reader doesn't lose track of who's speaking.

"Hey Twilight," said Rainbow, "wanna go see a movie tonight?"

"Sure."

"Great, what's on?"

"You're inviting me and you don't know what's on?" Twilight asked incredulously.

"Huh, yeah, I thought you might know," Rainbow ventured, a flush of embarrassment in her voice.

"Well, I know that there's this great documentary-"

"No!"

Better, yes? Seems more natural as generally the reader can fill in the details themselves.

Alternatively, you can try tagging speech with actions and descriptions.

"Hey Twilight, wanna go see a movie tonight?" Rainbow hovered in front of Twilight, a keen expression on her face.

"Sure." Twilight looked up from her book, her face attentive.

"Great, what's on?" Rainbow lazily rolled in the air.

Raising an eyebrow, Twilight asked, "You're inviting me and you don't know what's on?"

"Huh, yeah, I thought you might know." Rainbow rubbed the back of her neck, her cheeks turning red.

"Well," Twilight eyes glanced down in a thoughtful manner, "I know that there's this great documentary-"

"No!" Rainbow jerked forwards, a deep frown furrowed into her face.

The actions both suggest tone and relay information about the scene.

Preferably, a mixture is best.

Slowing her descent, Rainbow came to hover in front of Twilight. Her mood was upbeat.

"Hey Twilight, wanna go see a movie tonight?"

"Sure."

Twilight looked up from her book, her face attentive.

"Great, what's on?" Rainbow said, lazily rolled in the air.

Twilight raised an eyebrow.

"You're inviting me and you don't know what's on?"

"Huh, yeah, I thought you might know." Rainbow said, rubbing the back of her neck, her cheeks turning red.

"Well," Twilight eyes glanced down in a thoughtful manner, "I know that there's this great documentary-"

"No!"

There, much better.
Unspoiler all text  • Expand all images  • Reveal spoilers
>> No. 97244
>Hey Twilight
My pet peeve: people not using commas to set off a person's name in an address.
>> No. 97245
>>97244
Typo.
>> No. 97247
Isn't there already a thread for this?
>> No. 97248
I have quite a few... (nitpicking rage calm mode activate!)

Underlines
They're ugly and deceive me by pretending to be links. Bolded or even CAPS headings look so much nicer.

Single quotes
'Stupid unsubstantial things look like apostrophes!' I said. 'Use them only when absolutely necessary!'

Lavender Unicorn Syndrome
http://eznwords.tumblr.com/post/21010451863/ellyewess

Incorrect dialogue punctuation
It's not that hard, you guys! Read a book! Every time I see a "'Hello.' Said Pony" my urge to downvote and/or read something else rises.

Two spaces after the end of a sentence
I'm falling down all these massive gaps in the middle of paragraphs! Someone help!

Giant indents in short-paragraph-heavy stories in wide formats
I thought this was a story, not a 2D representation of a spiral staircase!

Paragraphing: indentation combined with vertical separation
Overkill, much? I get that you made a new paragraph; you don't need to get so overexcited about it.

Paragraphs separated only by single line breaks
This is the worst idea ever.
It is just terrible.

Unnecessary first person/present tense/coloured text
In descending order of degree to which they irritate me. Do nonstandard things because you need to, folks.

Author notes/Disclaimers
When I read a story, I want to read a story, not your blog. We all know you don't own MLP; you'd hardly be writing fanfic if you did. (At least put them at the end.)

Dam and sire for mom and dad
This is probably the "appropriate horse terminology" line.

Turned beet red
Please find another expression to use. Please don't make characters blush so often.

Stories without images
Use a screencap! Steal something from Ponibooru!

FIMfiction.net doesn't have an option to hide (non-Mature) stories that I don't want to see on the feature bar (or on the site).

Long headings

Headings with no content underneath them

Stupid meta humour
I think this "Pinkie breaks the fourth wall LOL" thing has been massively overplayed for a long time (worse than Dash breaks her wings or Twilight messes up a spell, even, because it doesn't just apply to fanfic). You're not edgy and original if everyone's done the postmodern self-reference thing a million times before.

The new look of thread tags
They are so stretched and hideous. You'd have to write a sentence out in a tag to justify all that extra space.

>#Calm Rants
Well, I stayed fairly calm.

Nice points about saidisms, OP. I generally drop "said so-and-so" about three lines into a two-character convo. I used to be incredibly robotic about my dialogue (never using action tags, never using "So-and-so said, '<words>'", always keeping every line of dialogue in its own paragraph) but I've been working at mixing things up recently.
>> No. 97250
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97250
The fact that I gave the Training Grounds a fresh start and new lease on life, but the members squandered that by instead hanging out in their IRC channel and not reviewing.

The fact that socializing in this community used to be about writing and reviewing, but now seems to be more heavily focused on the individuals' lives, meaning that writing is now given the same weight as "how my day went," "what video games I'm playing," and other such trivialities.

The solution to both would be for everyone to use the IRC in moderation and to turn the focus of it back to writing; however, as it is, the IRC is comfortable, so there is little reason or desire by its members to change.

Which reminds me of the fact that this community seems dead inside.
>> No. 97255
>>97250

If you have issues with the operation of the IRC network (or believe it should be shut down), contact Ganymede. He's the one in charge, and the only one that can do anything about it.

Second, complaining and making passive-aggressive statements won't change the culture in /fic/. Find the people who are lazing about and ask them about it. Request that they get back in the action. It's not hard to contact people, especially if they're hanging around in the IRC like you said. Most people will respond to polite requests.

I guess the big thing is that negativity will not bring /fic/ back to what was apparently an non-dead community. If you want to create change, then you need to understand how to change others, and that begins with positive experiences.
>> No. 97256
>>97250
Ouch.
>Doesn't use the IRC much anymore
Dodged that bullet, I did.
>> No. 97260
>>97250
>>97255
>>97256

I see this thread ending very badly.
>> No. 97263
File 133461156626.jpg - (3.36KB , 160x148 , Ghost Reporting.jpg )
97263
>>97255
If one channel were shut down, two more would pop up in its place.

The *only* way for people to get off their asses is for them to want to review. Clearly, not everyone wants that, and no amount of calling them out is going to fix that.

In a thread of "Things That Annoy [Me]," I'd say that a large problem with no clear solution is an appropriate response to the posed question.
>> No. 97264
> Grabs popcorn.
>> No. 97265
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97265
>>97260
You and me both, doc.
>> No. 97267
>>97263

I disagree with your argument regarding people not wanting to review anymore. I've gotten people to do more reviews by request, and sending in requests to private reviewers often bears fruit.

If it's inevitable, then why complain about it at all? If it's an inevitable result then there's no reason to try and change it. This is a thread about problems and how to fix them, not a thread to complain about the futility of life.

But fine, failing bringing old reviewers back, we need to talk about how to bring new reviewers in.

Old reviewers and reviewees will fall by the wayside (or apparently in the IRC), and new reviewers will appear over time. If the problem is as prevalent as you say, then we need things like the IRC to make the community look more attractive. We need people that are so dedicated to reviewing that they manage to encourage others to review just by their sheer enthusiasm. I don't think the IRC or any medium of communication took that away from us. Again, be the change you want to see. Bring conversation about literary technique back into the IRC, promote the change from 'what I did today' to 'how can we write this better'? Considering you've 'given the TG a new start', I think people are more than willing to listen to you.

Complaining can only do so much. People who do nothing but complain get nowhere. In fact, if there's one thing I want to take out of this thread, it's how we're going to make the reviewer culture you've described. It's not enough to promote change on /fic/, you need to be an agent of it.
>> No. 97269
File 133461495986.jpg - (3.36KB , 160x148 , Ghost Reporting.jpg )
97269
>>97267
In response to "complaining getting nowhere," if the past few weeks is any proof, neither does helping the efforts of the Training Grounds. In fact, it's only fifteen minutes of my time to complain about how things could be done better; if anything, in terms of the reviewers of /fic/, it's less of a waste of my time to just idly complain.

In terms of authors, though, the people I wish to help, it's just as bad as idling in an IRC. However, we're at an impasse, then: I have no desire to help in a Training Grounds where the my efforts are constantly needed. I'd open my own review thread for that. Twenty-six reviews in five days was supposed to be the boot to the pants required to kick-start productivity, or at least humiliation to shame the members back into doing what they should have volunteered to do in the first place.

It appears that a community devoted to writing sexy, torturous stories about a little girls' TV show no longer has shame. I might have anticipated that and saved myself a week of time.



However, to humor you, "Steps for Improving /fic/'s Culture" would be as follows:

1) Have a better welcome wagon than Ion-Sturm going around pissing on every "bad thread" and praising every "good thread."
He's not going to change his attitude. It's up to the rest of the /fic/ regulars to be more sociable to newcomers, more inclusive, and to actively show them the ropes. Several instruction manuals in an OP on the training grounds are an insufficient, inhuman welcoming device. Being more personable is how you'll "get more newcomers," not having a massive spawning pool of idle chitchat.

2) Reduction of dependency on the IRC
Very few people do collaborative reviews in this community. Communication is not essential to the actual reviewing process, save for asking specific questions or teaching new individuals the overhead procedures (queue updating, claiming, posting, etc.). While it's important to be able to communicate with others (it's part of how this community learns), too much inane talking detracts from reviewing, and as of now, this community definitely errs on that side of the spectrum.

3) Remembering why we're here
The Training Grounds community is currently based around ten active reviewers and roughly twenty "has beens" who hang around, socializing, while contributing next to nothing. To go along with #2, socializing on that scale is detrimental to reviewing. The reviewers here should be here to help authors, not to be friends with other reviewers. It's nice to socialize, but it's insulting and demeaning to authors who come, post in the Training Grounds, and then have to wait a week because no one wants to get off his ass to review.
>> No. 97270
>>97269
>Twenty-six reviews in five days was supposed to be the boot to the pants required to kick-start productivity, or at least humiliation to shame the members back into doing what they should have volunteered to do in the first place.

Then you need to articulate that. Why would people be ashamed of not doing reviews? In fact, the only indication that you weren't doing it out of the goodness of your heart is this very thread. If you want to state a message, say it out loud. Communication is key. Don't assume that people get that, because they often don't.

Second, people are not under a contractual obligation to review. In fact, many of the active reviewers dislike reviewing, but do it to help the community out. Third, don't assume that everyone in the IRC is a reviewer. Almost half of them have never done a review prior to this post.


>It appears that a community devoted to writing sexy, torturous stories about a little girls' TV show no longer has shame. I might have anticipated that and saved myself a week of time.

Then leave, but don't task us with a problem and walk back in when we fix it.

You're going to have to stop relying on the idea that you're better than the community you serve if you want to save /fic/. You need to be a positive force on the community, not some vigilante reviewer who complains about the things he tries to save.

To put it simply, I'd rather lose and have people who work together and communicate than win with one person carrying the team, silently working on. And that's what you did. You silently saved us, then decided to complain about it. Teach a man to fish, don't give him one.


>However, to humor you, "Steps for Improving /fic/'s Culture" would be as follows:

See? That was the most productive thing to come out of the thread. When you stop emphasizing the problem and start working on solving it, good things happen.

Well, I'll get to work on resolving some of these issues when I get the time. Thank you for the discussion.
>> No. 97271
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97271
>>97270
My role is not to save /fic/ or The Training Grounds. I'm *not* better than anyone in The Training Grounds, either.

Except that I actually review.
>> No. 97272
File 133461795768.png - (254.91KB , 680x658 , a71.png )
97272
>>97269
>Tells users how they can improve their threads
>Shows them where they can go to get the best help in the least amount of time
>Improve flow and decrease clutter
>This is bad
Sure, why not? And, hey, as long as we're making generalizations and limp insults, no professional Starcraft player uses Ghosts in tourny play because they're an expensive and inefficent unit.
>> No. 97277
>>97271
Then what is your role? You're the only one stopping yourself.

>Except that I actually review.

Things like this greatly reduce the rhetorical effects of your statements. No one wants to listen to somebody who makes backhanded jabs all the time. Relax.
>> No. 97281
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97281
>>97277
I tried to help. My help was ignored in the long term. I have no evidence to show me that more effort will be worth my time.

Hence: complaining in the complaining thread. All it does is raise awareness for a stalemate problem. I know it's pointless, but I don't give a damn if people think less of me. The important thing was that I helped a few authors; the problem is that, as none of the reviewers learned anything from that, only time will tell how long it takes for The Training Grounds to collapse without another bailout.
>> No. 97284
>>97272
He might not be the nicest guy around, but he has a point you ain't the best welcoming wagon. You act like the queen wanna-bee of high school, not greeting people but judging if they deserve to be in this glorious land!

Also, why guys don't go around fimfiction? There is probably more people there. Also, if the people aren't doing /fic/ related stuff but just socializing why call the thing /fic/? Call it something else and there is no pretense you guys might review, obligation or otherwise. Plus, isn't right to say those who haven't reviewed have been helped by the TTG, making the fact they decide to leech off it but not help worse? I don't think there is a single reviewer here who hasn't posted a story for review under their own name or one different (Samurai, until proven otherwise, goes by another name).
>> No. 97287
>>97284
I'm not trying to be a welcoming wagon. I'm the guy that leaves a snarky note on your windshield when you double-park, or phone the police with your plate number if you trade paint with another car and drive away without leaving a note.

You don't go into the IRC, do you? If you want help with a story, you just have to ask. I go to #fic from time to time with a question and they always give me a quick answer. It's not that they won't help people, it's just that no one is asking them for said help.

The Samurai has never publically posted a story here for review. The closest he had to that was a thread (before the Story Forge came to be) for dicussing a story idea he had and asking people if they wanted to contribute ideas. He has asked for conceptual reviews in private once or twice in the past, though.
>> No. 97288
File 133462121289.png - (28.13KB , 347x406 , Glare.png )
97288
>>97284
>Samurai, until proven otherwise, goes by another name
Burden of proof does not work that way. You're claiming he has posted a story, you need to prove it. At any rate, though, he's an exception to your rule.


>rest of thread
>people arguing that the status quo is good and resisting change
Oy, vey.
>> No. 97290
>>97287
1.) So, he is right.

2.) Hi, I am the minister of transport of Malaysia, would you like to bring your car for a check-up? This is /fic/, not the IRC. Most people have barely used imageboards and you expect them to arrive here, find the link to the IRC and then get help? Sorry, but that's just stupid.

3.) So he says. I'm just saying that saying that you haven't done a review makes you be immune to the accusation you aren't doing shit for /fic/ to be wrong because you are part of the problem of the place being filled. Now, if you guys are just going to be helping each other, well, get that list of the TTG and stop pretending that IRC is for /fic/ in any useful way.
>> No. 97306
>>97290
In a manner of speaking, but he's implying that it's a bad thing and is trumping up a negative aspect.

You seem to be confusing where I put my analogy. And I'm not saying that, I'm saying that if they do ask there, they'll get help. Ghost is saying it's useless, I'm saying he doesn't know what he's talking about. Is it a timesink? Of course. But everyone needs a vent and a place to shoot the wind, and if they do it there, then they won't clutter /fic/ threads with idle chitchat. It serves as a good instant-reply forum for story ideas, questions about mechanics and requesting quick reviews.

You're as mis-informed as you are vocal. A potent mix, to say the least.
>> No. 97311
I'm playing the re-rail card. On topic. Things that annoy me? /fic/ derails. Those are seriously starting to grate on me.

Something that annoys me is when a fic I really don't see the appeal in or really don't like make it to FiMFic's featured list. For example, Derpy's Diary. It had no story, no plot, no conflict. I can't imagine why it stayed up there for as long as it did (before getting on EqD, that is). I know, I'm not liking what others like, but still--what the hay do they see in it besides it "being cutely written"?

And something else that annoys me is how there's almost always clop in the featured list. Also a case of not liking what others like, but both the volume and popularity of it are both rather disheartening to me.
>> No. 97313
File 133462573034.jpg - (3.36KB , 160x148 , Ghost Reporting.jpg )
97313
>>97306
The usefulness ends at "helping authors write" and the harm comes when it becomes "a distraction from reviewing." I've been very clear on this point.
>> No. 97330
Something that annoys me is people not respecting other people's opinions. It's not hard to sit back, realize there's nothing to to be mad about, and formulate a thoughtful response.

I don't really have anything on topic, unfortunately. It's been so long since I've had the time to do anything related to writing. I guess the thing that annoys me most is when a story is well-known and everyone who reads it enjoys it, and I start reading it with such high expectations only to completely fail to draw any enjoyment out of it. Part of me wonders if there's something wrong with me while the other part wonders whats wrong with the fandom. Though, this isn't really something that can be fixed and is more of a user issue, so I guess this was kinda pointless.
>> No. 97333
File 133462804142.png - (217.45KB , 481x500 , discord yes i mad.png )
97333
About Fanfiction writing: HiE. It has to be the most over-written genre out there. I don't care if every HiE fic falls off the front page of FiMFiction after a day; more will rise up to replace them, day after day after day.

About this community: it can't decide whether naming names when it comes to earnestly expressing grievances is the correct way of doing so. On one hand, if someone criticizes someone else in particular for being lazy or a poor critic/writer of fanfiction for whatever reason, they run the risk of: (1) being accused of picking a fight; (2) counter-criticism that may not have anything to do with addressing the original criticism; (3) ad-hominems. I've seen this happen a lot with criticism directed at Ion-Sturm. What's more aggravating is that if said person takes every measure to avoid being a hypocrite, and then makes a general criticism of the community, it's just as bad. They are then labeled "passive-aggressive" because they are just taking what's mistakenly the safer route by coming at the problem like the voice in the wilderness, or some prophet out to make people repent. The problem is that heads on the green is just too beautiful a dish for us to pass up.

Here we have a commando who nuked the queue and didn't ask for any special recognition, and DIDN'T initially rub it in everyone's faces, but humbly expected everyone to be inspired to follow his example in the act of hunkering down and helping authors. Since then, everyone continued to sit on their hands in under the pretense of doing just that, when they should have taken a hint. They didn't. And now he's being accused of "passive aggressive statements" when, if anything, he practically has license to say such things; his hard work was in vain insofar as nobody learned a damned thing.

We're all busy, yes, and I know we all have lives. It's what we choose to do around here when we actually have time to spare that distinguishes us as lazy or helpful.
>> No. 97337
>>97333
Addendum:

Not "everyone" sat on their hands. That's totally unfair to the people who've been active. My bad.

Also, another thing that annoys me is server errors.
>> No. 97339
>>97333
If he had said it was a problem and stated the reasons why, then that's fine. Instead, he adopted a holier-than-thou stance, made generalized insults, and expected people to read between the lines then berate them when they didn't figure out the solution to his unspoken issues.
>> No. 97346
>>97337
>Also, another thing that annoys me is server errors.
While we're at it, Opera, the browser I use for all my pony, is really pissing me off lately. Pages and Google Documents take forever to load, including after lots of refreshing, and star ratings on EqD rarely, if ever, show up for me. (I have my reasons for using Opera.)

And fics written entirely in serifless fonts. Like Arial. I guess FiMFiction has helped mitigate that, but before FiMFiction became the standard, dear god, Arial.
>> No. 97348
Ah, yes, the server error. I haven't gotten one of those since I got this trip. Good times.
>> No. 97355
> If he had said it was a problem and stated the reasons why, then that's fine.

>>97250
> The fact that socializing in this community used to be about writing and reviewing, but now seems to be more heavily focused on the individuals' lives, meaning that writing is now given the same weight as "how my day went," "what video games I'm playing," and other such trivialities.
> The solution to both would be for everyone to use the IRC in moderation and to turn the focus of it back to writing
I think the problem is that no one asked him to elaborate.
>>97269
> Very few people do collaborative reviews in this community. Communication is not essential to the actual reviewing process, save for asking specific questions or teaching new individuals the overhead procedures (queue updating, claiming, posting, etc.). While it's important to be able to communicate with others (it's part of how this community learns), too much inane talking detracts from reviewing, and as of now, this community definitely errs on that side of the spectrum.
Well, I think you certainly read between the lines. You read between them and saw nothing but:
> he adopted a holier-than-thou stance, made generalized insults, and expected people to read between the lines then berate them when they didn't figure out the solution to his unspoken issues.
And, well, he didn't expect them to figure out the solution for themselves, he actually proposed solutions in >>97250, >>97263 (albeit with unwarranted / insulting pessimism) and >>97269. Even if he's made holier than thou statements, why not give him the benefit of a doubt? (see Bidoof's excellent post: >>97330) I mean honestly, this is one of those rare times when someone who's either new or posting under a pseudonym/anonymously has actually had the audacity to make such damning statements about the community, yet doesn't qualify as a hypocrite or mudslinging interloper who doesn't understand /fic/ for the reason that they've actually taken part in constructive activities around here.

Seriously, what the heck is going on. My brain is broken.
>> No. 97356
>>97346
Fuck Arial. Her and her crabs think she's such a good singer. I went and saw her and she didn't even say one Poseidon-damned thing!
>> No. 97358
>>97355
Oh, and er... another mistake: he has been asked to elaborate.

No one could be expected to, though. Sure, the burden of proof is on him. But "proof" in this case requires extensive logs of the IRC, and figuring out (by reading minds?) when people weren't too busy to help and yet didn't.
>> No. 97359
>>97356
Fuck Times New Roman, too. Though apparently I'm a minority in this sentiment.
>> No. 97361
>>97359
Times New Roman is like the skinny, hot slut of a younger sister of Georgia. Easy to do and everyone does with good reason.
>> No. 97362
File 133463151024.png - (544.06KB , 1033x720 , Discord_S02E02.png )
97362
>>97361
> Times New Roman
> younger
> 1932
Ze Romans have been around for a lot longer. That doesn't make them any less slutty.
http://maythechristianlordguidemyhand.ytmnd.com/
>> No. 97363
File 133463152820.jpg - (15.97KB , 500x243 , G1XTM.jpg )
97363
>>97355
I was talking about his initial post only. He only made those suggestions after he was asked too.

I'm not saying his opinion is invalid (I even said that the IRC is a timesink, which is why I don't go on there much anymore), just that if he was really interested in bringing about the change he wants, he should have been more proactive and less confrontational in his approach.
>> No. 97364
>>97362
Eh... "younger" was metaphorical, as Times New Roman is a lot more streamlined-looking than Georgia.
>> No. 97365
>>97311
In addition to the derails, the shit storms that pop up on schedule every two months irk me.

Also, fucking computers. They decide "Oh, you have important tests coming up and essays due? Here, let me stop working."
>> No. 97366
>>97362
That's why it's like the skinny, hot slut of a younger sister of Georgia.

And what you said also implies that Times New Roman is more experienced at what it does. Dohohohoho!
>> No. 97369
>>97366
You don't get to be the default font of Microsoft Word for over a decade and then get ignored by the populace.

On that note, fuck Calibri, too. 1.15 line spacing can stay.
>> No. 97371
>>97369
This is why I write in Comic Sans
>> No. 97374
>>97371
Fuck all the sans serif fonts.
>> No. 97398
File 133463505100.png - (316.27KB , 626x564 , 1026 - angry twilight_sparkle.png )
97398
Terran nukes a few dozen reviews from the queue, single-handedly saving it from a point where several reviewers stated it was ready to implode.

Terran hopes others will be inspired, and man up accordingly. I reluctantly admit I was nearly inspired to start reviewing, but made excuses for myself and didn't.

Terran comes here and rightfully asks "What gives?"

A few other posters have the gall to tell him he has no right to have an attitude, that he's all talk and no action (what the flying feather), and then tell him to GTFO.

So, I guess Terran shaming me wasn't enough for me to join TTG. Turns out it required MUCH RAEG VERY YES. brb claiming fic.
>> No. 97421
>>97398
>that he's all talk and no action
>then tell him to GTFO.
Who the hell said that? Don't make crap up to support an argument. You're just weakening your stance and making yourself an antagonist on top of being a liar.

And yes, if he comes in and insults people off the cuff, then he's going to make people mad, who have every right to be irate about it. He has valid points--I don't think anyone is questioning the problem at hand--but he voiced them in a way that's unconstructive, degrading and inflammatory while making broad, sweeping generalizations. That is no way to go about enacting change, that's a way to get banned.
I'm speaking from experience here. I'm something of an expert on changing the status quo in these parts.
>> No. 97422
File 133463750353.png - (59.32KB , 501x736 , 131171385532.png )
97422
>>97346 >>97356 >>97359 >>97361 >>97371 >>97374
> mfw
http://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/im-comic-sans-asshole
>> No. 97423
>>97371
Comic Sans and other wonky fonts actually improve reading comprehension and retention. Since you have to think more to parse the word's meaning, you're more likely to understand and remember it since you put more of your brain's processing power into it.
>> No. 97425
>>97422
Notice how he doesn't say shit about Times New Roman.

You know why?

Because he's scared.
>> No. 97426
I thought of something else, and I figured since I have two essays I need to be writing before tomorrow, I'm going to procrastinate. Brace for wall of text.

I think my biggest annoyance has more to do with me than anything else. I find that the main reason I enjoy writing is to be able to share stories with people. I enjoy seeing what others produce, and it makes me ecstatic when others genuinely enjoy my work. Yet, with fanfiction for this, or really any fanfiction at all, I can't do that. There's only about one person I know that is even into this show, and the few attempts I made to show them my work didn't pan out. I've made a few attempts at writing some stuff and throwing it at a few reviewers to hammer it out, but I've ultimately lost the drive for any of those ideas as I have no one to share ideas with.

For instance, me and a close friend have a mutual interest in visual novels. We want to create one together since they're a great artist and we both have some skill in writing. Right now, we're working on little mini-projects to familiarize ourselves with the program we're using. We see each other in class every week, and we share notes about the stories and characters and everything else. We keep each other motivated.

However, with MLP fanfiction, I'm kinda stuck. There's no one I know personally that writes who I can go to and earnestly share ideas and whatnot with. I just sit around by myself and throw ideas around in my head, but it never gets me anywhere. I may come up with a decent start to a story or some random scene, but without being able to bounce the ideas off of someone and get another viewpoint, I don't get much done.

I don't really mind if no one reads what I write. I wrote a pokemon fic a long time ago between a boy named Clement and a male Gardevoir named Aluxes. It never really drew much of anyone, and I realize now it was because it was kinda bad, but there were one or two people who honestly wanted to keep reading it. However, after the story stagnated in my head for a while, I ended up not continuing it. I feel horrible that I let those few down, and I don't want the same thing to happen with this. The audience is something you should never write for, because you can never appeal to everyone's tastes equally. There will always be people who don't enjoy some aspect of your story or writing, and that's fine. I have my own tastes so I can understand why it happens. While I don't care that only a few people read my work, I do care about the people that enjoyed it.

I guess what it all boils down to is that I've never been able to share with anyone I know about my writing, and so I've never been able to enjoy writing. If I feel this way, I'm certain there's others who share this same feeling. Yes, I know, there's the StoryForge thread, but that's more about ideas you have but don't want to write. There really isn't someplace for people to go and have discussions about ideas they do want to write, which I think is probably the main thing we should be focusing on.

As for a solution, would making a thread be a good idea? I'd rather not create something that would ultimately just lead to board clutter. Are there any more writers who share my sentiments and would enjoy a thread?
>> No. 97430
This is going to sound like an odd annoyance, but I really don't like subjectivity. I know there's nothing I can do about it, but I still don't like it.

(rambling begins now)

I'm a math major in college right now. I'm used to problems having one or very few solutions. But writing is so much more complex.

Am I using the right word? Is my style good? Is this plot believable? What about the flow? What's the best way to convey what I want in this scene? Is my writing unique and different? Or is it just bad?

My writing style tends to be simple. I only briefly describe the setting. I explore simple concepts and conflicts, rather than writing huge, complex epics. Does this mean I'm not as good of a writer? Or that I just tend to have my own focus and style?

There's no definite answer to any of these questions. I wish there were. All I can do is keep writing and hope for the best.

Anyways, end rambling.
>> No. 97431
>>97421
Number of reviewers that Terran inspired to start reviewing with his condemnation: 1

Number of reviewers that you've inspired to start reviewing with your brown-nosing the mods and acting like you run /fic/: 0


Just saying, you disagree with his methods, but he's got a higher turnabout than you.
>> No. 97437
>>97425
Yeah I'll bet he is.

You know what font EoP was written in?

Yeah. Large volumes of text written in TNR are like myriad cybernetic ants constructing an elaborate high-speed brain tunnel that will either dehydrate your vitreous humor and make your eye sockets bleed or give you the ride of your life.
>> No. 97440
>>97426
Have you tried the Samurai? If his posts are any guide, he is perfect for the job.
>> No. 97442
>>97422
Hehehe. This is why I write signs in Impact or Jokerman. Because then they aren't just irksome, they're illegible.
>> No. 97444
>>97440
Er, what exactly do you mean? Perfect as in perfect to reflect ideas with?

>>97437
I find myself never really noticing the font the story is written in if it's written well enough. I get into it and let myself go along with the story. I don't really think font can be used to measure the goodness of a story, but some are certainly more aesthetically pleasing than others.
>> No. 97446
File 133464011535.png - (538.46KB , 410x2048 , Subjectivity.png )
97446
>>97430
>Am I using the right word?
Does it adequately convey the meaning according to either the dictionary or a common vernacular with your audience? If yes, yes. If no, no.

>Is my style good?
Does it get in the way of your intended meaning of the narrative? If no, yes. If yes, no.

>Is this plot believable?
Is everything explained adequately? If yes, yes. If no, no.

>What about the flow?
This is more about balance, really; just don't take too long to get to the good parts of the story and you should be fine.

>What's the best way to convey what I want in this scene?
Succinctly and adequately.

>Is my writing unique and different? Or is it just bad?
Probably the former unless you've got years of practice.

>Does this mean I'm not as good of a writer? Or that I just tend to have my own focus and style?
The two aren't mutually exclusive; however, there are reasons that certain conventions such as "show, don't tell," and "grammar" come about: they let you tell your story in a way that other people don't instantly hate.

>There's no definite answer to any of these questions.
It's harder to make a computer algorithm to discern the "flowiness" of a story, but there are objective measures of quality of fiction.

Apologies, but your tone comes across as excusing yourself of any responsibility for improvement.
>> No. 97449
>>97446

My apologies. I did not mean to come off that way. I am constantly looking to improve my writing. I was just kind of rambling.
>> No. 97451
>>97440
I've been in contact with him... every now and then. Last I communicated with him was a little over a week ago, and he was as helpful as ever. He helped me find what was holding me back in the creative process. Amazing. I had a great time playing a word game he introduced me to as well, which helped me in that regard, if I may boast.

Off-topic but important: however, he's probably not going to be spending much more time around Ponychan. His goal was to get the ball rolling on a self-sustaining community that could foster healthy critique and encouragement of each other's creative writing. I say let's do his tireless efforts justice.
>> No. 97452
>>97451
Would making a thread be a good idea then? I would love to have a place where people can come together and help each other flesh out ideas, and I think if enough people came by, it would be a largely productive thread.
>> No. 97453
>>97452
From what I can tell, there's either the Storyforge or the IRC for advice; no one really took notice of my offer to do the same thing in >>96408.
>> No. 97454
>>97453
I guess what I was envisioning was the storyforge but backwards. Bring ideas you're enthusiastic about writing, and other people will earnestly help you flesh them out or some such. I just don't know how well that would work, or even if that's what the story forge also functions as.

Also, my apologies for cluttering the thread with off topic chatter.
>> No. 97456
>>97451
So you are saying not to email him with your whole packet of story ideas?

I am sure he will tell you if he can't spare the time...
>> No. 97458
>>97456
Heh. Well my friend, I never said he wouldn't kindly offer his help via email or some other means than Ponychan if asked ;-)

And yes, it's for him to say.
>> No. 97460
>>97431
>Number of six-star stories inspired by my work: 1
>Number of six-star stories inspired by his work: 0
>Number of six-star stories inspired by your work: 0, although you have a creepy shipfic
Just saying that baseless and unrelated comparisons don't prove anything other than show that you've got nothing to field.
>you disagree with his methods
I want things to improve, just like he does. I'm reviewing his approach and providing feedback so that he can more effectively bring it about. You could even say he inspired me to do that, so we'll add a "2" to your little scoreboard.

>>97451
Heh, I'm getting his help on that myself right now. Hopefully I'm as malleble as you were for him.
>> No. 97463
>>97460
It sounds like he's a busy person. I'm kinda sad I never got the chance to interact with him, but I never posted anywhere due to shyness so I can't really be surprised.
>> No. 97465
>>97463
Well, do what I did and email him, I'm sure he will respond. That said, waiting for a response.
>> No. 97466
>>97465
And I can say from both firsthand experience and conversation, he enjoys trying to helping new writers, with the limiting factor being how much effort you're willing to put into your work.
>> No. 97467
>>97465
Erm, how would I go about obtaining his email address?
>> No. 97468
>>97467
samuraianon315[at sign]gmail.com
>> No. 97471
>>97467
I got it from here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ol5C4f3pACxaXQCsXl3Vf0m4i7SF1dqA23CaboBo39E/edit

Which you can reach from his thread, or go through the various links in the sticky to get, like I did.
>> No. 97472
>>97468
Ah, thank you! Hopefully he doesn't mind random emails, but I assume with his reputation at this point he's used to it?
>> No. 97477
>>97472
Random emails? I can't imagine, but he's got enough life---and literary---experience to fill several books, so I don't think an email asking for advice is going to scare him.

I mean, he reviewed a story where EVE from Wall-E got pregnant. You can't top that.
>> No. 97480
>>97478
Mm, fair enough, though "creepy" is probably less accurate than "missing the point of several key aspects of my story." Anyway, post deleted; I jumped the gun on retorting choler as it's late and I misunderstood your post.
>> No. 97482
File 133464625324.png - (324.39KB , 800x600 , A_Mutually_Beneficial_Arrangement.png )
97482
>>97480
Why do we fight like this? Remember the good old days, back when the anons screamed for our tarred heads on a pike? That was the best.
>> No. 97499
File 133465560012.png - (411.02KB , 640x1080 , at_first_i_was_like pinkamena_diane_pie pinkie_pie.png )
97499
>>97421
It's not my intent to continue the derail, but I find it necessary to defend Terran's actions. To your question, >>97267 and >>97270 respectively.

Anyway. Back on topic. Thanks to the mods for fixing my nubcake triple post @[email protected]

>>97374
This is the correct answer. So very, very much.

Another pet peeve of mine is left-justified, particularly in a narrow width like Word/GDocs with a 12-point font. Any decent-sized word in this format, like Cloudsdale, is easily 3/4". Without any auto-hyphenation, an extremely jagged right margin is inevitable, which I find very distracting when reading. In a wider format like FimFiction, it's more tolerable.

Worse still, exactly zero style guides condone the use of both-justified margins, meaning I'm forced to suffer in silence. Either that, or rebelliously use both-justified in my own fics. Screw the rules, etc.
>> No. 97500
>>97499
And my English teachers in high school would dock points for justified formatting in essays. Fancy that.

(I agree that justification looks better, but I do not find it nearly as painful to read as, say, single point spacing and no empty lines between paragraphs, indent or no.)
>> No. 97501
>>97333
What is HiE?
>> No. 97524
>>97501
Human in Equestria
>> No. 97538
File 133467719703.png - (226.69KB , 640x360 , vlcsnap-2011-01-18-01h20m45s103-(n1295313867953).png )
97538
>>97482
> Why do we fight like this? Remember the good old days, back when the anons screamed for our tarred heads on a pike? That was the best.

Because being a large group of vaguely civilized opinionated bastards on the internet, we start to feel antsy if we haven't picked at each others flaws at least once or twice every few months.
For example, I forgot to check for this month's /meta/ thread...

As for things that annoy me, it's somewhere around clearly knock off stories. 'My Little Dashie but with Fluttershy', TTGL but with Ponies. Anything that hinges on you knowing a completely different work, and just slapping ponies on the end.
>> No. 97558
File 133468530281.png - (367.49KB , 750x720 , 131713545392.png )
97558
Here's an idea...

Why not /fic/ chat actually adopt a rule which goes along the lines of:

"Try to keep discussion on-topic (/fic/, and maybe fanfiction in general?) Straying too far from the topic on multiple occasions is grounds for a warning/kick, and multiple warnings will result in a ban of length x."

I'm not saying it should suddenly become some kind of serious fiction-related chat only thing, but maybe a little more control on how it's used? It is the /fic/ chat after all, I'm sure there are more general channels for other chat and socializing. Then it could be a place for people like Bidoof to come in and talk about stuff, without worrying about getting all sidetracked! There are a lot of really cool people there, and the IRC can be really awesome for quick idea bouncing and fanwank.

Obviously, this won't fix anything if people just go on to other channels to socialize, but truly, I don't think the IRC really is the problem here. I don't know, maybe it is, that's just speculation on my part, but as one of the 'has-beens' who hangs about contributing nothing and being a pain in the ass, I can say that the reason I'm doing that isn't because of the IRC. Sure, it's a time-sink, but I wouldn't have been reviewing anyway.

Also, I don't think it's within anyone's rights to tell someone to stop doing things because of responsibilities to TTG. TTG is volunteer-run, and volunteers by definition don't have an obligation to review at all. I could understand if there was some contract which all new reviewers volunteered to abide to which said something like that, but there isn't. People who want to socialize should be absolutely free to do so.

However, where we do have jurisdiction as the general community of /fic/ is (or should be, since it has /fic/'s name on it) is the /fic/ IRC. If we have a rule like this, it makes sure that it doesn't become a timesink for people who go there for quick advice or a fiction-related chat, and keeps it as a useful tool instead of a hindrance.

Again, I don't think this rule really needs to be enacted, but if people from the IRC say that it is distracting them from reviewing then I think it would be a pretty good solution.

Just a suggestion! Please don't attack me...
>> No. 97561
>>97538
You mean the "Burn Ion!" /meta/ thread? There hasn't been one of those for ages.

Improper dialogue punctuation still gets me.
>> No. 97563
>>97561
Funnily, I was the one to start that thread as well.
>> No. 97564
>>97558
>Another day, let's see if this passes.
I believe the easiest is just to stop calling it /fic/ because you are no more /fic/ than /fimfiction/ where a lot of the guys there are anyway. If you don't want to review or do anything related to /fic/ then calling yourselves the /fic/ IRC is misrepresentation. You say you don't review for reasons other than the IRC, proving my point you guys simply don't care to do what /fic/ is about and thus have no right to be calling yourselves that.

>>97482
Because you act (acted?) like a dick most of the time and he wants nothing to do with that? It's not that hard to figure out.

In general, I just find this place to be a gigantic hypocrisy hole of people giving lame excuses for claiming to be something they are not and acting like that's alright. Bullshit, I don't care how much you say you aren't obligated to do it, if you aren't going to be doing what you are allegedly joined over to do it makes you plain out liars and <redacted>. Damn, I say that if you are in the IRC and come over for a review not giving anything back they just erase your post, you are just a self-righteous leech.
>> No. 97567
File 133468812717.png - (254.91KB , 680x658 , a71.png )
97567
>>97564
It's called /fic/ because that's where /fic/ regulars go to. If you ask, you shall recieve. Just because they're not poring over self-entitled author X's story with a magnifying glass and a toothbrush every waking second doesn't change that.

>Implying I was alone in that
Believe me, it was a team effort.

LOOK AT ME! I CAN TOSS OUT RANDOM ACCUSATIONS!
I can't even quite tell what it is you're complaining whining about.
>> No. 97570
>>97567
> If you ask, you shall recieve.
Not true. Any newcomer recieves at best ten minutes of partial attention before diverting into people talking about video games and personal BS, only if you are a regular do you get any decent help (aka, people who are already part of the group). I would know, I spend a good amount of time there. Yep, amazing how you can use two names, or even three, in ponychan and the IRC. So no, /fic/ helps itself in a self perpetuating jerk, not the board other newcomers. What's more, I could easily claim you are just /fimfiction/ regulars because, surprise-surprise, you are for the most part all there and would carry about pretty much the same. In other words, you are no more /fic/ than just a group of <redacted> even if you tried erasing that from the internet (have a copy by the way, just thought you might like hearing that). Worse still, there isn't even a link to get there, which goes back to my Malaysia comment: if you guys aren't doing anything related to /fic/ other than saying you are from /fic/ then keeping the name is as good as those health organizations funded by fast food chains.

Plus, there isn't even a link to the place (thanks god for that) so it's not like it can be access except by the very same people as always. So no, it's not even that you don't pore over stories, it's just that you are not /fic/. So, change the name, cut ties with /fic: and terran won't have anything to bitch over, people can continue to leech of the services they don't help with, and this whole place can stop pretending to care about writing once the whole thing comes crashing down because it was never meant to work and no one cares to make it work. That way we don't have to see people bitching about, the board will return back to normal and we can all be glad it is over.

>Believe me, it was a team effort.
So where many terrible things. And that's irrelevant, it just means he began to know better before he went to the deep end.
>> No. 97572
File 133468972472.png - (253.04KB , 600x700 , 131713703503.png )
97572
>>97564
I think... you did not read... my post...

Also, are you getting angry at me? For calling myself a part of the /fic/ community? I'm confused. The definition of the word 'community' is:

com·mu·ni·ty   [kuh-myoo-ni-tee]
noun, plural com·mu·ni·ties.
A social, religious, occupational, or other group sharing common characteristics or interests and perceived or perceiving itself as distinct in some respect from the larger society within which it exists (usually preceded by the ): the business community; the community of scholars.

I am a part of this community regardless of whether I review or not. Notice how every time I called it the /fic/ community. The slashes are indicative of it referring to this board, on this chan. By posting here I share a characteristic with everyone else (being a poster), and I have a right to call myself a part of this community. This is fact. I'm not sure why you're getting angry about it. (Notice how you've used the slashes incorrectly, as there is no board called /fimficiton/)

Second, I'm not sure why you keep using 'you'. I'm not a representative of the /fic/ IRC channel, I'm not an organizer, I'm not an OP/mod; I'm simply a user. (Also not sure why I'm getting all this beef.)

Third, it is called the /fic/ IRC channel because it is the official IRC channel of the Ponychan /fic/ board. I'm not sure why we're arguing about changing this; it is what it is. That's like saying: "The American Government can't call itself the American Government, it doesn't care about America!" (That wasn't a political jab, by the way, I'm just trying to prove a point.) Just because the members of the /fic/ IRC don't care (or so you say) doesn't make it not the /fic/ IRC. You can't just change its name because its members don't care, because someone will set up another official /fic/ channel and the members would migrate back, seeing as they have every right to do so. (All of them being posters, and therefore members of the /fic/ community. And the /fic/ IRC is for the /fic/ community.) Since the /fic/ IRC is actually a part of the /fic/ community in itself (otherwise it wouldn't be called the /fic/ IRC...) you're kind of accusing /fic/ of not caring about /fic/ and not deserving to call itself /fic/... you see my point? I'm even confusing myself here, but it boils down to: The /fic/ IRC is not a standalone group, it is a part of the /fic/ community. You can't just change its name and tell all IRC members to go off somewhere else.

Fourth, addressing the 'you don't care' accusation, that's also a kinda' strange thing to say. I'm not sure about the others, but myself? I care about /fic/, yes. I would be sad if it suddenly turned into a jumble of PonyFall appreciation and Cupcakes fanfiction threads. However, I don't think caring about /fic/ and not reviewing are mutually exclusive. I just can't review at the moment for reasons which are not relevant to this discussion, and I suggested a change to the /fic/ IRC rules that might help those who are finding it a distraction. You say I don't care to do what /fic/ is about, but /fic/ is about fan/fic/tion. I read fanfiction, I write (Look at our lovely collab!) and I do other odds and ends around he place, reviewing is simply one of the many things this board is about. I can't review, and just because I can't (or don't choose to at the moment) does not make me any less a part of this community. Using that logic, lots of writers who've never reviewed don't belong here; you can see that's wrong, right?

You've just replied with a kind of blind anger for no apparent reason, and haven't furthered discussion or provided constructive criticism. Just provided one suggestion which was basically just a thinly-veiled accusation/insult and obviously not intended to be taken action upon but just as a vehicle to deploy this insult/accusation. You seem to be a little emotionally-charged at the moment.

I recommend you relax, have some tea, think about what it is you'd like to say and type out a civil, polite, coherent response next time.
>> No. 97573
File 133469068319.png - (148.07KB , 763x1140 , 133620 - applejack artist miketheuser heresy Inquisitor ponyhammer Warhammer warhammer_40k.png )
97573
>>97570
Is that what you spend all your time doing? Spying and collecting unprovable evidence just to be a thorn in people's side?
You seem to have your priorities mixed up if you're accusing the #fic goers of wasting their time.

Where the bloody hell does /fimfiction/ tie into this? It's like you're throwing in random crap to muddle the issue before someone sees through your smokescreen.

Copy of what? You're spouting gibberish. I'm having a difficult time keeping track of your illogical points, and even moreso giving a damn.

There was a link before, the new sticky came into being, and now there's no link. I'm sure that if someone asked !!Rarity to add it, it would be (barring the possible issue of having an official link to an unofficial and uncontrolled resource).

The only people "bitching" about it is you and Terran. Not everyone is a soulless reviewing machine like he is. They want someone to kick back for a few and trade laughs. Should they spend all of their time there? No. All things in moderation, after all. But begrudging them such a simple thing as being able to shoot the wind with friends is stupid, plain and simple.

>So where many terrible things. And that's irrelevant, it just means he began to know better before he went to the deep end.
You don't have an inkling of what you're talking about. Your ignorance on the matter serves no end and only shows how little care and consideration is going into your argument, instead relying on limp and unfounded insults to open past scars. It would be best for all of those involved if you didn't bring up it again.
>> No. 97574
File 133469189187.jpg - (14.59KB , 302x267 , 131698020224.jpg )
97574
>>97570
I also find it hard to believe you are a regular visitor of the IRC.

But what I believe doesn't matter, the truth matters. Please provide dated, time-stamped logs of the events you describe taking place and then we can discuss the issue. Otherwise we are arguing over baseless accusations, and if we're going to do that, I'd rather accuse Ion-Sturm of being the author of 'Pattycakes'. And then we can tease him for it.

Seriously though, if something like that is happening that is bad. And we should take measures against it. (Especially before lobbying for the link to be re-added to the sticky!)
>> No. 97576
>>97572
Cute. You actually think I'm angry. Don't worry, just lurk more, I'm sure you will learn a bit or two.

Now, let's see:
>Angry at you
Refer to the first part, but if you need an answer, no, can't waste my time being angry with you.

>Defintion of community
Even more cutsey.

>The IRC channel being for all of /fic/
Which began, and allegedly remained until you said otherwise, a place for reviewers to join heads and talk with each other or writers who needed the help. But of course, my mistake, I must have missed all the other subcommunities of this place there, silly me right?. BS, something that you know, but let me humor you for now.

>Thinking that you is singular in this case
You is also a plural, something you should also know, but I think the more important thing is that you aren't important enough to warrant a singular. Ion-sturm? Sure, he even has a rule aimed at his head. Pascoite? Sure, he actually posts here. Octavia? Him too, he practically runs the TCB thread. The Samurai? Aren't we in this mess because he sold everyone a bridge? You? You normally keep away from everything to the point it is funny. So don't worry about that you.

>Hey, tautology
For starters, it isn't any more official than the #ttg-nsfw because it's just as user created than anything else, or we don't count that one? As for your tautology, look up tautology and notice how claiming something is something because people say it is is called a circular argument. Those don't work, specially since you begin with a statement and prove it with itself.

>Caring
You rarely post. Most people there don't post. Hell, most are so tenuously connected to the community I could make a bot to react to keywords with the very same canned responses and we would have lost nothing. You don't want to review? Awesome, but if you never post, you don't ever comment except to make small quips, and you don't bother when things are about to collapse, sorry, you don't care and if you did care you are a terrible person for not doing anything. And yes, I find every single person who hasn't reviewd a despicable person because they dare use someone's time and give nothing back, so much so I still stand you should just erase non-contributors posts as the leeches they are. Hell, if half the things they say about the Samurai are true, he is the single most leech-of person in the board and I can only be happy for him abandoning you guys because, despite the fact he caused all this mess, he at least seems to actually help people by offering his advice, no matter how small because he knows why he tried to organize /fic/ (again, the IRC began from hearts and grew from there, so no, it's not for the rank and file of /fic/). As for your collab, it failed last time and it started pretty much the same way, so that proves nothing other than you happily letting the place burn while you have fun.

>Not furthering discussion
At this point there is nothing to further, the fact is that terran here tried giving you a lease in live and you squander it. The fact is that what you allegedly fear for /fic/ is currently held by people who are about to collapse themselves. Fact is that there is no sign that the people, locked in an IRC room none but those linked there or actively hunting down can access. Fact is that the IRC stopped being about /fic/ many moons ago and you just keep the name because admitting that there is nothing to connect you to this place would be to admit that you don't care.

So no, don't try to BS me Sparky.

So I suggest you go drink tea, finish your exams, and stop trying to pull the wool over my face, it doesn't suit you.

>Writing in phone is a pain...
>> No. 97582
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97582
So, um, question...I don't mean to sound like a dick, but...why are we assuming that all /fic/ is about or can offer is reviewing, or that one must be reviewing to be any sort of use here? I mean, I don't know about you, but I really like threads that inspire writing in other ways like prompts or discussions of craft or compendiums of certain genres...Those are valid too, right?
>> No. 97583
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>>97576
>Implying that everyone in /fic/ is a reviewer
And here I was thinking that people had actually dropped this silly idea by now.

I've never considered myself a reviewer nor called myself one. I dabbled in it occasionally to test the waters and ended up spending about 1 hour per thousand words reviewed. The main reason why I wasn't satisfied, though, was because in most cases I was unable to say anything nice or encouraging to the author. Without sugar-coating and lying through the teeth, I simply wasn't able to say anything positive after spending 5 hours reading something I considered to be incredibly sub-par and littering the document with about 200 comments. The end result was that I don't feel I helped the author at all, and may have even hindered them, just because of the mostly negative things I had to say.

I'm not a reviewer, because I cannot adequately help those that need it.

I hang out in #fic because that is where /fic/ people hang out---and not all /fic/ people are reviewers.

My participation in the community is more around collaboration and getting people to do stuff and keeping a generally positive attitude about everything---which is why I can't review in the typical sense; it just makes me nasty. If someone wants direct help on their works, they can go to #ttg. #ttg is the channel for discussion of writing technique, mechanics, etc.

Well, that's my spiel.
>> No. 97589
Here's my take.

I am a member of the /fic/ community. I don't review, because I just can't stand it. I don't think that someone asking for a review deserves my half-assed attempt at one. I only ever do reviews from time to time, mainly when i'm in the mood. I never promised to review, though. This doesn't stop me from being a /fic/ member.

Rather than take it upon myself to review, I do other things instead. I try starting collabs and interesting discussions. I like to find threads which are 'any tips for new writers' because I like to help people in a way that I know I can. I'm no master of literature, but what I do know I share.

At the end of the day, the irc is merely an irc. Pretty much every irc for every community turns into a cliquey sort of thing for regulars, but whatever. The most important thing about this board is continuing Samurai's and Vimbert's legacy. there legacy though, is not creating review threads. There legacy is to create an atmosphere where literature can be criticized in a helpful manner which helps authors, without becoming insulting. This entire thread had turned into the exact opposite of what /fic/ is supposed to be about. It's turned into mudslinging and emotional butt hurt.

What the heck guys?
>> No. 97590
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97590
>>97576
Well, gee. You sure sound angry.

>...waste my time being angry with you.
Insults like these make you sound angry.

>subcommunities
Which all make up the general community that is /fic/...?

>You is also a plural, something you should also know, but I think the more important thing is that you aren't important enough to warrant a singular.
Wow, geez, okay dude. My mistake. But let me just repost some phrases that you posted just to point out why I made this honest mistake:
>...you are no more /fic/ than /fimfiction/ where a lot of the guys there are anyway.
>If you don't want to review...
>then calling yourselves the /fic/ IRC is misrepresentation.
Sure, okay. But then you throw in:
>You say you don't review for reasons other than the IRC...
See, that's obviously addressed to me, which when mixed in with all these plural yous towards all those bigger, more-important guys that you consider worth your time, could throw me off a little. Maybe you should have made that a little clearer before insulting people for not understanding your point?

>...#ttg-nsfw because it's just as user created than anything else, or we don't count that one?
No, we don't, because it specifically says it's the unofficial branch of #ttg.

>As for your tautology, look up tautology and notice how claiming something is something because people say it is is called a circular argument.
Okay, fine. Let's say we called it #fanfiction. Please explain to me how this would get the reviewers to leave and start writing more of the all-important reviews that the channel is apparently keeping them from writing?

>And yes, I find every single person who hasn't reviewed a despicable person because they dare use someone's time and give nothing back,
Wha... Use who's time? I'm so confused. So are the writers who hang out here despicable too?

>...erase non-contributors posts as the leeches they are.
So, if /fic/ was the way you wanted it, there would be some kind of merit-system where you could only talk if you reviewed? I'm not arguing, I'm just trying to figure out what you actually want.

>Hell, if half the things they say about the Samurai are true, he is the single most leech-of person
I don't even... Really, I'm so confused. Hasn't Samurai been reviewing for people since the very beginning?

>As for your collab, it failed last time and it started pretty much the same way, so that proves nothing other than you happily letting the place burn while you have fun.
I was just throwing that in as an example. Sure, it went balls-up, but it was fun. I'm happy we did it.
And I do write other things, you know. That was kind of what I was trying to say, /fic/ isn't just about reviews. Otherwise it would be /review/.

>At this point there is nothing to further
But... then why are you posting... What's the point of all this? I thought you're saying this to make some change happen?

>Fact is that the IRC stopped being about /fic/ many moons ago and you just keep the name because admitting that there is nothing to connect you to this place would be to admit that you don't care.
Okay, if we're going to start pointing fingers and accusing each other of 'not caring', then let's at least acknowledge that caring is not binary. Maybe I don't care for /fic/ as much as I did some time ago, but it doesn't mean that I don't care.

I'm just confused now. I'm not even sure what to say. I posted a suggestion on how to improve things and you come at me with all these condescending... I'm not even sure. I guess they're arguments, but they don't seem to be for any cause. What I was expecting was for some people to suggest why my rule wouldn't help, or why it was too controlling or how it would be too difficult to enforce. Maybe some people saying that it was a good idea. Instead, I get... I'm not sure. Someone suggesting something which he obviously didn't expect to be acted upon, but just a way to hide insults at many of the most prominent figures on the board. I'm not even too sure why you made it a response to my post, it would have been fine on its own, if that was what you wanted achieve with your post.

Y'know, the biggest problem with /fic/ right now? I don't think it's people chatting on the IRC. I don't think it's Ion-Sturm being sharp-tongued to newcomers.
I think it's this. Maybe it's just me, but I remember /fic/ being much more... friendly. I don't know.
Hey, maybe you're right. I don't contribute much. Maybe I'm just lying to myself. Maybe I don't really care.

Is caring a requirement for being here though? Ah, I don't even know what we're discussing any more. I think you're right; I'm wasting your time. And I'm wasting my time. This isn't achieving anything.
>> No. 97591
>>97576

Hm. Masks wearing masks fail to amuse me.
>> No. 97592
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>>97576
>And yes, I find every single person who hasn't reviewd a despicable person because they dare use someone's time and give nothing back, so much so I still stand you should just erase non-contributors posts as the leeches they are.

Thankfully, you don't make site policy.

In any case, I'm a bit perplexed here. I remember not long ago people from the Training Grounds were complaining about having too much workload and needing to shut the thread down.

And yet here, I'm hearing that nobody in the Training Grounds thread is actually doing reviews to begin with.

This is... rather disconcerting to me.
>> No. 97594
>>97592
OP here, can we lock this thread? It seems that everything that needs to be said has been said, and the rest is just shouting.
>> No. 97595
>>97590
>Ah, I don't even know what we're discussing any more. I think you're right.
No. Seriously. Fuck this guy. /fic/ is more than just reviewers and reviewing.

He even snarked about your collab for no good reason.

Gee, okay, you god dam buzzkill, let's all just be fucking librarians and do nothing but review all day. Fuck trying anything new.

Yeah, shit flops all the time. Does that mean we should never try new things? Fail once, try harder. Fail twice, try twice as hard.

I thought this was the image that everyone was trying to remove from /fic/.
>> No. 97597
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>>97594

Fair enough.
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