...I don't think so no, there are still enough who even remember the horrors he helped make possible.
I don't think there's a way to be forgiven for that if you really realise what he's done.

it isn't my place to forgive him. it's up to the people he hurt and their descendants

Honestly? I don't know how to feel. Members of my family were in those camps, and not just the Jewish side.

If anything, honestly, I feel like everything that they did is unforgivable. It wasn't just the systematic killing of over 6 million people, it wasn't just all the war crimes, but there was the added crime of re-purposing of pagan icons and Germanic imagery for their own aims that's despicable too. Sure he's going to say sorry to the Jews, but what about all the Slavs, Brits, and the rest that got killed by the Nazi war machine? What about the fact that the Elder Futhark are forever going to be inextricably connected(tangentially, but still connected) with Nazism for some? What about all the art and culture the Nazis destroyed?

He cannot stand trial for it all, and what his organization did has forever robbed or corrupted important cultural icons. So no, I don't forgive him. I don't condemn him either, he's just a cog in a machine that caused genocide on a global scale, and he can't apologize for it all. To assume he can is arrogant and missing the whole point of why the Nazis were so terrible.

Done nothing bad to my stuff so I have no reason to be mad at him.

But laws are laws.
There is no going around.

pretty much this >>39803569

it's not my place to do so

I've always had some sympathy for the "I was just following orders" argument. He didn't make the plans, and he was obeying the laws he was under at the time. Perhaps he had a moral imperative to refuse to work there, but I don't think they should charge him with accessory to murder all this time later. Especially since I believe prison is more about protecting society than it is about punishment, and I'm pretty sure Oskar Gröning's days of killing Jews are over.

>>39803568
You also have to realize that not all of the Nazi regime agreed with Hitler's orders and ideas.
He might've been forced to oblige. Otherwise he would've been seen as an enemy.

Last edited at Tue, Apr 21st, 2015 11:51

>>39803576
to be fair the nazi's were prolly balling their eyes out when they lost the war

and on top of that Germany was in control by USA and Britain and East Germany controlled by the USSR

trust me, hitler killed himself buried in salt and would roll in his grave seeing how his army lost so badly

>>39803594
>He might've been forced to oblige. Otherwise he would've been seen as an enemy.
Historically, no. They were permitted to not involve themselves in the camps if they chose.

Many didn't like what was going on so they were transferred elsewhere.

>>39803595
Well, that's kind of what happens when you declare war on pretty much the entire world. I really don't know what he thought would happen.

I think, at the age of 93, almost over 70 years after WW2, it's a bit late for trials.

Besides, despite from the atrocities and all, those were wartimes in a Zeitgeist of distant past. If that person has not been doing crimes against other people for 50 years now, he should be forgiven.

Last edited at Tue, Apr 21st, 2015 11:58

>>39803608
hitlers dumbass legit thought he was gonna win

I can't forgive him, as he never did anything to me. That's up to the people he treated like he did.

If what he said is true, then he was just the bookkeeper and had nothing to do with the killing.
He requested to move away, but was denied multiple times because it was his duty to be there.
If he had been more loudly about it, chances are that he would have been killed.
Charging him for the deaths of 300,000 seems a little too much for me, and Im pretty sure that what he saw has hunted him every night for 70 years.

>>39803613
lol, what a scrub. Didn't he learn anything from Napoleon? (who was a way better dictator)

>>39803608
>try peace with Britain
>Churchill is an asshat
>Soviets are aiming to invade Europe
>already moved in Romania and other places before operation Barbarossa and amassed millions of troops on the border
>janks were sending tons of weapons to the soviets and britain with lend lease

Funny mustache guy just upset the power balance between east and west and got burned accordingly.

>>39803608
In Hitler's defense, if Japan hadn't done Pearl harbour, it would have taken a while for the US to actively do anything.

Last edited at Tue, Apr 21st, 2015 12:01

Is there any reason not to forgive him? He'll probably die within a couple years. What reason is there to even ask the question of whether you forgive a dead person?

>>39803612
Honestly, he was probably a rank and file too. Nobody special. The dude isn't like, Himmler or Goebbels. He's probably wasn't even in the SS or anything. Charging him for the crimes is stupid and honestly a bit insulting.

>>39803616
Now I feel like he shouldn't even be tried. Dude was a bookkeeper. How can the deaths of hundreds of thousands be put on his head? It's absurd. And it only gives credence to Anti-Semites if this trial happens. This is ammo for white power groups.

He hurt no one and was an irrelevant wheel in the machinery. They act like they caught the big bad when in fact they are putting a small fish on trial.

>>39803618
he hasnt i guess

>>39803620
actually i think (dont quote me on this i might be wrong) was because Britain asked for our help because hitler was shitting on them

Last edited at Tue, Apr 21st, 2015 12:05

>>39803621
To be fair, it must suck massively to live most of your life as a free and respected individual, only to be tried to rot in jail at the end of your life and die as a mass murderer hated by millions.

Actually the real question is...
do our judgments mean anything?

The dead will be still dead.

>>39803630
Well

>>39803626

>>39803622
He became a bank clerk at 17.
The war glamour made him join SS where he worked as a SS salary administration for a year, before the higher ranks decided that it was a job for injured soldiers.
So they reminded him of some propaganda and sent him to a place he had never heard about, Auschwitz.

>>39803619
I can understand why Britain wouldn't just let him keep France and half of Poland, though it is interesting that they turned a blind eye to the Soviets invasion of Poland. Hitler's main mistake was declaring war on the USSR and the US. The US might have come into war against Germany anyway, but Germany wasn't obliged to declare after Japan declared.

>>39803625
FDR wanted to go in before Pearl Harbor, but it took Pearl Harbor to change the American public's opinion on war with Germany.

>>39803634
That is the point.
The current system pulls out the heretics and burns them.

It's a show of force, nothing else.

>>39803635
And he was the accounts man there?

[something about following orders and not being in charge]

Why is this guy on trial again? What could he have done that wouldn't simply result in him getting replaced by somepony else?

Was he actually in a position to change anything?

>>39803625
>>39803620
The United States enacted Lend Lease for the explicit purpose of helping the allies against Germany, even before Pearl Harbor.
Public opinion was against going to war initially and there was strong anti-war vibes with the feeling that it was Europe's war, not ours. Roosevelt however wanted to get involved, so even had Japan not attacked, had the war gone on longer Roosevelt would have probably managed to convince people.
Even if the US had not entered the war on the military front, the materiel we supplied was more than significant. In fact, it was this materiel that helped the Soviets actually hold out long enough for their own production to actually kick in.

When people look at World War 2, they almost always either overvalue American military contribution and/or undervalue American economic contribution to the war.

>>39803636
It's debatable that Roosevelt wanted to incite Pearl Harbor. If you look at military analysis, they basically knew if we cut oil experts then Japan would be FORCED to go to war. Not 'want' to. Forced to.

The United States literally was Japan's sole source of fuel, which is pretty much why Japan stood no fucking chance in prolonged war with the US.
The US had more fuel in Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1941 than Japan had in the entire war.
If Japan had launched a third-wave and targeted the oil fields (Not oil fields, containers, whatever. Storage of oil, is the point), it's very likely the United States would have had to pull the pacific fleet back to San Francisco and abandoned Pearl Harbor as a military outpost, delaying the United States for months or even a year.
However, Yamamoto did not trust that the American carriers were missing and retreated for fear of counter-attack.

I find the greater implications of that pretty interesting, but my point rather is that things were eventually going to happen anyway. Japan had almost no option.

Last edited at Tue, Apr 21st, 2015 12:18

>>39803648
Vindication for all the people who saw their family die.

>>39803648
To keep the ghost of "ebil facists" alive.

>>39803642
Yes.

>>39803625
Europe asked for help multiple times, but the US population believed that they should stay out of it.
The US president even wanted to help Europe, but he couldnt do it because he had everybody against him.

>>39803657
Actually, I'd agree with that. They want to keep the Nazi Ghost alive, and use it as an excuse to pull all kinds of BS, which gives white power groups and fascist groups legitimized reasons to feel oppressed. In a lot of ways this is going to do more for the pro-Nazi groups than the anti-Nazi groups.

>>39803662
That's even more bullshit then. This really is just a farce.

>>39803652
There was the entire power struggle and all that. Germany was big and influential and that was not a good thing to have for russia or the US. So yes, there's a lot of backstage going ons in wars and sooner or later, the US would have been involved anyways.

And yes, war is good for weapon sale stuff.

But still, not sure if Hitler asked for the US to join in actively, while they were busy keeping Russia at bay. I'd wager he rather wanted US to stay on their own continent for a while longer.

>>39803663
Yeah.
I'm glad for the jackboots.

Did they not heard the story about "the boy who cried wolf"?

>>39803594

Then what they did is even less forgiveable, blaming your own failings on the orders of another is something for a dog, not a human.

If there were any forcing involved it'll be taken into account, but the nazi regime enjoyed broad support, broader even than is often portrayed as there were far too many to purge without comitting yet another genocide.
So any such force is unlikely to be a strong point.

Last edited at Tue, Apr 21st, 2015 12:26

>>39803652
yet another reason why murrika is number 1

>>39803652

>When people look at World War 2, they almost always either overvalue American military contribution and/or undervalue American economic contribution to the war.

This.

America's glory on the battlefield was rather limited even, a mere look at which side the germans lost the most on illustrates that pretty well.
(for every 10 dead germans 9 died on the eastern front)

For the soviet union it was rather the other way around, pillagers and looters but damn good fighters.

Last edited at Tue, Apr 21st, 2015 12:32

>>39803664
Germany didn't have a choice, really.

You ever hear of Operation Sea Lion?
The German plan to take Britain? Using fucking River Tugboats? Which were vital for the German economy and was thus considered so utterly stupid that it was impossible?
That was their only shot.

Germany had no way to at all stop America from doing whatever the fuck it wanted. That was the real issue. Germany literally could only clench its anus tight and hope America didn't get involved. War between them was inevitable. Material goods were flowing anyway, so it's not like the impact wasn't already in effect.

Again, weapons and materiel was way more important.

>>39803672
USA USA USA USA USA USA

>>39803652
I've heard conspiracy theories that go even further that say that FDR specifically put those ships their so they would get attacked, though I don't really put much stock in that. Japan's military ambitions definitely made clash with the US or Britain inevitable. I saw a map a while ago that showed British and American holdings at the time, and Japan basically had no where they could expand that wasn't owned or guaranteed by one of them, except for I guess further into China which isn't as valuable. But it would have been interesting if Germany distanced themselves from Japan after Pearl Harbor and didn't declare war on the US, I wonder if America still would have entered the war against Germany. I remember that Britain only declared war on Japan after The US did.

>>39803672
60 years ago

>>39803671
I would argue why we didn't just righteously torch germany back then and put an end to all the nazi voters as the most morally right decision.

but then i remember that after the war we did have relentless persecution and execution of a sizeable group of people who were accused to have worked with the germans. All morally justified, for sure.

>>39803636
The USSR was weakened by Stalin's purges.
That was the only chance to attack them.

>>39803674
>(for every 10 dead Germans 9 died on the eastern front)
Though a lot of those were from the cold and disease. My great-grandfather actually died in the German army on the eastern frontier not as a direct result of battle. (The records didn't say how exactly)

>>39803679

It was, we'd have been no better than them.
But to say shit a la "Wir haben es nicht gewusst!" or say that nazis weren't elected democratically are pretty silly.

And here the purges of nazis were pretty thorough too.

>>39803681

I'd say that cutting off military supplies is a pretty valid fighting tactic and even with that in mind there's still quite a lot more on the eastern front. :p

Last edited at Tue, Apr 21st, 2015 12:35

As a side note, I kind of feel like World War II is a little bit past its statute of limitations as far as the law is concerned.

>>39803679
still is

deal with it, 3rd worlder

>>39803683
Those don't apply to war crimes afaik.

>>39803683

Plenty of countries don't allow excessive horrors to be forgotten for the law.
If, say, a vampire committed an exceedingly great and cruel massacre 500 years ago and be caught today he'd still sit out the rest of its existence in jail, so to speak.

>>39803677
>I've heard conspiracy theories that go even further that say that FDR specifically put those ships their so they would get attacked, though I don't really put much stock in that.
It's bullshit. FDR didn't have control over fleet deployments, and the ships were there long before the policy to attempt aggressive sanctions against Japan was enacted.

He was aware about what he was doing though. It WAS however, unexpected. If anypony is to blame, it's those in defense of the island. As far back as 1907 people knew the attack would happen on Pearl Harbor. However, they expected sabotage, not an open air assault and thus parked planes wing-to-wing, which is great for dealing with sabotage, but makes them easy targets for bombings.

>Japan's military ambitions definitely made clash with the US or Britain inevitable. I saw a map a while ago that showed British and American holdings at the time, and Japan basically had no where they could expand that wasn't owned or guaranteed by one of them, except for I guess further into China which isn't as valuable
More or less, and it's not that China wasn't. valuable, it's that it was difficult.

>But it would have been interesting if Germany distanced themselves from Japan after Pearl Harbor and didn't declare war on the US
There would have had to be some major shit for that to happen. There was some real cooperation between those two.

> I wonder if America still would have entered the war against Germany
Most likely, FDR and Churchill shared a relative, and FDR was very explicit in his love of Britain. If the war had gone on long enough, something would have forced the role, even if it was to ensure that debts be paid and the side we supported won. Money motivates very well.

>>39803679
America's status as the world's sole superpower says otherwise.

Last edited at Tue, Apr 21st, 2015 12:38

>>39803684
How's social welfare treating you?

Actually won't I be banned for my opinion?

>>39803689
the mod will come swiftly.

it was nice knowing you.

>>39803690
Damn.

>>39803689

I don't think there's any bannable opinions here, just don't keep repeating it endlessly without reason or expect to convince others if it's excessively ...eh... silly..

>>39803694
Note taken.
Thanks!

I was just wondering.
I kinda like the place already.

>>39803688

Ya could also comment on the gun deaths, lasting racial unrest, state of general infrastructure, spread of wealth, cost of education and the fact that they've managed to piss off more countries in less than a hundred years than Europe has managed to piss off during its rather longer lasting imperial years.

>>39803696

Yeah, can imagine.
Sometimes it's slightly round-table discussion-y here but it doesn't get as bad as some other places... though there's of course things that'll raise some eyebrows even here.

Last edited at Tue, Apr 21st, 2015 12:46

>>39803688
what social welfare?

are you jellymad 3rd worlder? :^)

>>39803694
So I shouldn't try to advance my theory that Adolf Hitler and Charlie Chaplin were actually the same person?

>>39803680
It may have been their best chance, but it still wasn't a great idea, especially with England still being a pest.

>>39803706

No no you should, just don't spam about it is all.

>Ya could also comment on the gun deaths
when will liberal autists learn

check this out, nancyboy https://mlpchan.net/oat/res/3266622+50.html

Last edited at Tue, Apr 21st, 2015 12:46

>>39803705
> what social welfare
Exactly.


>>39803694
>>39803696
Honestly. It's not the opinion itself that is bannable, it's how you'd present it. If you start telling people to fuck off for disagreeing and such, that can get you a ban. (if it goes overboard)
Troll threads on controversial subjects get moved and if you spam them in protest, you might get banned too.

>>39803713

When there's stuff to learn that's not nonsense in general, i mean dude your country's as bad with the gun deaths as fucking Yemen. :p
That's literal third world shit.

Last edited at Tue, Apr 21st, 2015 12:48

>>39803706
Yup.
No matter what I think we have to face it.
Germany is in the middle of Europe.

It was unavoidable to have a two front war.

Also Italy was a joke tier ally like my country.

>>39803704
Sure thing.
Good to know.

>>39803717
Alright. Good to know.
Thanks for the answer.

>>39803717
>>39803723

Yarp, that about covers it.

>>39803717
>Exactly.
that literally proves nothing

>>39803719
>i mean dude your country's as bad with the gun deaths as fucking Yemen

you got proof on that? c'mon let's see it

>>39803728

Do you not have a memory?
The serb from our last gun thread listed and linked that stuff nicely, 4.7 for the U.S. per so many, 4.8 for yemen, 1.2 for serbia and 0.6 for switzerland.
Can't say i remember the exact link though, not sure if i could find it again.


Heck the last time you brought in any proof it looked like somepony hired Korea Kim's propaganda people to do the job, to give you an idea about its biasses. :p

Last edited at Tue, Apr 21st, 2015 12:51

>>39803689
only if you're disruptive when it comes to pushing it.

>>39803679
>I would argue why we didn't just righteously torch germany back then and put an end to all the nazi voters as the most morally right decision.

http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-reasons-youre-picturing-nazis-wrong/

Hitler never won an election. The most he ever got in a popular vote was 42%

>>39803733
because that proves our death statistics in america involving guns

try again, sperglord. with actual proof

>>39803717
And ones history plays in as well.
If one has a bad history, you might get banned if you suddenly say that the Nazis did the right thing in this thread.
If you got no history, it is more likely that you will get your message deleted and get a warning if you say the same thing.
And they will put you on the list for future trouble makers.

>>39803736

...In most non two party systems that wins the election quite easily.

>>39803739

Well yeah that's what i said, gun deaths, so it fits completely.

Also for somepony commenting on autism so much you seem remarkably autistic in your reaction to this subject. :o

Last edited at Tue, Apr 21st, 2015 12:55

>>39803742
Not even then.

Saying that hitler did nothing wrong is within site rules.
Technically.

>>39803742
That sounds reasonable.

Also sorry for the thread derail.

>>39803723
>Also Italy was a joke tier ally like my country
That's for sure. (about Italy. I don't know much about the Hungarian contribution)
Reading about Italy during the war is like reading a comedy. It's hilarious how they failed at everything, and over and over again the Germans would come in and effortlessly succeed where the Italians failed. If my ancestors fought for the bad guys, at least they fought for the competent bad guys.

>>39803736
Did Germany have a twopart system like US or could people vote on more than just two parties?

>>39803747
ok, well if you read the article I linked, you would know that in this case it wasn't.

>>39803747
you are not proving anything besides talking nonsense out your ass

theres something called thinking before you speak. try that next time, eurocuck

>>39803728
Does it not, mikie?

At this point I'd be literally worse off living in the states.
By miles.

>>39803751

>>39803763
your country isnt even a country anyway

you're not relevant to this world at hand

so thats not saying much :^)

Last edited at Tue, Apr 21st, 2015 13:00

>>39803751
He didnt do much right either.

>>39803770
It's literally better to live in a non county than in the US.

Last edited at Tue, Apr 21st, 2015 13:01

>>39803758

I've read enough about it from various sources here, in germany and other english sources.
In general i find the german sources on most anything to be the most reliable, the situation's a slight bit more complex than portrayed in your article.

To say it wasn't democracy is exactly the same nonsense as saying that russian communism wasn't communism.... on top of that i can't say i find cracked to be a very convincing source, but i'll take it seriously for the sake of the argument.

>>39803760

I don't see the point of providing what has been provided before, if you lack the memory for it then that is your problem as to me it makes it seem rather pointless to try to give you anything as you'll lose it again anyway and continue your nonsense.

As to thinking: I suggest you give it a try yourself, it can be quite useful.

>>39803776

Eh, some people prefer the feel of ruins rather than a comfy home.

  >>39803757
I think the main parties were the Nazis, the Communists, and the liberal party (I don't remember it's name).

>how Hitler came to power

>>39803754
Italy had an incredibly corrupt army, their economy was agrarian.

They basically lacked a good economy to back up that crazy war, and their leaders were bros and friends instead of pros.

Hungary was that but even smaller. Also more limited by the WW1 end treaty than Germany. We fought on the Eastern front. With varying success. The soviets outgunned and outnumbered us. The Royal Hungarian army lost around 200k people when the Russians got trough at their positions in Stalingrad. Beside that we had a bloody defensive war and a few SS divisions.

Wars are decided by economic output. So we weren't significant.

In the Axis only Germany and Japan were fully industrialized countries.

>>39803776
#jellymad 3rd worlder detected

>>39803777
you never posted any evidence involving statistics about gun deaths in America. you literally never have.

that was nonsense about gun laws in Europe. and you and i both know that.

once again, think before you speak

Fun fact:
Just like Equestria, Hungary was a kingdom without a king.

>>39803786
Awwww,
but you're still my friend.
If things go bad and you lost all your cash to having a tooth pulled, you're free to come live with me.

>>39803776
>>39803786
... is your friendship ending?

>>39803787
How did that happen?

>>39803786

First off i have in the past, not surprised that you've forgotten, but i have.
Wasn't very useful as in general screaming seems to be the dominant and most important factor in discussing american issues, so i just stopped bothering to supply links.

Second off here i'm not even referencing sources of my own but of a third party that was rather pro-gun to boot, not by any stretch unobjective on the matter but sooner colored in your favour than against your ideals.

Also i literally linked the article from a database containing the literal agreements and laws within europe, there's literally no authority above it that's publically linkable.

Once again i hope you'll consider starting to (try to) think.

Last edited at Tue, Apr 21st, 2015 13:08

>>39803790
i paid for that shit with my money, why would need your help?

you should focus on your own life. like for example figuring why your wife no longer wants anything to do with you, cuckboy :^)))

>>39803795
first off no you havent. stop trying to say bullshit about when i remember or dont remember.

you never proved shit.

just stop talking lmao

>>39803792
>>39803799
apparently so.

ah well

We can't have silly banter all the time.

Last edited at Tue, Apr 21st, 2015 13:10

>>39803794
Hungary was a dualist country with Austria until the end of World War 1. (had one king but two capitals: Budapest and Vienna)

After World War 1 Austrio-Hungaria was broken up by the Trianon treaty. In Hungary we had a revolution by the social democrats, that's how Hungary became a republic, then we had the communists (the allies of the social democrats) taking over. In reaction to the brutality of the commies we had a counter revolution where our ex admiral and future Regent Miklós Hortly kicked out the communists.

He blocked the return of the king (From the House of the Habsburg) but insisted on having a kingdom to differentiate from the bad memories of our republics.

Fun fact after 1948 the social democrats got the same shit from the commies but this time there was no cavarly.

>>39803803
Pinkie Pie is arguing with Pinkie Pie.
This ain't right.

>>39803777
I get you, Cracked isn't a reputable source. The thing is, they link to cited sources that are.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_federal_election,_March_1933
What's that? Wikipedia isn't a reputable source? See above.

You're probably right that the situation was more complicated than it seems in the article's summary, but the fact remains that Hitler was never voted into power
Ok that wiki link actually makes it look like he did win, I don't know. fuck it.
here's another source they cited:
http://www.lobelog.com/no-hitler-did-not-come-to-power-democratically/

>>39803781
check my wiki link, it shows all the parties

>>39803799

It's not exactly bullshit if there's two rather prominent examples that you fail/have failed to recollect right here, though i'm sure that given enough time we could locate more that you've forgotten.

And i did, just because you say i don't doesn't make it not so. :p

Might suit you better.

>>39803810

Hmm, good that i took it seriously then.
Still, holding the german history museum in berlin as a source above both cracked and the english wikipedia's sources, no offense.

Would suggest you visit the exhibition too, it's neat with details on most of the crap that was going on at the time.

Last edited at Tue, Apr 21st, 2015 13:14

>>39803811
sorry, I deleted and reposted because I may have been wrong about something. it gets confusing when you look into it.

I'll visit there if I am ever in Berlin.

Last edited at Tue, Apr 21st, 2015 13:14

>>39803813

No probs, edited the post to reference the right one.

They've a nice cafe too, would recommend the marzipan cake.

Also it should be noted that while there was indeed a lot of crap going on during the elections they were definitely representative to a pretty large degree, so while perhaps not democratically proper it's still enough to say that perhaps the germans weren't very... eh... passive bystanders in these horrors, which was what i was saying.

Last edited at Tue, Apr 21st, 2015 13:16

>>39803811
fine then. provide actual evidence to back-up your statement and then i will believe you. but sitting there saying you did something but never did it, wont cut it

feel free back up your statements.

go ahead. ill wait.

>>39803809
Don't let the whole funpost thing fool you.
She can be a real meanie.

>>39803815
this wiki link makes more sense
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_presidential_election,_1932

Hindenburg, who owed his election the support of the Social Democrats, took office with little enthusiasm. On May 29 he dismissed his intercessor Chancellor Brüning and appointed Franz von Papen, a declared anti-democrat, his successor. Although Hitler lost the presidential election of 1932, he achieved his goals, when he was appointed chancellor on 30 January 1933. On February 27, Hindenburg paved the way to dictatorship and war by issuing the Reichstag Fire Decree which nullified civil liberties. Hitler succeeded Hindenburg as head of state upon his death in 1934, whereafter he abolished the office entirely, and replaced it with the new position of Führer und Reichskanzler ("Leader and Reich Chancellor"), cementing his rule.


How does the above vary from the version told in the Berlin museum?

Not every one who fought for the Germans in that war were actually Nazis.

>>39803817

I would, but: >>39803777
Why'd i bother looking for things that weren't mine if you're just gonna deny its existence in a few weeks or so?

Besides it wasn't my source, for all i know he found it by searching it in serbian meaning that i'm unlikely to find it were i to search.

If you were somepony who conversed reasonably, who remembered what they did and who could remotely account for biasses then i might be arsed to do this for you, but as is i'd rather leave you unconvinced.

>>39803825

Sounds like Nazi talk to me. You a Nazi, son?

>>39803818
At least she isn't a blue meanie.

>>39803825

Not even every German soldier was probably a nazi. A decent chunk of them were probably just ordinary guys obeying their orders and doing their duty as soldiers.

>>39803834
(It's bait)

>>39803829
reaver logic:

<i once provided solid statistics proving that guns in america cause more deaths then in yamen
<mikie asks for proof
<lol i did but he doesnt remember, i bet i can win the argument like that. im so genius
<asks for proof
<you wont remember it anyway

yeah, im gonna go do something else.

>>39803837

Not a guarantee

>>39803824

Not too much, but with more details around the ongoing battles between nazis and communists there and their influence on Hindenberg and later Hitler aswell as on the contents of the decree, which is nuancelessly summarised here.

>>39803825
True. (My great-grandfather fought for the Germans and wasn't a Nazi.) But this guy actually helped run a concentration camp, even though he was just a bookkeeper.

>>39803839

Tsk, avoid using your mind more Mikie, at this rate ya might aswell have kept on drinking.

But it's probably for the best of us both if ya do that.

>>39803842
gotcha

>>39803840
It's really a broad statement that goes against the "hollywood nazi" stereotype people use.

If OP was saying all germans were nazis that would have been the "nazi" idea.

Basically it turned the expectation on it's head in a provocative manner.

>>39803847

Do keep this part in mind though: "so while perhaps not democratically proper it's still enough to say that perhaps the germans weren't very... eh... passive bystanders in these horrors, which was what i was saying." >>39803815

As i'm not sure if it qualifies as full blown democracy after the decree, but it was far from meaningless and influenceless.

>>39803850

I haven't even read OP, I just responded to that one post.

>>39803832
Nei - I mean, no!

>>39803834
Exactly.

>>39803845
And, if that was his job? In that military, going against orders would've gotten you shot and done nothing to stop anything; your best bet was to do orders.

>>39803853
That makes sense.

>>39803858

3rdstrike.mp3

>>39803846
Given the ease with which you can prove him wrong your refusal to do so is sort of proving him right.

This thread has really gotten derailed. We have a discussion about how Hitler came to power, various discussions about World War 2, and inexplicably a debate on gun control. lol

>>39803866
And Hitler wasn't brought up in the Gun control debate.

The internet evolves.

>>39803865

Without considering the past, yes, then it would seem like that.
But since my point revolves around not obliging his failure to do that i don't particularly care to convince him in this matter, as that's just a waste of time.

I've stated sufficiently why i will not after all.

Last edited at Tue, Apr 21st, 2015 13:36

>>39803857
I agree. I do have some sympathy for this guy. I'm just pointing out why he isn't exactly the typical wartime German (especially since the concentration camp he worked for was was Auschwitz).

It isn't my place to forgive him. Me and mine weren't in the camps and those who were fighting were doing the soldiering kinds of things that neither ask for an apology nor offer forgiveness.

>>39803866
So...
German superweapons next?
I really like the Landkreuzer P 1500 Monster.
42m long, 7m high and a widht of 18m.
The shell? 800mm.
The 7-tonne projectiles could be fired up to 37 km (the English Channel is 34 km at the smallest distance).

Last edited at Tue, Apr 21st, 2015 13:55

>>39803919
The shell.

>>39803919
>>39803922

Wasn't it meant to be train-track mounted?

>>39803924
Nope.
The original barrel comes from a trainmounted weapon.

>>39803936

Ah, that might be the reason i thought that then.

>Hey this 93 year old man used to be an accountant for the nazi's.
>OY VEY, REMEMBER THE 6 GORRILIAN.

This is a publicity stunt and nothing more.
Anypony who believes that this man is seriously accountable hue for anything that happened in the camps needs to get their head checked.

>>39803939
Beyond that, the whatchacallit - you can't legally charge him with something that happened that long ago, either.

>>39803919
Holy shit, look at that thing! The Nazis really were the empire from Star Wars.

>>39803940
statute of limitations?

Last edited at Tue, Apr 21st, 2015 14:08

>>39803939

The publicity likely is just a stunt yes, this should have happened in silence.

But just because he's old doesn't mean he's unaccountable, just because you killed somepony 70 years ago doesn't mean you shouldn't get punished today.

Though whether or not his actions had / could've had actual influence on the amount of lives taken is indeed debatable, he was just a cog after all.

Then again, remove a cog and weaken the machine... had there been enough uneasy at the prospect of being held accountable the machine might have operated more stundedly indeed, though this is in hindsight.

Personally i'd say though that doing this without direct, literal and constant threat of severe repercussion like death as he has makes it only worse though, it is avoidance of responsibility and accountability, childishness to the deadly extreme, a big part of what allows masses to be manipulated as mindless herds.

>>39803940

Warcrimes and horrors are excempt from that rule in most countries.

Last edited at Tue, Apr 21st, 2015 14:17

>>39803940
Yes you can. Those rules don't apply to war crimes. Just do a quick search and you'll see.

>>39803939
That guy is probably literally Hitler!

  >>39803919
Pssh, that was just an artillery piece on treads. THIS was an actual tank.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landkreuzer_P._1000_Ratte

>>39803940

"Crimes that are considered exceptionally heinous by society have no statute of limitations. As a rule, there is no statute of limitations for murder, especially capital or first-degree murder".

>>39803940
They actually made it easier to charge them a couple of years ago.
Before you had to prove that they actually killed people, now it is enough that they were a guard at the place.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/13/130507-nazi-war-criminal-holocaust-auschwitz-hans-lipschis-simon-wiesenthal-center-demjanjuk/

>>39803942
Yes.

>>39803945
>>39803946
>>39803949
>>39803950
Oh. Never mind.

>>39803945
This shouldnt have happened at all.
He was a fucking accountant.
He processed the belongings of prisoners and managed the camp's finances.
He had nothing to do with the prisoners beyond that, yet his mere presence at the camp is enough to make him complicit in genocide?

At the risk of being anti-semetic, this whole bullshit is just a way to jew money out of people too old to put up a fight.

>>39803961

So you say.

Supplying the goods or financing them helps make you accountable, generally speaking this may reflect poorly upon you if you're an accountant for a mass murderer.

It may be entirely stereotypical but what comes to mind is golden dentures and the like as they were generally picked pretty clean before landing there already, but aside from that generally treating in stolen goods acquired by mass murdering is frowned upon, basically the whole point is that he was involved with a party that comitted genocide.

No, but his employment and involvement does, besides all this is taken into account as at best he can get like 3 years of prison or something.

And i doubt that, personally i think it's more likely to be a sorta politically motivated move in response to pegida and the like.
...Thinking a few old individuals would bother with so little to gain from this is a pretty poor application of such stereotypes too.

Last edited at Tue, Apr 21st, 2015 14:33

>>39803961
If you ask me, it might as well be what happens when Hitler betrays a corporation like Disney.

Also...by this logic, Walt Disney himself would've been tried for war crimes just because he was in a picture with Adolf Hitler before WW2. I'm not joking about the picture by the way.

>>39803967
Charles Lindbergh supported the Nazis a couple of years.

>>39803971

So did Sven Hedin

>>39803971
>>39803972
>>39803967

I seem to recall Hitler being Time's man of the year during some edition too.

Thing is that this stuff isn't about just nazism or antisemitism, it's about his involvement in a concentration camp which helped destroy a pretty large amount of people.

>>39803967
>>39803971
>>39803972
inb4 massive trials to rectify these wrongs.

>>39803974
Except he had no involvement in any of the shit that was going on. He was a bean counter

>>39803984

See my response to Fen for that: >>39803962

All the same he'll get his dues, be they good or bad.

>>39803985
By that standard any citizen could be held accountable for the actions of their state.

>He'll get his dues, be they good or bad.
Nah, he won't. He'll be made an example of and all the hypocrites will call it justice.

>>39803962
>at best he can get like 3 years of prison or something.

>3 years of prison.

>For book-keeping.

I dont really see how you can just sit there and think it's alright to put a 93 year old man on trail for something that happened seventy years ago when he had no direct part in any death that took place at the camp.

If this guy is on trial simply by association, then the pilots and gunners of the allied planes that bombed the German supply routes and caused mass starvation and disease across the entire country should also be put on trial.

But they wont, because that doesn't fit the narrative of "Every nazi was evil and everypony from the west was a saint"

>>39803987

If said standard citizen works in the destruction facility where countless are processed, then yes.

And so you say, it can be just as easily turned around by saying something along the lines of "You only claim it's not justice because it goes against your personal beliefs.".
Not a very useful thing to say.

>>39803988

By considering that generally horrors aren't forgiven with time and considering the still living people that he helped suffer.

And that's true, but that's where wartime-justice differs from peacetime-justice, the winners go free.
That's the point of war as an ultimate test of mettle, regardless of what people want it to be, deciding who makes the rules.

All the same there are relatively objective standards by which they (and by extension he) also fail, such as rather than destroying their enemies they destroyed what could have been useful to them and what was dependant on them.
If allied planes had bombed their own supply lines intentionally and caused starvation of a comparable scale that would have been a remotely comparable crime.

Last edited at Tue, Apr 21st, 2015 15:14

>>39803996
Though you could make this kind of argument to say that the people who took part in the interment of Japanese-Americans should be charged with false-imprisonment. If the Japanese had somehow conquered the US, there's a reasonable chance that would have happened. It's not like he was an accountant for the mob or something. I just think people should be given the benefit of the doubt when they act in accordance with the laws of their country and don't actually hurt anybody.

>>39804009

Might very well be, all the same:

>And that's true, but that's where wartime-justice differs from peacetime-justice, the winners go free.
>That's the point of war as an ultimate test of mettle, regardless of what people want it to be, deciding who makes the rules.

What you say is indeed injustice, but not injustice likely to be righted either.
But failing to take down the devil doesn't mean you have to tolerate demons.

If he was accountant for the mob it would've been more easily forgiven, the mob hasn't destroyed that many people.
Also it should be noted that the laws of a country that ceases to exist cease to have value thereafter, as they derive their value from the existence of an authority capable of enforcing it.

Last edited at Tue, Apr 21st, 2015 15:22

All this shows is that the Zionists will do anything in their power to demonize those not in line and to reinforce their version of history.

Funny thing is, it's actually illegal to disagree with the holocaust narrative in a lot of countries. I thought truth didn't fear investigation?

>>39803996
>By considering that generally horrors aren't forgiven with time and considering the still living people that he helped suffer.
Read what i said again,
>he had no direct part in any death that took place at the camp.
Zero.
His job was to catalogue their belongings as they came in, which were probably dropped off by another guard that had previously acquired them from the prisoner in standard prison procedure.

>Making a distinction between wartime-justice and peacetime-justice.
You dont actually care about justice then, only following the orders and opinion of the guy with the biggest stick.

>Everything else.

The allies bombed the supply lines which they knew were supplying the camps with food, medicine, clothing and such.
There are not if's and's or but's about it, they destroyed those lines, they directly contributed to the starvation and death of an uncountable number of prisoners and should therefore be put on trial like this former accountant.
Hell, those guys contributed far more than this one man did towards the death of people inside the camps.

He was a nazi, that is the only reason he is being put on trial.

>>39804012
Quiet goyim, now help your greatest ally kill all the Palestinians.

>>39804012

I don't think it's disallowed anywhere to speak against it if you've proof that stands rigid evaluation of either a legal or scientific kind.

Thing is that's where most fail, through conspiracy or not.

Just meaning to say that the investigation isn't stifled by not being allowed to speak about it.

>>39804015
It lands you several years in prison in most European countries, and its a social pariah in most of the rest of the world. I think its safe to say that anypony who challenges Holocaust orthodoxy gets very heavily persecuted.

>>39804014

I know what ya said, i responded to that too in an earlier post too.
( >>39803962 "Supplying the goods or financing them helps make you accountable, generally speaking this may reflect poorly upon you if you're an accountant for a mass murderer.")

>

There's no other justice, what we call justice is not something objective but rather something human.
Even commonly agreed upon "justice" is just justice enforced by most sticks. :p

>

Ya fail to account for the point that they were enemies of theirs, whereas the germans slew their own.

>He was a nazi, that is the only reason he is being put on trial.

Believe what ya will, Fen, belief doesn't make truth.

>>39804016

Can't say i've ever bothered to speak about the holocaust's occurence, but i see plenty here who deny it even without proof yet live freely while even that is supposedly illegal.

Basically it's just a means to shut up those who incessantly claim things of consequence without sufficient proof of just about any kind, not a means to prevent investigation.

Last edited at Tue, Apr 21st, 2015 15:31

>>39804011
My point by it being legal was that he wasn't knowingly doing anything wrong. If you break the law, then you can say, "they knew the risks," but he had no way of knowing the Nazi's wouldn't stay in power forever. Convicting him of something that was legal under German law at the time seems to me like if the US government or something made a law, and then imprisoned everybody who broke the law before it existed. It's one thing if he was literally killing people, but it seems like if you can imprison him for helping a bad thing happen in an incredibly indirect way, you might as well throw all of Germany in prison because they all aided in making the holocaust happen in one way or another.

(Also, sorry if it seems like we're all ganging up on you.)

Last edited at Tue, Apr 21st, 2015 15:33

>>39804018
Why the immediate backlash? I haven't even said anything other than that Zionists look for every excuse to go after supposed Nazis. It's a proven fact. I think the fact that you have such a kneejerk reaction to my point of view proves that there is a degree of social programming.

Remember Wernher Von Braun?
He was a major in SS that developed the V2 rocket.
Eyewitnesses said that he personally handpicked people from concentration camps that worked to death building V2 rockets, more died by building them than being killed by them.
What did USA do when they found him?
They forged false identification papers and took him to USA where they made him the Chief Architect for the Saturn V rocket, which sent a man to the moon.
There is a difference between humans and humans.

>>39804019
There is a huge amount of evidence to show that the current narrative for the holocaust is false. The "6 million dead" has little basis in what has actually been discovered and is only used as a means of demonizing the Germans.

http://www.resist.com/Articles/literature/66holocaust.htm

Here are a few refutations of frequent Holocaust claims

>>39804020

True, but irrelevant as nazi germany ceased to exist.
Point of warfare is to enforce rules upon others, so naturally they're judged by our rules and not theirs. :p

I mean i see your point, but by your logic any torturer under a dictatorship that abides by a law could be justified just by jutting down the rule.

>>39804022

A questionable move, but not unique amongst America's victor's justice, though supposedly he served purpose as a tool rather than receiving random forgiveness.
You could destroy every gun that shoots at you, or you could seize it and shoot at those who still shoot at you.

>>39804026

Look mate, i've read enough of these sort of things in the past yet every claim of proof so far that i've bothered to sort out turned out to be loose sand at best.

Conspiracy crap and the like is fine and all but don't expect me to have patience for the patterns you see and the things you see as sufficient proof.

...Also there's literally not even a source, just random statements that somepony barely literate could make.
By this standard i could claim the moon wasn't real and have somepony else refer to that and stand as strongly as you do.

Last edited at Tue, Apr 21st, 2015 15:39

>>39804022
Yep. Him and many others as part of Operation Paperclip. The difference is, he was useful against the Soviets. Although, I don't really blame him that much either. Picking slaves to build his rocket wasn't his idea, and people who were there said that if had refused, the officers would have shot him. Also, apparently to get anything major done in Nazi-Germany, you had to join the SS for the politics. Maybe I'm just biased though because I'm a huge fan of his work

>>39804028
So you refuse to question your thin worldview at all and are content to believing whatever the mainstream media tells you? Okay, have fun with believing in dogma I suppose. It's a shame that you're not brave enough to try to find the truth.

http://www.holohoax101.org/

Here's something with additional sources, but I bet you wont read this either

Last edited at Tue, Apr 21st, 2015 15:42

>>39804030

I question it daily but tend to not do so on the basis of an unbased claim of a random person on the internet, no.

The truth has a tendency to show itself eventually anyway, in the unlikely event that there's a grain of truth in what you say i'll get to it eventually.

But for the moment what you say just seems like the somanieth pattern-recognition malfunction as is so common amongst conspiracy theorists.

And if i wanted to believe something just because somepony said so i'd join a church, at least that could have some benefits by the grace of being a social construct.

Last edited at Tue, Apr 21st, 2015 15:43

>>39804027
Fair enough, but I think the crucial difference is that he wasn't a torturer - he was an accountant. If he were a torturer, I would agree with you. It's the combination of legality and mildness of his actual actions that make me want to let him go.

>>39804026
Oh god, here we go.

Last edited at Tue, Apr 21st, 2015 15:45

>>39804033

Fair enough, as stated i don't find it a particularly strong case either and not something deserving of such publicity, but since they bothered to ask the question i've found that an honest answer of mine would say that he's guilty by proxy.
Helping such things being made possible is something i'd say is punishable.

Last edited at Tue, Apr 21st, 2015 15:45

>>39804031
But yet you're perfectly willing to believe the unsourced statements of Zionist controlled media? That's a case of doublethink if I ever saw it. Mixed up with meaningless psychobabble, and you seem like a typical liberal hipster.

Oh, and dont worry, you're already part of a church. An extremely militant, dogmatic one that believes in eliminating all dissent.

>>39804015
>Just meaning to say that the investigation isn't stifled by not being allowed to speak about it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_against_Holocaust_denial#By_country

A common theme is this sentence fragment

"who publicly denies, puts in doubt, approves or tries to justify"

With that single fragment, you simply cant have a public investigation without the threat of being labelled a criminal and nazi sympathiser.

Even questioning the numbers of people killed can get you landed in prison.

>>39804017
>i responded to that too in an earlier post too.
No you didnt.
He didnt supply or finance them, he balanced their books.
When you do your taxes, that is essentially what this guy was doing for the whole camp.

>justice is subjective :^)
Except no it fucking isnt.
Justice is fairness.
Justice is impartial.

Justice would be the actual wrong doers of the time being put on trial but instead we have this mockery of justice wherein an extremely old man is being forced to take responsibility for the entire fucking holocaust when all he did was make sure the camp didn't run out of money.

>Ya fail to account for the point that they were enemies of theirs, whereas the germans slew their own.

>The people in the camps were enemies of the allies.
Run that one by me again champ.

>Believe what ya will, Fen, belief doesn't make truth.
And truth does not fear investigation, yet i could be arrested for saying all this shit in a public setting.

>>39804036
a-actually justice -is- subjective, because people will not agree on what is fair...

>>39804035
>and you seem like a typical liberal hipster.
i coulda told you that

>>39804040
>m-muh moral relativism!

Please tell me you're joking. You probably aren't, but I hope you are.

>>39804029
I am personally happy for the technological advancements that the war caused, even if I think that the war was wrong.

>>39804035

So many claims in one sentence i can't even begin to start.

>But yet you're perfectly willing to believe

No, i'm not, i've taken a look at various places myself and have spoken to quite a large amount of people in charge for exactly such a purpose as discerning what truly happened.

>the unsourced statements

They provide sources, occasionally correct ones, that's quite a lot more than you or anypony like you that i've met so far has managed.

>of Zionist controlled media?

Personally i find the belief that zionists can control anything is laughable, but beyond that i'll refer to my own investigations of such things again.
There's no control mechanism, nothing directly discernible in human or machine at least.

And that's a nice claim you've got there, now if only you could show it to be the truth to even a remotely reasonable mind.

>>39804043
Uh, if there is an absolute set of morals that all entities should agree to, who decides it? What is its source?

>>39803961
>At the risk of being anti-semetic, this whole bullshit is just a way to jew money out of people too old to put up a fight.

*ba-dum tish*

>>39804040
>>39804043

Justice is shiiiiiiiiiit. And this is the perfect example of why. No one gains anything by throwing this geezer in prison. If anything, society as a whole is made worse by losing somepony who's been productive for the last 70 years in nothing but a helpful capacity. Imprisoning the guy out of such an old grudge is preposterous. Let him live out the meager remains of his life in peace.

>>39804047

God, obviously.

all in all i agree with this

leave the old guy alone. FFS, it seems he hasnt done anything wrong besides write checks or whatever

fen atleast PROVED that

>>39804049
That wasn't why I entered the thread... but I agree. Even assuming he had a behavior to be corrected, it's too late to be relevant and he's too old to gain anything out of imprisonment of any kind.

>>39804053
pls

>>39804047
Simple, that which advances humanity is what is good. That which sets us on the path of degeneracy is bad. With this, even a child can determine morals. All the psychobabble about moral relativism is just more Cultural Marxist bullcrap that means nothing other than to cast doubt into actual morals.

>>39804040
>>39804047
Ya, pretty much this. Since no two people agree on what is just, how could you determine what justice is? Even if there were an objective morality, how would we even be able to figure out what it is if people can't agree on it?

>>39804057
Hitler would argue killing the jews advances humanity.

>>39804057
That is avoiding the question. Who decides these absolute morals?
You're saying these morals advance humanity to good and avoid degeneracy. How can you know which path is advancement for sure? Who are you to decide an act is classified as degeneracy?
Children only combine instincts with what they are told by parents and society as they grow up. They are not born with an inherent knowledge of universal morals.

>>39804060
Considering what happens when you put Jews in direct control (Russia, China, Cambodia, ect), I think I'd be inclined to agree. If that's at all what Hitler wanted, which he didn't.

Last edited at Tue, Apr 21st, 2015 15:59

Oh geez, I took the bait. Sorry guys.

>>39804036

Only the trying to put in doubt one can irrevocably be used to prevent investigation, and that one's limited to just the Czech republic.

>>39804036

>

Doing services for which you're being paid is already a monetary transaction and the service a good.

>

Your justice is theoretical, a nice thing to strive for but ever nonexistent in the real world.

Justice is putting an old accomplice of murderers behind bars even if just for the sake of consequence; equal treatment in the eyes of the law.

And fine, they weren't enemies but rather at least not their own citizens.
Though arguably in a war the citizenry is a valid target too if they happen to be near a target or supplying a target, but that's just personal opinion.

>And truth does not fear investigation, yet i could be arrested for saying all this shit in a public setting.

Given proper sources and the like to back you up there's rarely a need for worry, but given the populistic nature of what it seeks to crush it's sensible to not have too much patience for unbased claims.

Basically if ya don't spew too much bullshit around there's nothing to worry about, heck i've said worse than you in public yet i sit here.

Just because ya feel justified about something doesn't mean you are, likewise just because ya feel something's injustice doesn't mean it is.

Last edited at Tue, Apr 21st, 2015 16:01

>>39804040
Treating people equally without favoritism or discrimination.

If a punishment is decided for a crime by whatever legal system is in place, that punishment must be given if the person is proven to have committed the crime.

>But he didnt know!
Ignorance of the law is no excuse in this day and age, although a case could have been made in older times where information was not so readily available or easily spread.

>But he had to do it because he's poor / hungry / sick.
Irrelevant. They weighed their situation versus the risks of committing the crime and chose to commit it.

>It was an accident!
In which case it is a different crime with a lesser punishment, but it needs to be proven to be accidental.

>>39804047
The golden rule.
“Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.”
It's present in all cultures throughout history and seems to be the basis for civilisation itself, given how far back it seems to date.

>>39804049
>Justice is shiiiiiiiiiit. And this is the perfect example of why.
It's a perfect example of somebody making a mockery of justice.

>>39804064
It's too late m8, off to the giftshop with you.

>>39804061
It's as simple as looking to nature and what allows humans to grow and prosper. Let me give you some examples.

Nationalism and pride in ones origins is morally good, because it allows the continued growth of culture and lessens depression and suicide rates, since it gives people something to believe in. Friendship is bad because it produces no children, is harmful to the animal, and is generally promoted by Zionists. I can give more if you like.

>>39804026
>8. How did German concentration camps differ from American "relocation" camps in which Japanese-Americans were interned during WWII?
>The only significant difference was that the Germans interned persons on the basis of being real or suspected security threats to the German war effort, whereas the Roosevelt administration interned persons on the basis of race alone.

Such threats as jews, handicapped people, homosexuals, romani, and people with differing political opinions? How could you possibly claim that people like the ones in this picture ever posed a legitimate security threat to germany?

>>39804070
...My Little Pony is created by the Zionists to prevent us from breeding?

>>39804067
People won't even agree on what kind of a judgment "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" should bring. Just because two people follow that same motto doesn't mean they will decide justice demands the same thing in the same case, even when they are treating people equally.

>>39804070
Your view point is so focused on putting humans as the only important thing in existence and that there is only one way to try and do the right that you gotta be joking.

>>39804071
Perhaps you missed the part where the world Jewish council literally declared war on Germany following Hitler's victory. Given that the world Jewish Council was backed entirely by Jews and zionists, it was only reasonable to keep Jews in internment camps until aggression had subsided. They actually treated them a lot better than other prisoners.

As for the others, disabled people don't produce anything productive to society, so by default they drain resources. They didn't kill them though, their conditions were pretty fair. As for Communists and Homos, they were actively trying to overthrow the government, so it was only natural that they be imprisoned. Try again.

>>39804070
>>39804078

...I would object, but your words are an excellent way to convince people that the likelihood that the things you protest against are actually true is a lot higher than that of what you claim.

Last edited at Tue, Apr 21st, 2015 16:09

>>39804078
...homosexuals tried to overthrow governments in the 30s-40s?

>>39804078
top kek

>>39804078
w-what?

ahahahhahahahahaha!!!!

wesley is that you?

>>39804080
>>39804081
>>39804083
It's true though. Just look at any actual documents during the time period. Even allied reports agreed that the camps were perfectly alright.

>>39804070
^nature
Hey! I'm the only social darwinist around these parts!
A population of two exceeds the carrying capacity of this board. This calls for a Malthusian showdown!

Besides, progress isn't a natural concept. And that's awfully anthropocentric for any ability to claim a basis in nature.

>>39804078
>As for Communists and Homos, they were actively trying to overthrow the government, so it was only natural that they be imprisoned. Try again.
Interesting. Would you mind elaborating?

oy vey...

>>39804064
Yep, me too.

>>39804080
I would love to see what would've happened if the homosexuals successfully overthrew the German government. I imagine Führer Brüno and his fashion police would beat people with their fabulous batons.

>>39804086
Stop dodging my question, I demand proof that homosexuals tried to overthrow governments in the 30s-40s.

>>39804084

That was his name, you're right. :o

>>39804080
>>39804081
>>39804083
Not sure about the homosexuals bit, but the Jewish people literally did declare war on germany.
It was an economic war though, in that they boycotted everything german.
This backfired hard though as that led hiter to do the whole reichmark(?) thing and make germany one of the most productive countries during a time period where everypony else that fought in WW1 were in a depression.

>>39804098
>boycott german goods in response to the government being against your people
>boycotts should be met with internment, imprisonment and having your businesses seized
I mean. I get the logic of "They boycott us so we should imprison them" but it seems just a tad excessive.

Last edited at Tue, Apr 21st, 2015 16:22

>>39804098
well that much i believe

>>39804098

Arguably using the bones of the jewish trading and production empires aswell as their "acquired" funds, rights and ideas were effective moreso than a few jews not buying german stuff.

Heck there's still cases resurfacing of german names being put on jewish work, even their famous volkswagen wouldn't have been weren't it for some of their more industrious jews.

>>39804098
It's hardly surprising that the jews chose to boycott german goods. Not doing business with people who literally hate you is perfectly reasonable and does not deserve to be met with lynching, confiscation of your property, or imprisonment.

Nope. He had a choice to do it and he chose to stay.

>>39804100
>>39804115
>The government was against your people
You guy's ever stop to think about why that is?

>>39804121

...Populistic jealousy is the most common answer, aswell as disdain for migrants such as associated with earlier done Russian actions, plus there was a need for a scapegoat what with their backstab-myth in mind.

Vienna had millions of jews mostly because of the russians, being reduced to poverty meant that a lot had to resort to less than honorable means to get by too.

Also due to said poverty and russian ties quite a lot were socialistic/communistic, which was what was fought about a lot too at the time.

There were many reasons, none of them justify genocide or even just such blind indiscriminate hatred for a race.

Last edited at Tue, Apr 21st, 2015 16:36

>>39804121
A bunch of rich jews in banking, arts, and industry are in charge of a finance system which is fucking the country over? Some kind of elders of zion with a leaked protocol? Lower class orthodox jews being poor and living in their hyper insular getthos posing an existential threat to german culture?

That's irrelevant. I wonder why a boycott should be met with property seizures and imprisonment if simple jew hate isn't a motivation here.
Though switching to the riechstag did involve the seizure of mass amounts of capital in the form of debt cancellation. the german economy wasn't yet long term viable when the war started since public funds were being supported by property seizure rather than regular income.

Last edited at Tue, Apr 21st, 2015 16:37

>>39804121
They got blamed for the leftist uprisings that were very multiethnic?

You see right wing rags that hated hitler being the only ones that support the "jews caused it" nonsense.

Last edited at Tue, Apr 21st, 2015 16:37

>>39804098
>Jewish people literally did declare war on germany.
No they didn't the socialists did first.

The nazis boycotted jews first then the jews did back.

The jews did their boycott in late 1933 in response to germany's boycott in early 1933

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_boycott_of_Jewish_businesses

To put this Jewish Council boycotted Germany nonsense out to pasture

Last edited at Tue, Apr 21st, 2015 16:46

<tfw this german solider circled looks alot like my great grandfather
<tfw i have a very strong german heritage

...oh god what if im related to a nazi?

oops wrong pic

>>39804136

I'm related to nazis aswell, who cares about that?

Also to jews by the way and plenty of antisemitic people, but my general response is not to care and just show them my best side.

>>39804121
I don't need to. Hitler makes it quite clear in Mein Kampf.

>Due to his own original special nature, the Jew cannot possess a religious institution, if for no other reason because he lacks idealism in any form, and hence belief in a hereafter is absolutely foreign to him.
And a religion in the Aryan sense cannot be imagined which lacks the conviction of survival after death in some form.
Indeed, the Talmud is not a book to prepare a man for the hereafter, but only for a practical and profitable life in this world.

>The best characterization is provided by the product of this religious education, the Jew himself. His life is only of this world, and his spirit is inwardly as alien to true Christianity as his nature two thousand years previous was to the great founder of the new doctrine.

>Of course, the latter made no secret of his attitude toward the Jewish people, and when necessary he even took the whip to drive from the temple of the Lord this adversary of all humanity, who then as always saw in religion nothing but an instrument for his business existence. In return, Christ was nailed to the cross, while our present-day party Christians debase themselves to begging for Jewish votes at elections and later try to arrange political swindles with atheistic Jewish parties-- and this against their own nation.

>The black-haired Jewish youth lies in wait for hours on end, satanically glaring at and spying on the unsuspicious girl whom he plans to seduce, adulterating her blood and removing her from the bosom of her own people. The Jew uses every possible means to undermine the racial foundations of a subjugated people.

>...the personification of the devil as the symbol of all evil assumes the living shape of the Jew.

>And so he [the Jew] advances on his fatal road until another force comes forth to oppose him, and in a mighty struggle hurls the heaven-stormer back to Lucifer. Germany is today the next great war aim of Bolshevism. It requires all the force of a young missionary idea to raise our people up again, to free them from the snares of this international serpent...

>Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: 'by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.'

>>39804140
jews dont bother me

they're just kinda there

whatever i guess

Actually, hmm, I misremembered.

sorry the jews did boycott first in response to hitler winning.

But that didn't cause the hatred of jews and was a response to hitler winning after running on an anti-jew platform.

Boycotts are nothing to kill and asset-seize for either way.

Last edited at Tue, Apr 21st, 2015 16:48

>>39804136
I got a lot of german blood from my dads side. Both grandparents were from german neighborhoods in the northeast, that sorta thing. Found out my direct ancestor from the early 1800's was a jew who was adopted into a german catholic family. The story is that there was a woman who was a servant for a jewish family and adopted the baby after anti-jewish riots destroyed the area.

So good thing my family gtfo of germany in 1906.

>>39804124
>>39804126
>>39804128
While those are decent answers, they're mostly incorrect.

The jewish people were blamed for the treaty of Versailles.

The ones who seemed to benefit the most from this treaty?
Jewish.
The people who instigated strikes in key military industry, which was reportedly the main reason that the germans lost the battle in the west?
Jewish.
The people that strictly opposed german nationalism?
Jewish.

Once is coincidence, twice is chance, three times and your wallets missing.

I'm not saying that i believe all that, i'm just saying that to the germans back then, it became increasingly apparant that jewish people had fucked over their country.
Which in turn led to huge anti-semitism feelings across the country, which itself led to a jewish boycott like >>39804135 >>39804134 mentions, followed by the nazi boycott that anon mentioned.

>>39804142
The anti-semitic feelings predated hitler's political career and the nazi party.

>>39804147
No you're right, the boycott on all things nazi was because germans had already started boycotting all things jewish.

>>39804145

To me some do, especially the loudly religious ones.

Then again amongst jews it's become the most exploited trope to have a jew caricaturise jews, so i seem justified. x)

>>39804155

As said, scapegoat.

And just a few idiots writing their things about how jews caused this and that is poor basis for proper conclusion about who benefitted most, proper proof for it would've been many of the administrative records jews kept of their business but which were conveniently destroyed as they de-jewed history.

Also it should be noted that there were plenty of fascist jews and even nazi jews, that's where zionism comes from after all.


But enfin, stereotypes gonna stereotyp and if this is your quirk then i'll just have to accept that.

Last edited at Tue, Apr 21st, 2015 16:55

>>39804155
My god fen. I think you may be right on this one. The jews really were the instigators in all of this.

I think it's funny that if any other user would have been saying this shit they would be flamed hard

>>39804155
It wasn't nazi though.

It was just a bunch of "you're not allowed here" and "we don't want you" that predated nazis.

I thought the nazis initially boycotted jews but they hadn't yet they just said they were going to.

>>39804155
I still find fault in this.

>treaty of Versailles
The jews were only a small part of leftist revolutionary groups showing up in germany that lessened support. They were losing anyway regardless and would have had a worse treaty if they didn't back out then. The commies were coming in from russia in full force by that point.

>who benefited most
The Allies? it wasn't the jews who did it.
>Who instigated strikes
Leftist groups who had some jews.
>Strictly opposed german nationalism
Lots of people in germany as the war wasn't heavily supported IIRC.

Yeah, it became apparent to people who want to find an easy target, but that doesn't mean those people should be defended.

>>39804167

Some people have accepted quirks, that's the perk of using names.

>>39804171
Not all folks with accepted quirks have power over the people who must accept those quirks though.

>>39804171
>this guy's quirk is being a nazi sympathizer, oh how cute!
>also he's the owner of the site
and yet nobody is not ok with this

>>39804175
I find it pretty fitting to be honest. There is the old straw about ponychan having nazi mods after all.

>>39804175
>tfw raven isn't the admin

>>39804175

Plenty have noted it, but what're ya gonna do?
Most of the time he's harmless and pretty reasonable, and he doesn't blatantly abuse his power too obviously.

This bit from the NY Times article sums up the absurdity of bringing charges like this 70 years later:

Mr. Gröning’s case not only revives searing questions about individual guilt for Nazi crimes but also highlights the decades of legal inaction over Auschwitz, where an estimated 1.1 million people were killed. About 6,500 members of the SS worked at the camp; only 49 have been convicted of war crimes.

The fact of the matter is that they ran out of actual Nazi War Criminals decades ago. Now all today's aspiring Witch Hunter General has to hang their hat on is the nearly-dead desk clerk who has had to live the last 3/4 of a Century with the memory of watching babies being beaten to death and families being gassed in their own homes.

They didn't give two shits about him until now. He didn't try to hide. He didn't flee to South America. This is all about the lead prosecutor being out to make his mark on the world at the expense of others.

Gee, sounds familiar.

>>39804179
>but what're ya gonna do?
idunno, be anything other than ok with it?

>>39804175
I sure as hell am not okay with it. People who sympathize with deranged dictators should probably not even be on Ponychan, let alone be a fucking admin.

>>39804190
like stalin lmao

>>39804182

But that costs effort. x)
And also it's as useless as being ok with it, opinions and words don't do shit without enforcing capacities.

Heck even those who keep finding offense with it tire of responding.

Personally i just use this site to have my ideas tested a bit, find possible friends/buddies for gaming or just to distract me from my unending headaches, though i'll admit that feeding back into the site what i test and what the results are is pretty lacking.
All the same it's not something hampered by his antics.

Last edited at Tue, Apr 21st, 2015 17:06

>>39804195
idunno, I'm sure in some way you could boycott ponychan or something, or force fen out as admin in some way. The only reason I haven't been doing more is because I'm the only one who wants to do something about this.
>>39804190
this nigga gets it tho

>>39804155
Of course they did. How does that excuse Hitler's blatant anti-semitism? Those paragraphs up there were written by him. Those beliefs were his and he acted on them by systematically stripping the jews of their rights and putting them in camps.

>The ones who seemed to benefit the most from this treaty?
The Allies

>The people who instigated strikes in key military industry, which was reportedly the main reason that the germans lost the battle in the west?
Germans. The war wasn't very popular towards the end. Massive shortages of essential goods played a large role in that. Germany was out of resources. The war couldn't have lasted much longer even if they wanted it to.

>>39804190
>People who sympathize with deranged dictators should probably not even be on Ponychan
;______________;
y u hurt my feeling mew mew?

>>39804192
Right, because Stalin totes exiled 100 million gorillion to death camps, ruined his country with collectivization while persecuting those innocent Kulaks, and wanted world domination. Must be why the USSR had such a high birthrate, multiethnic unity, sky high growth of GDP, and why the famines actually stopped once collectivization was enforced.

Stalin may be an autocratic bastard, but he at least did some things right.

>>39804199

Well to me it's less important to make a point out of this than it is to keep the site sorta whole-together-ish, i mean mlpchan and likewise experiments weren't exactly positive contributions for as far as i'm concerned, though mlpchan did improve the infrastructure.

Besides he's harmless for as far as i can see, sure there's some movements that might agree with him or viceversa but they were spotted before he thought the things he thinks and develop independantly of him.
If i want to make a difference i'd focus on where it'd actually count.

Also it's not like he doesn't get enough counterpoints, he might ignore them or trivialise them but it's not like he's dictating succesfully here. :p

Last edited at Tue, Apr 21st, 2015 17:12

Reminder that #MANLEYDIDNOTHINGWRONG

>>39804204

He had oil for one.

Though i'll give ya that i do find him to be better than Hitler, at least he gave the people a chance in that he didn't murder them just for being what they were.

>>39804166
You should know by now that i am always right.

Now go my child, seize your destiny and invade poland.

>>39804167
>>39804171
>>39804174
>>39804175
God fucking damn it you bastards better not restraining yourselves from calling me a pony just because i'm an admin.
How many times do i have to say it, i will never ever ban anybody for disagreeing with me or having an opinion i dont like.
Onto the actual conflict:
Christ, it's not like i'm saying "Lets go rape some babies and burn the parents." or some shit.
If questioning the mainstream story means i'm a nazi sympathiser then sign me up for the SS already.

>>39804168
Oh there's definitely fault in that line of thinking, i'm just saying that to the german people at the time, it looked like a hell of a lot of jewish people benefited from or caused the treaty to happen.

>>39804200
It doesnt, i'm just saying that his views weren't isolated.

See above, i'm talking about how germans felt at the time.

>>39804206
Okay that i can be called hitler over, no argument here.

>>39804209

That's what i said, the quirk i referred to is believing the things you believe.
I don't mind talking about it but i don't give a shit about what ya believe and believe to be true, but i find that ya don't abuse your stuff, hence no negative response/action/etc..

>>39804209
>g-guys I'm just asking questions! Stop hurting muh feelins ;-;

Always the classic classcuck defense.

Funny, the fact that I get so much flak for being a Commie is starting to make a lot more sense, considering that there's a literal Nazi in charge of Ponychan. Interesting how that all works.

>>39804209
>If questioning the mainstream story
sure question the mainstream story, but you've given no evidence that it was wrong. Show me some.

All you said were things that pretty obviously weren't true (but many believed it at the time) or half-truths that you've acknowledged.

All I've seen in this thread was stuff about feelings and you admitting that the nazis/germans did things first but there were more feelings

Last edited at Tue, Apr 21st, 2015 17:15

>>39804155
>The ones who seemed to benefit the most from this treaty?
The people who dominated the whole thing, the French and British. Italy got screwed, but was just as bloodthirsty and the Americans got shut out by the other three. "The Jews" weren't particularly involved. The biggest advocate for the Jews back in those days was Imperial Russia, and they'd just fallen apart, surrendered, had a revolution and were generally not able to participate in the treaty.

>The people who instigated strikes in key military industry
Socialists

>The people that strictly opposed German nationalism?
The old Imperial folks, for the most part. The Jews got involved after "German nationalism" became synonymous with antisemitism. It's a bit silly to say that German nationalism became antisemitic because the Jews were opposed to their antisemitic platform.