>>39806875
Another day, another heated topic.
Proceed .

I think the way I feel about this should be obvious, so I'll spare the text wall.

I think it's a consideration, but from what I hear there's this huge media storm about how dumb people doing dumb things and getting themselves killed is somehow ALL OF EUROPE'S FAULT, PERSONALLY and that EVERYPONY SHOULD FEEL AWFUL

>>39806875
No thanks, England has enough foreigners as it is , torpedo the lot

>>39806887
It's a humanitarian question.

People live in places where death comes around them and like rats fleeing the fire, they do stupid stuff to try and escape.
And we as europeans question ourselves "If they go so far to risk their lives to live here, are we right to refuse them? And seeing how we may have the means of helping them, isn't it our jobs to prevent this from happening?"

Last edited at Thu, Apr 23rd, 2015 10:24

>>39806896
No, we cant even sort our own problems out

bump

perhaps you can set up an Ellis Island sort of system? And process everypony offshore, before allowing them to set foot on Mainland Europe? And if they do set foot on Mainland Europe, you can send them to one of the offshore immigration centers for proper processing?

If ya don't want WWII esque sentiments to develop don't take on more immigrants, so i'm rather pleased they've announced a focus on preventive measures.

On top of that there's the limited resources and threat of further infiltration.

If anything we should perhaps give them the possibility to show their worth outside of Europe with something to test their worth to us so that at least those who won't be a burden get a chance.

Doesn't alleviate the threat of terrorism but might help mitigate the negative opinion and resource issue.

>>39807360
There are thoughts and cries about doing this. Set up offices along the chore of the Mediterranean Sea to accept and process fugitives for a life in the EU.

But as was pointed out, we'd still have many people leaving all their stuff behind and travelling a long distance to live in Europe and whether we deny them in Africa or in Europe, they won't just be turning back.

Europe is currently stuck on either providing more legal means to send fugitives through to Europe or better ways to intercept them and send them back.

>>39807360

"Allowing"?
Moony there's using the boat equivalent of floating ruins to get to Europe and the countries they originate from are in varying states of anarchy.

There is no allowing, there is prevention, failure to prevent and death.

Last edited at Thu, Apr 23rd, 2015 15:15

>>39807364
Also to add, as I caught somewhere there used to be deals with Northern African nations to keep the people back, but with the fall of Khadaffi and the mess in some of the nations, those deals fell apart, so there's a larger influx of people seeking a safer haven right now.

>>39807360
Most of them reach Lampedusa which is a small island afaik.

My biggest gripe with taking them all in is that we have enough issues with the ones already here. If it was for a period then sure. But they're probably never going to go back to their old homes.

I may be the asshole. But I think we need to do something like what Australia is doing. Anypony arriving by boat will be sent back.

And then we need to provide help on the other side of the Mediterranean.

>>39807367

Yeah, that too.

>>39807368

Honestly at this rate they should be happy if they don't end up being "removed" alongside their legitimate cousins here, i mean i swear the stuff i see and hear on this account are reminiscent of post WWI France and Germany.

They don't realise the tension they're causing... and what such tensions have done in the past.

Last edited at Thu, Apr 23rd, 2015 15:22

>>39807370
Yeah. There has been a shift towards the right wing over the last 10 years or so.

It's pretty bad. But we did fuck up on the whole integration issue.

>>39807368
>>39807370
In ways it is stupid, but we've grown too soft in our decadence.

When we see a "humanitarian disaster" happening as a result of the immigration influx, we wanna go out and save those poor people.
Heck, if Immigrants in our country start to protest against the poor treatment they're getting, we're likely to give in and let them parade like they own our asses.
It wouldn't be the first time that hungerstrikes or whatever blackmail the government into agreeing to let people stay or provide people will financial aids.
I too, sadly have some aching humanitarian side that prevents me to be really cold towards them, even though my rational side opposes it.
(hence why a thread such as this arises)

>>39807372

Ah, that's just part of it for as far as i'm concerned, though it's a notable shift i'll give you that.

But that's probably the biggest issue there yes, especially in regards to religion.

We're not the monolithic christian state America is so we can't use their tactics in that regard... heck we're mostly atheistic, should we really revert back to christianity just because some other idiots stick to their religion as an excuse to tread on our values and even our laws?
I'd clearly say no to that, but i see very little support for finding an even semi-legitimate solution for that issue.

>>39807374

Most recent laws here actually undermine what you say at least in the netherlands, we're swinging towards a very heavy anti immigrant stance.

The most recent plan includes offering illegal immigrants the option to eat/drink, bathe and sleep in five cities for a temporary amount of time.

That might seem generous to some but considering that they're not allowed to do anything or even be anypony here that means they'll effectively be chased out with hunger, death and poverty save for where they're helped by charity, given that the plans become a reality.

(realise though that we're talking about illegal immigrants, so not asylum seekers who can't return or anything like that, generally just those who got in below the radar due to lacking proper reason or those who have been found to try to unjustly claim asylum in example)

Last edited at Thu, Apr 23rd, 2015 15:35

>>39807374
For some reason we have to save the world.
I for one am getting a bit tired of this idea.
And judging by local politics I'm not alone.

>>39807383
Ah well, I will allow you to mock Belgium on this.

Immigrants successfully sued the state, forcing the government to place them into vacation resorts or face a penalty financial compensation for each day they were not housed properly.

(not withstanding that we had to release a dangerous criminal because he became "allergic" to imprisonment a few days ago)

>>39807397

...Seriously what the fuck Belgium.

I mean i'd make jokes about this but this shit isn't funny.

>Son_i_am_disappoint.jpeg

>>39807404
I think the blame is really Europe's court for human rights which people here seem to make easy use of these days.
They overturn every action the state wants to impose.

>>39807408

...Yeah, fair enough, we just twist those into things worse than what was.

Which is literally what aforementioned law was.

If they want these bums to be paid for they'll find a nice and desolate spot in the freezing marshes of poland or something and finance it from their own salary.

Last edited at Thu, Apr 23rd, 2015 15:47

Austrialia has already fixed this problem.

>Dont give illegal boat immigrants asylum no matter what.

If you do that, they wont get on the boats in the first place, meaning they wont die in the water and may actually attempt to fix their own country instead of coming to yours.

>>39807413

But the dying is actually a benefit for the region, they reduce the overpopulation strain... sorta.
(note: Not actually serious... just fyi)

...Also Australia isn't quite as easily reachable nor quite as close to hells-on-earth.

Last edited at Thu, Apr 23rd, 2015 15:49

>>39807413
Got even better idea, don't let the boat near the shore no matter what.

Last edited at Thu, Apr 23rd, 2015 15:51

>>39807421

...We could also just sink the boat before it takes off of shore, that's the current idea anyway.

Less sad deaths to whine about.

Besides the coastline isn't exactly small.

>>39807424
Taking it out before it sets sail requires an action on foreign soil, my idea doesn't.

>>39807415
>Australia not being hell on earth.
>Year of our lord Two thousand and Fifteen.

No it's not.

>People die.
>Softhearted people start crying to let them into the country.
>Your country eventually turns to shit due to the high numbers of displaced people invading your country and refusing to integrate because their high numbers mean they dont have to.
>More people die during the interim as they also attempt a crossing.

As opposed to

>People die
>We tell the survivors "Fuck off we're full"
>Other people dont attempt a crossing because they'd be risking their lives for nothing.
>No death by boat.

>>39807421
Thats also what Australia does, they send boats back to where they came from.


>>39807424
>Besides the coastline isn't exactly small.
I believe the entirety of the EU has enough of a navy to police it adequately and prevent boats from crossing.

>>39807430

It's not like they've much to bring against it anyway, or even the capacity to detect such ships on their shore before we do.

>>39807431

I just find the idea rather limited... and while i'd love to believe you're right on that more boats also means more soggy hearts or profiteers willing to smuggle, and cracking down on that in turn might just end up more expensive than a lot of this immigrant crap is.

I'd rather tear the problem out root and branch and sink their ships before they can do shit.
It's not like there's anything in africa west of egypt that can even say no without being laughed at very loudly... well maybe Morocco but they've enough toasty neighbors to know not to.
(a monarchy's pretty good for that purpose)

Last edited at Thu, Apr 23rd, 2015 16:01

Lifeboat ethics.  [www.garretthardinsociety.org]

Last edited at Thu, Apr 23rd, 2015 16:05